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11/24/2008 10:44:48 PM · #26 |
I'd echo the idea of setting a budget and then letting him pick. It's a personal choice and there are lots of factors. If he's been playing a while he probably knows his likes and dislikes and what he's after. Amps are a huge part of the sound he might want to get as are effects.
I've played for over 30 years and when my son wanted to start he insisted he have an electric despite my suggesting he start with my acoustic 72 Martin D35. He's an accomplished violinist. Anyways he picked up an Epiphone SG, which is a solid entry level electric. After having that for a few months he decided he wanted to go acoustic and learn some of the finer skills of playing. Anything you can do to encourage him to really learn to play the instrument, and avoid succumbing to the image of rock star, will enhance his lifelong enjoyment of making guitar music.
Someday he might even consider a Gibson 335 and then you'll be laying out some really big money. |
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11/24/2008 10:44:55 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by fldave:
(Nice gold-top,  JimiRose! |
So sweet...
Message edited by author 2008-11-24 22:45:32. |
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11/24/2008 10:52:56 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by Man_Called_Horse:
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Here's a clip of David Gilmour with a Strat, playing the solo of the song Time.
It will answer ALL of your questions regarding sound.
Amps are also important. The Fender Blues Junior is excellent, for an inexpensive all tube option. They're small with good power and I've been seeing them used live by many top names.
Also look into Ibanez and Epiphones for some less expensive but excellent guitars. |
THAT is the sound my son wants.
What is it? how do I talk inteligently about the guitar? For my $1000-1500 budjet, what don't I need? |
Your budget is perfect for what he wants but keep in mind you don't need to spend that much.
This is easy. Walk into a Guitar Center or whatever good sized guitar store is in you area and tell the salesman your looking for a guitar set-up that sounds like David Gilmour. He's known far and wide for his guitar tone and I'd bet every guitar store will have what will get you there AND almost anybody selling guitars will hook you right up. They'll also hook you up with an amp that matches his sound.
You can pick up amazing Stratocsaters, new or used for under or around $1000...and for much much less.
A good Fender will also hold it's value pretty well so if he wants to sell or trade for another he can get a fair price.
eta:I agree with everyones idea of inexpensive starter set-ups. Ibanez for example, makes some killer entry level guitars for half the money.
Here's a dude doing the same Time solo on an Ibanez with a similar tone.
When you go shopping stress to the salesman that he's a beginner and that he likes the "Gilmour Santana Sound" and they will do you right. $1000 will be way, way more than enough and you will get a quality package, at that rate.
Here's a different kid doing Comfortably Numb on an Ibanez. Go through the links on the right and you'll see a bunch of solos by different artists done on any number of guitars. It's fun to watch, imo.
Message edited by author 2008-11-24 23:21:49. |
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11/24/2008 11:03:46 PM · #29 |
[thumb]741788[/thumb]
I just sold my hot rodded '78 a few months ago. I bought it for $350 in '85 and sold it for $900. It would have fetched more had it been bone stock.  pawdrixis correct that a well made guitar, be it Gibson or Fender, will hold its value well. Epiphones, Squire Strats, and look-a-likes do not hold value nearly as well. |
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11/24/2008 11:17:33 PM · #30 |
Big guitar nut here!
Can't believe this hasn't been suggested yet but you need to look up schecter. What he wants is a Schecter c-1 classic. It should be about 750 bucks which leaves you with enough money for and b-52 Tube combo amp. He wan't tube not solid state. With that set up he will be be able to tackle every style you listed with ease. It is a set neck with a mahogany body. The notes ring long and clear trust me. It is also a dual humbucker design for thick tones. He will not be disappointed. Not to mention it's one of the most beautiful guitar out there. The vine of life fretboard really sets it apart from other guitars. That guitar is perfect for him trust me.
Here is my set up for him.
GUITAR
Schecter C-1 Classic
AMP
They also make a 2 speaker version of this amp for 200 bucks more but trust me these things are LOUD
B-52 at 112
I have the full stack big brother of that amp and love it!
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11/24/2008 11:23:12 PM · #31 |
Re Schecter c-1 classic... nice axe, but most kids don't want hardtails (vs. a Strat style trem or Floyd Rose) and they are not as abundant as Gibson / Fender.
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11/24/2008 11:30:40 PM · #32 |
what is the differance from a hard tail and a soft tail?
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11/25/2008 01:47:29 AM · #33 |
If I'm not mistaken it's whether the guitar has a tremelo "whammy bar" set up on it or not. I play just hardtails because it's harder to get the strings to stay in tune on a soft tail without the Floyd rose set up and I won't use the floyd rose due to the fear of breaking a string. You need an allen wrench on stage to free the string to even be tuned (at least on the guitar I tried anyways)
A Floyd rose tremelo isn't advised unless he sticks with one tuning or REALLY wants a whammy bar. It's pretty popular in guitar now days to use drop D tuning and tune back to standard as needed. floyd rose basically locks down the strings so you can whammy bar the heck out of them and they stay in tune. The downside is of course it takes longer to tune.
In all honesty though I think you should take a trip to guitar center with him and make him play every guitar in the store. He will know what he wants once it hits his hands. I remember when I found my first guitar in the store it was an ibanez... I know own 3 ibanez's my favorite is a baritone which I love to death. |
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11/25/2008 04:02:14 AM · #34 |
Some more video of `that sound` you are after, this time on a Gibson SG.
Comfortably Numb on SG
and on a Les Paul
LP Version.
Message edited by author 2008-11-25 04:02:57. |
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11/25/2008 08:44:46 AM · #35 |
Originally posted by Man_Called_Horse:
what is the differance from a hard tail and a soft tail? |
Hard tail is a guitar with out a whammy/tremolo bar that normally would have one...like a Strat which commonly is with. My Strat has a whammy that I removed (a screw-on) which a lot of people opt to do.
BTW, I'm assuming this will be his first guitar to learn on?
Keep in mind there are many beginner packages out there and if you want something nicer you can always move up a step or two. You can get that Santana, Pink Floyd sound with any of them, as those players on youtube show.
My honest opinion is spending a $1000 on a guitar for a beginner might be overkill. Do something modest but nice and see if he likes playing. There are literally thousands of great guitars out there at all price ranges and it's hard to go wrong unless you buy something super cheap.
About 4 years ago I bought my nephew a Fender Squire Stratocaster with an small Fender practice amp, which he just started playing this summer and it's been working out fine. It probably cost me around $400 both guitar and amp, with cables and extra strings etc. Nothing wrong with that.
Good Luck.
Message edited by author 2008-11-25 08:53:46. |
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11/25/2008 09:54:01 AM · #36 |
I thought about this some more and I am even more convinced that it would be best to let your son pick and choose. He has to be comfortable with the guitar, He can always adapt to something less comfortable, but it is so much better to get one that just feels right in your hands. If the guitar feels right but doesn't have that exact tone he can always change pick-up's and or strings and adjust amp and effects pedals to tweak the sound to what he wants.
You still have a month before xmas, drive him to the music store let him plug a few guitars into an amp. This will make sure he gets what he wants and you take the easy way out. It is a win win.
While you have him there talk him into checking out some gibsons SG, Les Paul or even an Explorer.
Also just wondering, you said this is an advancement level, assume this would be his 2nd guitar? What is he playing right now? |
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11/25/2008 10:14:43 AM · #37 |
Originally posted by Bugzeye:
Also just wondering, you said this is an advancement level, assume this would be his 2nd guitar? What is he playing right now? |
I am not sure of the name, but it is a cheap electric guitar made in China.
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11/25/2008 10:55:22 AM · #38 |
American Standard Strat
This one is the HSS which has the humbucker at the bridge so you can get the sustain and growl of the Les Paul and has coil tapping to switch the humbucker into a switchable single coil.
You can't get the classic Gilmore sound or Jimi sound or Stevie sound without a strat there is just something unmistakable about the tone of that guitar.
Just make sure it is an American made strat which ever model you buy. Good luck and what a great gift. |
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11/25/2008 02:31:06 PM · #39 |
Here's a Fender American Standard Stratocaster which is basically the classic design with some modifications, most noticeable would be in the bridge. It's a Fender made in the USA and for an upgrade, you can't go wrong.
Like people have suggested...go out and play a few...or a few hundred.
Interesting thing is that Gibsons for example, could put out 15 Les Pauls in a row with consecutive serial numbers and each one will feel and play differently than the one before. When I was looking into buying a Gibson ES-335, I had to play at least 30 or more over a few months time to find one I liked. Some of the necks had a gooey laquer finish, which prevented your hand from sliding smoothly up and down the neck, which I though was crazy for guitars priced between $1500-2500. I found the same problem with the Gibson SG's but when you hit on a great one, they're hard to beat.
You may also look into getting a Modeling Amp which is an amplifier that can mimick or match the sounds of other classic amplifiers in one package. I use one by Roland called a Micro Cube which is perfect for my apartment. Within a little box at 20w, I have a Marshall, a Fender Tube amp, a Roland Jazz Chorus, an Eddie Van Halen Buddha Amp and a few more plus 6 guitar effects built right in. They aren't as accurate as the originals sounds they are modeled after but they are very close and you're not locked into one sound. Kinda like having 20 Amplifiers in one and some companies do an fantastic job of simulating the sounds...occasionally they sound almost exact.
The LINE 6 Spider Series are worth looking into as an option for power and incredible versatility. A purist however would probably choose all tube clasics, like a Mesa Boogie, Fender (Deluxe, Twin Reverb, Blue Junior), VOX or a Marshall.
Message edited by author 2008-11-25 19:19:08. |
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11/25/2008 10:38:28 PM · #40 |
I went really cheap with $200 package just to start learning. So far it is all I need. Build quality so so but being that I'm clumsy and bump my guitar into walls and things I'm not worried much about damaging it. Getting better though... (and better at playing too)
//www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8448254&st=electric+guitar&type=product&id=1183767507527
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11/25/2008 10:53:11 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by Nikolai1024:
I went really cheap with $200 package just to start learning.
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Thanks, but, as I have said in two other posts in this thread, my son is is climbing to the next level of quitar playing, and finding an upscale, mildly expensive, does all quitar is what I am after.
Thanks to those that have given me some ideas.
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11/25/2008 11:29:04 PM · #42 |
| I'm no expert, just a hack. My original thought when seeing this thread was my cheap side, it's a kid, get a beater Mex Strat, it's fine. When he's good he'll know what he wants. The oppostite of my cheap side is my romantic side, I see the year 2050, a newly middle-aged man opening a case and pulling out a '08 American Strat his Dad gave him for Christmas back then. Don't get much cooler than that. I like romance. [Also, Gibson vs. Fender = Canon vs. Nikon, no difference] |
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11/26/2008 12:59:03 AM · #43 |
| But these go to eleven... |
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11/26/2008 01:14:05 AM · #44 |
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11/27/2008 12:03:06 AM · #45 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
But these go to eleven... |
Eleven. Exactly. One louder.
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11/27/2008 02:55:53 AM · #46 |
Originally posted by Tez:
The wood makes the biggest difference on the sound. Fenders use ash/alder/poplar which is a bit bright, zingy sounds, good for general purpose stuff but to me, a bit thin and lacking in muscle. Gibsons, PRS et al use Mahogany as it provides a much warmer, richer, smoother tone that I prefer. |
Since solid-body electric guitars produce sound by having the moving (metal) strings distort the magnetic field in the pickups, so long as the body is rigid enough to keep the parts from moving relative to each other (no balsa guitar bodies!), the wood should make no difference in the sound -- there is no resonance factor as there would be in an acoustic guitar. Probably the biggest difference the wood makes is the weight -- I have a Peavy with an ash body which weighs (what feels like) a ton, and needs an extra-wide (bass guitar type) strap to keep from hurting a shoulder. A friend of mine has an Epiphone electric which weighs less than half as much ... |
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11/27/2008 03:32:15 AM · #47 |
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11/27/2008 06:02:24 AM · #48 |
For that Floyd/Santana sound you will be looking at either the Yamaha SG2000/3000 (I owned a very nice SG2000 they are truely beautiful guitars that will hold value) or, to be honest, A Les paul. I used to own many guitars including a few Gibsons but my all time favorite Les Paul I had was actually a 1978 Tokai Les Paul reborn Gold Top That I paid $80 for in Japan and recently sold here in UK for $1000 (traded it for a brand new Fender Precision 50's reissue Bass)
That 'FAT' sound you get from humbuckers, the thin 'stringy' sound comes from single coil. The Telecaster IMO is a Blues machine and my favorite guitar Fender ever made. The Telecaster was in fact the first electric guitar Fender made (I'm sure) but the Strat has legendary status of cause from many talents like J Hendrix, Eric Clapton, to quote a couple.
Either way it goes remember, it's the man behind the guitar that makes the tune. Happy shopping
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