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10/18/2008 07:23:13 PM · #1 |
So I just shot a soccer game for my school's newspaper, the Echo -- first time I've ever shot sports in my life (well, except for once when I tried to shoot a football game with the nifty fifty). Was wondering what y'all thought of these shots. (Just five of my best -- will ETA more later)
//picasaweb.google.com/macilwen/TUVsIWU#
Message edited by author 2008-10-18 19:23:56. |
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10/18/2008 09:11:33 PM · #2 |
OK, here's a bump and several bajillion more pics (on Flickr this time)...please tell me what you think!!
I realize the lens I was shooting with is horrible at aberration. It's not mine!!
Flickr link
ETA some of the better ones (note thumbs point to Flickr not DPC):
Message edited by author 2008-10-18 21:34:45.
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10/18/2008 10:11:39 PM · #3 |
OK I may regret this as I usually do. Somehow I have a great way of coming across in this forum. But anyway here goes.
Honestly...........for a first time they are OK. But there are major issues with just about every shot there. Be it Horizons, Shadows, exposure, lack of action, cut off limbs, and one.........well maybe it was an attempt at art, but this is sports not an art gallery. The art in the sport is the players in action. :D (Please notice the smiley!)
Anyway, After looking over some of the images, and checking the Exif data I have some suggestions for you. And I'm certainly no soccer expert, having worked for the paper for 3 years, I have shot 4-5 games. My first one this year was last week. Look here for what I submitted to the editor. Some I wouldnt have submitted but the editor wanted a couple of shots of a few players and those were the best I had of them.
Suggestions, if you are going to shoot in AV priority get that lens open, F7.1 is not a sports setting. And if you are going to dial down EV by 2/3 make sure you are doing it to prevent blowing out the faces, who cares about the uniforms. With white uniforms usually you need to lose some of the highlights to get good detail in the faces. Find you a spot on the field to shoot from, meter for the faces and set it to manual if the light isnt changing, if it is, then go to AV but dial down or up to get the faces exposed for and be prepared to change that depending on where the players are facing. Three things matter in a sports shot Faces, ball, and action(preferably peak). IMHO you need at least two to submit a shot to an editor. The third makes it an outstanding shot usually. Work for peak action shots. Shoot tight, open the lens, and get the exposure for the face. Anyway
Matt
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10/18/2008 10:31:21 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by MattO:
OK I may regret this as I usually do. Somehow I have a great way of coming across in this forum. But anyway here goes.
Honestly...........for a first time they are OK. But there are major issues with just about every shot there. Be it Horizons, Shadows, exposure, lack of action, cut off limbs, and one.........well maybe it was an attempt at art, but this is sports not an art gallery. The art in the sport is the players in action. :D (Please notice the smiley!)
Anyway, After looking over some of the images, and checking the Exif data I have some suggestions for you. And I'm certainly no soccer expert, having worked for the paper for 3 years, I have shot 4-5 games. My first one this year was last week. Look here for what I submitted to the editor. Some I wouldnt have submitted but the editor wanted a couple of shots of a few players and those were the best I had of them.
Suggestions, if you are going to shoot in AV priority get that lens open, F7.1 is not a sports setting. And if you are going to dial down EV by 2/3 make sure you are doing it to prevent blowing out the faces, who cares about the uniforms. With white uniforms usually you need to lose some of the highlights to get good detail in the faces. Find you a spot on the field to shoot from, meter for the faces and set it to manual if the light isnt changing, if it is, then go to AV but dial down or up to get the faces exposed for and be prepared to change that depending on where the players are facing. Three things matter in a sports shot Faces, ball, and action(preferably peak). IMHO you need at least two to submit a shot to an editor. The third makes it an outstanding shot usually. Work for peak action shots. Shoot tight, open the lens, and get the exposure for the face. Anyway
Matt |
Yeah I definitely know I messed up the settings, lol, I discussed that with my editor. Thanks so much for the advice -- I certainly look forward to trying again!
Your shots look great -- love the action.
It would figure that my school's team has white uniforms...I need to figure out how to meter for those correctly, you're right. I think I switched to -1/3 halfway through and most of those turned out better.
Thanks again -- I'll keep your advice in mind!
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10/18/2008 11:04:10 PM · #5 |
I'm not very good at sports either...but pics come out good enough for the local paper. When the lighting is good...the pics are very good...but here at home games, the lighting is horrible!
Taken 10-17-08
 football 1
 football 2
 football 3
Message edited by author 2008-10-18 23:06:51.
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10/18/2008 11:14:58 PM · #6 |
I'm trying to work the sports photography learning curve, too.
After two years of abysmal attempts to capture cheerleaders in bad indoor lighting with a sub-standard flash and a slooooooow lens, this direct sunlight stuff seems pretty awesome.
So here are three from the ones I took this morning.
[thumb]731929[/thumb] [thumb]731930[/thumb] [thumb]731932[/thumb]
Have at 'em, I'll take all the help you'll give, folks.
ETA:MY KID! [thumb]731951[/thumb]
Message edited by author 2008-10-18 23:53:13.
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10/19/2008 01:45:38 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
I'm trying to work the sports photography learning curve, too.
After two years of abysmal attempts to capture cheerleaders in bad indoor lighting with a sub-standard flash and a slooooooow lens, this direct sunlight stuff seems pretty awesome.
So here are three from the ones I took this morning.
[thumb]731929[/thumb] [thumb]731930[/thumb] [thumb]731932[/thumb]
Have at 'em, I'll take all the help you'll give, folks.
ETA:MY KID! [thumb]731951[/thumb] |
A couple key pieces of advice for you is..........
Get out of Auto mode, cameras are smart, but they are also book smart not street smart. Dont let it decide what is best for your photos. Go AV in changing light or full manual in consistent light. Set a Manual WB too if needed. Expose for the face, set it and forget it in constant light. Looks like these were shot in pretty consistant lighting. Maybe mid morning to mid day. Set your lens at 5.6 since thats as wide as it goes, set your shutter speed to get exposure. Lower ISO as low or high as needed to keep your shutter speed where you need it.
Next thing, get down on your butt, knees, whatever to get low and change the perspective. This can also help to clean up your backgrounds, or sometimes makes it worse, this is where a faster lens IE F2.8 or F4 will help blur them out.
Final thought shoot tighter and try to shoot peak action. You have slower FPS and AF then most sports camera, so you need to anticipate the game and the players.
Overall I'd say you are getting the hang of it. But you need to invest in some gear to go to the next level. Not saying it cant be done with your gear........but its not going to be easy or without headaches.
Matt
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10/19/2008 09:02:35 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by MattO:
A couple key pieces of advice for you is.......... |
WAIT!!!! Let me get a pen!.....8>)
Originally posted by MattO:
Get out of Auto mode, cameras are smart, but they are also book smart not street smart. |
Okay....I shot these in the "Sports Mode" in Auto....It seems to do a decent job of stop action.
Originally posted by MattO:
Dont let it decide what is best for your photos. Go AV in changing light or full manual in consistent light. |
Work with me here, you've got someone who really never bothered to learn this stuff before......is that aperture priority?
Originally posted by MattO:
Set a Manual WB too if needed. Expose for the face, set it and forget it in constant light. Looks like these were shot in pretty consistant lighting. Maybe mid morning to mid day. |
Okay.....like for direct sun with this 10:30 to 12:00 noon game with no clouds, right?
The light was VERY consistent throughout the game.
Originally posted by MattO:
Set your lens at 5.6 since thats as wide as it goes, set your shutter speed to get exposure. Lower ISO as low or high as needed to keep your shutter speed where you need it. |
Can I shoot in aperture priority and let the processor select the shutter?
I would kind of assume that the faster the shutter, the better stop action and cleaner image, right?
I was getting good speeds even with this slow, light-sucking lens.....my other lens was way worse.
Originally posted by MattO:
Next thing, get down on your butt, knees, whatever to get low and change the perspective. This can also help to clean up your backgrounds, or sometimes makes it worse, this is where a faster lens IE F2.8 or F4 will help blur them out. |
DUDE!!! I'm OLD, and my knees are junk! Do you know what you're asking???? I may not be able to get up! LOL!!!
Seriously, I never thought of that. I am 6'4" and I guess I do kind of look down.
As to the faster lens, I have pretty much decided on the venerable Nikkor 80-200 F/2.8 when I can sneak the money out of the cookie jar, but I kind of have to actually get some of the work I do paid for before I spend the money......kind of the age-old dilemma.....I need the equipment to do the job, but I can't spend the money 'til the job starts to pay.
Originally posted by MattO:
Final thought shoot tighter and try to shoot peak action. You have slower FPS and AF then most sports camera, so you need to anticipate the game and the players. |
Back to.....equipment comes with paying work......LOL!!!
I'll practice, you've given me MUCH to work with....thanks!
Originally posted by MattO:
Overall I'd say you are getting the hang of it. But you need to invest in some gear to go to the next level. Not saying it cant be done with your gear........but its not going to be easy or without headaches.
Matt |
Seriously, I *really* appreciate your taking the time to pass this advice along. I had a ball doing this and I have two more games before the kid's done for the fall season.
I'll be back!......(Cue Ahhhnold as Terminator!)
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10/19/2008 09:59:33 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by MattO:
A couple key pieces of advice for you is.......... |
WAIT!!!! Let me get a pen!.....8>) |
Might want some paper as well, at your age you may want to refer back to them time to time when you forget. :D
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by MattO:
Get out of Auto mode, cameras are smart, but they are also book smart not street smart. |
Okay....I shot these in the "Sports Mode" in Auto....It seems to do a decent job of stop action. |
It does do a decent job of stopping the action, but you cannot control your Depth of field. Some of the shots have a bit of a blur to the background, others I can see 3 kids stacked 5 feet apart each in focus. Some will have to do with aperture some will have to do with focal length.
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by MattO:
Dont let it decide what is best for your photos. Go AV in changing light or full manual in consistent light. |
Work with me here, you've got someone who really never bothered to learn this stuff before......is that aperture priority? |
Sorry I forget there are Nikon shooters who shoots sports. :P Yes Aperture priority.
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by MattO:
Set a Manual WB too if needed. Expose for the face, set it and forget it in constant light. Looks like these were shot in pretty consistant lighting. Maybe mid morning to mid day. |
Okay.....like for direct sun with this 10:30 to 12:00 noon game with no clouds, right?
The light was VERY consistent throughout the game. |
Anytime the light is consistent, cloudy, rainy, dark, full sun. Just remember to set it so you can get exposure on the face. I occasionally chimp(yes some people will admit it!) to check my Histogram and to check my exposure on the faces. Even bright sunlight will change depending on the angle. Note: I have the brightness on my LCD set to match my calibrated monitor. I dont use it for colors or sharpness(although an obvious OoF is easy to tell)
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by MattO:
Set your lens at 5.6 since thats as wide as it goes, set your shutter speed to get exposure. Lower ISO as low or high as needed to keep your shutter speed where you need it. |
Can I shoot in aperture priority and let the processor select the shutter?
I would kind of assume that the faster the shutter, the better stop action and cleaner image, right?
I was getting good speeds even with this slow, light-sucking lens.....my other lens was way worse. |
Yes, in variable light or in constant light if you arent comfortable using full manual you can. Just be sure to keep an eye on the shutter speeds it sets to make sure your ISO is high or low enough. Also remember that extremely bright(sun-clouds-bleacher) or dark(tree lines-buildings-hillsides in the shade) backgrounds can fool your metering. This is why I suggest full manual. But if you are consistantly shooting with the same background dial up or down your exposure compensation to get what you need. Problem is most fields depending on the day will have areas of bright sun and areas of dark shadows to shoot against. This again is an area where getting familiar with where you are and what works and what doesnt work shooting there. So pick your backgrounds and your shooting position carefully to match your settings if not full manual.
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by MattO:
Next thing, get down on your butt, knees, whatever to get low and change the perspective. This can also help to clean up your backgrounds, or sometimes makes it worse, this is where a faster lens IE F2.8 or F4 will help blur them out. |
DUDE!!! I'm OLD, and my knees are junk! Do you know what you're asking???? I may not be able to get up! LOL!!!
Seriously, I never thought of that. I am 6'4" and I guess I do kind of look down.
As to the faster lens, I have pretty much decided on the venerable Nikkor 80-200 F/2.8 when I can sneak the money out of the cookie jar, but I kind of have to actually get some of the work I do paid for before I spend the money......kind of the age-old dilemma.....I need the equipment to do the job, but I can't spend the money 'til the job starts to pay. |
I have a bad knee and a bad back from years of working as a line technician on cars. I have slipped disks in my back and tore up my knee. I know the feeling, but its something that sets you apart from the PWaC. How many of those do you see parents lined up all standing shooting down at their kids, doesnt matter if its a toddler a new born, or an older kid playing sports. Viewer perspective is important. I want different angles, either low looking up(meaning laying on your belly if needed for the little kids) or I want to be way up high looking down.
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by MattO:
Final thought shoot tighter and try to shoot peak action. You have slower FPS and AF then most sports camera, so you need to anticipate the game and the players. |
Back to.....equipment comes with paying work......LOL!!!
I'll practice, you've given me MUCH to work with....thanks!
Originally posted by MattO:
Overall I'd say you are getting the hang of it. But you need to invest in some gear to go to the next level. Not saying it cant be done with your gear........but its not going to be easy or without headaches.
Matt |
Seriously, I *really* appreciate your taking the time to pass this advice along. I had a ball doing this and I have two more games before the kid's done for the fall season.
I'll be back!......(Cue Ahhhnold as Terminator!) |
There are two things to consider when you decide you want to shoot sports. Do I want to be able to watch my kids play sports and share their glory when they succeed and also their heartbreaks when they lose, take snapshots to remember the time we spent together. Or do I want to seriously capture the events taking place in front of me and spend alot of money doing it. Missing whats really happening with my child but capturing moments for others and myself to look back on later.
I really dont think you can do both. You can get into the game as a parent and you can get into the game as a photographer. I dont think you can really do both. To really capture a game you need to concentrate on the game as much as the players do. You have to anticipate what will happen and be one step ahead of it, thats why they make fast cameras and lens, so that photographers like me who cant always do that, can still cover an assignment and usually get the decisive shot. Anyway we have high jacked the thread probably more then we needed too, sorry to the OP.
Matt
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