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DPChallenge Forums >> General Discussion >> would u have taken the BLUE or the RED pill?
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Showing posts 26 - 50 of 57, (reverse)
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 11/27/2008 10:33:26 AM · #26
Originally posted by robs:
Any that believe in free & open government in western countries are kidding themselves.


That's a message that needs to be perpetuated indefinitely until action is taken to resolve it. What action you ask? Beats me.

We all think we're doing our part by going to poll booths and voting for a different colour but in the end we are all voting for the same status quo that has been around for centuries. We're good little robots that have been programmed to do nothing except consume, consume and consume some more.

11/27/2008 10:39:45 AM · #27
Originally posted by Jac:

We all think we're doing our part by going to poll booths and voting for a different colour but in the end we are all voting for the same status quo that has been around for centuries. We're good little robots that have been programmed to do nothing except consume, consume and consume some more.


So maybe there's a connection here. If we live in a blue state we take a blue pill, and if we live in a red state we take a red pill.

I knew it!
 11/27/2008 10:53:22 AM · #28
I'm a RED girl...I get bored with comfort, lol!
 11/27/2008 11:28:29 AM · #29
Originally posted by bergiekat:
I'm a RED girl...I get bored with comfort, lol!


Goes with being a redhead, eh?

R.
 11/27/2008 11:56:49 AM · #30
The less you know, the less you know what you don't know...

Without a doubt: Red
 11/27/2008 12:24:20 PM · #31
Blue, no doubt.
 11/27/2008 12:57:46 PM · #32
Originally posted by smichener:

But how 'bout this. Rational thinking
a)is consistent with objective reality

Agreed! :D
Originally posted by smichener:

b) helps one accomplish their goals

Depends on the goal. For example, if your goal is to demonstrate that "Intelligent Design" is a scientific theory on par with Natural Selection then rational thinking should keep you from accomplishing that goal.
Originally posted by smichener:

c) helps one maintain their physical well being

This makes sense to me with the rare exception where people make the rational choice that risking their well being is outweighed by ensuring the well being of others.
Originally posted by smichener:

d) helps one feel they way they want to

Sometimes, except for those times we have to do something that feels bad like surgery or chemotherapy for the chance of a better long term outlook.
Originally posted by smichener:

and e) helps one avoid or reduce conflict with people they care about.
Thoughts that don't meet one or more of these criteria might be considered irrational.

I don't know, people often avoid conflict irrationally and create bigger problems for themselves or for others in the process, but I think you are correct that it often helps to be rational. To use my analogy above, it's better to keep your eyes on the road to know what's really ahead than it is to talk to your passenger, eat your food & fiddle with your ipod while just believing you know what's ahead. ;)
 11/27/2008 01:02:30 PM · #33
I'm always questioning things.

I've never been one to just blindly follow along hoping for the best.

11/27/2008 11:02:20 PM · #34
to those who takes the red, please remember what morpheus said, "many of them (blue pill takers) are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system that they will fight to protect it". this especially holds true with those in positions of power, of influence. they would fight to keep people taking the blue.
 11/28/2008 12:53:23 AM · #35
I think it might be time to refill my red pill prescription.

The real issue isn't about knowing the truth, it's about the pain and suffering involved in learning the truth.
 11/28/2008 01:05:07 AM · #36
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
The real issue isn't about knowing the truth, it's about the pain and suffering involved in learning the truth.

The way I looked at it too. So as they say: No pain, no gain
 11/28/2008 01:49:38 AM · #37
Originally posted by TrollMan:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
The real issue isn't about knowing the truth, it's about the pain and suffering involved in learning the truth.

The way I looked at it too. So as they say: No pain, no gain


Not really, because the saying implies that the price in pain is only paid by those who get the gains. Unfortunately, life isn't like that and there's often collateral damage.
 11/28/2008 02:17:09 AM · #38
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by TrollMan:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
The real issue isn't about knowing the truth, it's about the pain and suffering involved in learning the truth.

The way I looked at it too. So as they say: No pain, no gain


Not really, because the saying implies that the price in pain is only paid by those who get the gains. Unfortunately, life isn't like that and there's often collateral damage.


yes, like suddenly learning that, albeit having an elder brother all your life and memories of growing up together, you were diagnosed few days ago with schizophrenia, and found out that your elder brother never even existed.
 11/28/2008 02:55:13 AM · #39
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by TrollMan:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
The real issue isn't about knowing the truth, it's about the pain and suffering involved in learning the truth.

The way I looked at it too. So as they say: No pain, no gain


Not really, because the saying implies that the price in pain is only paid by those who get the gains. Unfortunately, life isn't like that and there's often collateral damage.


It implies no such thing. The breakdown of the logic in the statement makes no such implication. It states simply "without pain there can be no gain", not "all pain brings gain".

R.
 11/28/2008 05:07:53 AM · #40
Wow, so many people popping those red pills. To be honest I would be happy at this moment in time just taking the BLUE pill. I am happy with my life as it is, good relationship, great kids, business doing better than expected for these financially turbulent times, just generally happy at the moment. Does it make one a weaker person to be happy with their lot in life?
 11/28/2008 05:14:26 AM · #41
I havent read through this whole thread so this may of been mentioned.. If you took the red pill and you found the truth was the same as what you was already living in (essentially the same as the blue pill) would all the ones who opted for the red-pill end up really depressed and feeling let down?

if its been mentioned sorry. but good thread (and good essay)
 11/28/2008 09:46:07 AM · #42
Years ago, in my intro to philosophy class, I had to read Descartes' Meditations (Summary and Explanation) which is where the idea of the Matrix began. The whole idea fascinated me and I realized that the only way to discover whether or not you were inside a Matrix or were controlled by an evil genie was to question everything and accept nothing at face value. This does not mean that you cannot be content with the life you have; on the contrary, your life can be richer and fuller with the accumulation of knowledge. Knowledge and truth needn't be painful; in fact, it can be life affirming.

The point of the matrix was similar to Plato's Allegory of the Cave. you can live in darkness with the status quo, blindly accepting what is fed you, or, you can seek the sun (knowledge) and really see the world for what it truly is.

the red pill. everytime.
 11/28/2008 09:53:54 AM · #43
Originally posted by dahkota:
...you can seek the sun (knowledge) and really see the world for what it truly is.


Courtenay, since you're usually pretty meticulous in your formulations, I'm gonna call you to task for the really/truly redundancy here :-)

On a more serious note, when I first saw "The Matrix" I immediately thought "Oh yeah, Descartes!": so I'm fascinated to hear that this is "where the idea of the matrix began" ΓΆ€” I take it you mean the authors explicitly used Descartes as a starting point? If so, is that documented anywhere? I mean, a blockbuster movie based on the meditations of Descartes, on the surface of it, sounds pretty improbable, so if it's true it's quite amazing; gives one renewed hope, in an odd sort of way.

R.

Message edited by author 2008-11-28 09:54:11.
 11/28/2008 10:16:15 AM · #44
I'd say, that in GENERAL, most Americans have chosen or would choose the blue pill. It's much too comfortable here to be bothered with the problems the rest of the world faces....

Before you tear this apart or flame me, please think about it :)

Message edited by author 2008-11-28 10:16:34.
 11/28/2008 10:59:28 AM · #45
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by dahkota:
...you can seek the sun (knowledge) and really see the world for what it truly is.


Courtenay, since you're usually pretty meticulous in your formulations, I'm gonna call you to task for the really/truly redundancy here :-)

On a more serious note, when I first saw "The Matrix" I immediately thought "Oh yeah, Descartes!": so I'm fascinated to hear that this is "where the idea of the matrix began" ΓΆ€” I take it you mean the authors explicitly used Descartes as a starting point? If so, is that documented anywhere? I mean, a blockbuster movie based on the meditations of Descartes, on the surface of it, sounds pretty improbable, so if it's true it's quite amazing; gives one renewed hope, in an odd sort of way.

R.


Ha - not enough coffee and too many meds. ;) Redundancy is good - like an echo...

The idea came from the thought experiment of the brain in a vat, which was a variation of Descartes evil genie (alternate reference). I found an article that ties the two together, but I cannot find any place where the writers specifically state that it is based on Descartes. Brain in a vat is a pretty basic thought experiment and taught in Phil100. I'm pretty sure they would have had access to the information (actually, I thought everyone knew, but it turns out my husband didn't - I learned something new today).
 11/28/2008 11:16:37 AM · #46
Originally posted by Mulder:
I'd say, that in GENERAL, most Americans have chosen or would choose the blue pill. It's much too comfortable here to be bothered with the problems the rest of the world faces....

Before you tear this apart or flame me, please think about it :)


I quite agree with you...

R.
 11/28/2008 11:24:21 AM · #47
Originally posted by dahkota:
The idea came from the thought experiment of the brain in a vat, which was a variation of Descartes evil genie (alternate reference). I found an article that ties the two together, but I cannot find any place where the writers specifically state that it is based on Descartes. Brain in a vat is a pretty basic thought experiment and taught in Phil100. I'm pretty sure they would have had access to the information (actually, I thought everyone knew, but it turns out my husband didn't - I learned something new today).


Speaking of the "brain in the vat" idea, for me the interesting things is that in a very real sense we ARE all "brains in a vat"; that is to say, all our interaction with what we perceive as the "real world" is done through the interface of an enormously complex computer, our brain. The "vat" is our body, the "brain" is our brain, and "we", the essence of us, our spirit or our soul, whatever we call the part of us that is aware, relies on this computer-brain for all its perceptions.

Or something like that.. :-)

R.
 11/28/2008 11:31:59 AM · #48
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Speaking of the "brain in the vat" idea, for me the interesting things is that in a very real sense we ARE all "brains in a vat"; that is to say, all our interaction with what we perceive as the "real world" is done through the interface of an enormously complex computer, our brain. The "vat" is our body, the "brain" is our brain, and "we", the essence of us, our spirit or our soul, whatever we call the part of us that is aware, relies on this computer-brain for all its perceptions.

Or something like that.. :-)
R.


Yes. But is your vat an insulator or a receptor?
 11/28/2008 11:34:04 AM · #49
Originally posted by dahkota:
Yes. But is your vat an insulator or a receptor?


The details remain to be worked out :-) Basic theory: "I think, therefore I am" is still valid, but I can't be sure about you :-)

R.
 11/28/2008 12:24:46 PM · #50
I'll hold on for the purple pill.
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