Upside Down Scores - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF 75-300mm f/4.0-5.6 II

10/18/2008 04:13:34 AM · #101

Even as someone part of DPCO-111 season I suspect that the voting is being skewed heavily by some tactical voting and this would account for why there is next to no comments. I have a good image this time out that is receiving a pretty good score (in fact it's a really good score for this challenge looking at this thread) so this is not a sour grapes post, but even so getting some high votes and then batches of 3s and 4s only strengthens my suspicions that this is going on.

Our team discusses our images before entry but no one votes on those images, most of us do not even vote on the whole challenge as we have entered it (personally I feel this enables me to vote on images 100% without bias).

What I believe is happening is down to the way the scoring system for the Olympics works (this is not to put down the efforts of Dirt_Diver or HawkeyeLonewolf because they are doing a stirling job) but it is nevertheless very easy for players to compress the effects of a poor weeks entries if they so wished by selectively voting on the remaining images. Thus ruining the whole event (for those genuinely taking part) and perhaps more importantly in the long run could be damaging the website.

Scores and score threads have always been heavily discussed in the forums so it is obviously a problem that has been around for a long time, but looking back over this last few weeks results there seems to be similar average scores to normal, which actually surprises me as I thought that would be lower (although if my suspicions are correct this would probably not be the case), in effect though the averages should really be higher as you would expect entries from the DPCO crowd to be of a higher caliber than normal as the discussion between the team leads people to try new things to improve their shots and the QC of images gets tougher.

These are just my opinions and I am pretty sure some other people believe this is going on too from reading between the lines in some other threads.

To keep the thread on topic:

Votes: 120
Views: 203
Avg Vote: 6.2083
Comments: 3
Favorites: 1

ETA: Spelling

Message edited by author 2008-10-18 05:08:28.

Starbanana

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

10/18/2008 12:00:40 PM · #102

Originally posted by bobonacus:

Originally posted by Starbanana:
I have made comments on anything i voted low so you all know why. Apologies if anyone disagrees and would like to slap me but you wanted comments so I have tried to make them : )

What about if you didn't leave me a comment and I still want to slap you ;)

Beware, I will poke you in the eye with a breadstick tonight. Upside down just to fit with the theme!

ShutterPug

Canon EOS-6D

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 II

10/18/2008 01:53:54 PM · #103

I too am a part of the DPCO-III. I also suspect some of the people may be voting high on their team members entries that they may otherwise not score so high on. I hope this is not true, but something tells me it is. IF that is the case, SC is supposed to be on the lookout for unfair voting and I hope they are paying especially close attention to those involved with DPCO.

Purple_Girl

Canon EOS-1100D

10/18/2008 04:37:16 PM · #104

124 votes and I finally got a comment.

cutout

Canon EOS-20D

10/18/2008 07:12:50 PM · #105

125 votes
and zilch comments?
where did i go wrong?

faidoi

Pentax K10D

Pentax DA 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 AF

10/18/2008 07:13:45 PM · #106

Votes: 130
Views: 265
Avg Vote: 5.3538
Comments: 6

Yo_Spiff

Olympus OM-D E-M5 Mark III

Olympus 12-100mm f/4.0 M.Zuiko ED IS PRO

10/18/2008 08:37:54 PM · #107

I'm hitting a new high for this one. As with most of you, no comments. I'll try to leave some when I finish my own voting.

Votes: 126
Views: 175
Avg Vote: 4.2302
Comments: 0

Jessi

Mamiya 645Pro TL

Mamiya 80mm f/2.8

10/18/2008 09:16:15 PM · #108

Votes: 122
Views: 201
Avg Vote: 4.8197
Comments: 2
Favorites: 0
Wish Lists: 0
Updated: 10/18/08 09:10 pm

A couple o' comments. Was really expecting to a lot better, I'm proud of my shot.

Not voting because of DPCO, I know myself well enough to know that I wouldn't be objective.

k9logic

Nikon D300

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 85mm f/1.4G

10/19/2008 12:32:58 AM · #109

133 votes and I finally got a comment! And it was a nice one too. :-) Thanks to all who are taking the time to make comments. It really does make a difference.

Message edited by author 2008-10-19 01:09:02.

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM

10/19/2008 04:32:37 AM · #110

I wont be voting on this one as I said above, but I will try and make time later today to go through and comment on as many as I can.

I'm going through now, I am really disappointed in how many of these are just straight rotates / flips of normal images, if I offend anyone sorry but you asked for comments ;) What artistic merit is there in purely rotating a straight image that has no element of upside down other than the rotate / flip? I can see why some of the scores reports have been low to be honest, I wonder if a lot of people are just rushing shots and shoehorning them in purely for the DPCO-III and then moaning about low scores without actually thinking about the validity of the shot they have entered!?!

Message edited by author 2008-10-19 09:12:24.

Ragga2000

Canon EOS-5D Mark IV

10/19/2008 09:30:55 AM · #111

Originally posted by Mark-A:

I am to a team member in the OlympicIII and I have to agree with you on strange scoring since it started... Very low scores but they seam to be low all over the challenge....

I have to say though about simply turning a picture upside down, that can be tricky! You have to think about how it will turn out and some really look great doing "just" that as you say.

My/our team members donÂ´t vote on each other pictures as we know that they belong to our team and some of us donÂ´t vote at all in challenges they take part in although I trust all my team-members to vote fair although they have a picture in the challenge... I also have to say that I find it strange if people want to cheat in a challenge like this just to get a better score!! :o)

But, my picture is doing good in this one, my best in this Olympic competition so I am happy BUT it jumps a lot, telling me that I am getting a lot of low scores in between but hey! That is life, nothing we can do about other peopleÂ´s voting system....

I really enjoy this site and hope those people giving low scores to nice images just to drag them down will not ruin the good spirit around here...

Olympus OM-D E-M5 Mark III

10/19/2008 01:16:51 PM · #112

Hope I haven't upset too many people and I hope also that some of what I have said will help here and there :) I have tried to be honest and also give constructive criticsm in every shot although some were a bit short, others were quite long. It has taken a couple of hours to do them all so no flaming me please ;)

You have commented on 169 of 170 images (99%) in this challenge.

Good luck all.

ETA: Actually grossly underestimated that, it's been 4+ hours according to my disgruntled wife! ;)

Message edited by author 2008-10-19 13:19:07.

Yo_Spiff

Olympus 12-100mm f/4.0 M.Zuiko ED IS PRO

10/19/2008 01:41:16 PM · #113

Originally posted by Mark-A:

It has taken a couple of hours to do them all so no flaming me please ;)

Just because you mentioned it...

Originally posted by Mark-A:

You have commented on 169 of 170 images (99%) in this challenge.

Well, since there is only one comment on my entry now, I know it's yours in spite of the baghead.
Thanks for the commenting effort. I know it takes a lot of time to provide thought out comments on everything. Don't forget to post in the 100% comments club so you can get some bling for your profile page!

Message edited by author 2008-10-19 13:43:23.

Jessi

Mamiya 645Pro TL

Mamiya 80mm f/2.8

10/19/2008 01:43:59 PM · #114

Originally posted by Mark-A:

Yeah, I'm suffering for that -- mine's flipped but it's flipped validly....but I think most people aren't realizing that.

Damzel

Sanyo Xacti CG6

10/19/2008 05:44:29 PM · #115

Originally posted by Mark-A:

Well my lil bag-head commenter...lol..I would like to say that my image is not only flipped in the actual shot from camera, but it is also a reflection... I kept my image the way it was cause I want people to really look and try to figure out what is what and which way is up...lol because it isn't just a straight reflection from a waters edge...I thought it was really unique... hope others do to....lol but thanks for the good comments and knowledge for next time.

~D

Purple_Girl

Canon EOS-1100D

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 II

10/19/2008 07:26:57 PM · #116

I just went from 5.1214 to 5.1127 in 2 votes, meanies.

bobnospum

Sony Alpha a99 II

Tamron AF 70-200mm f/2.8 Di LD IF Macro Lens for Sony

10/20/2008 02:14:49 PM · #117

Originally posted by Mark-A:

I guess that is one way to look at it and you are of course entitled to your opinion. However, I am pretty sure that comments are intended to help us get better as photographers, rather than to allow you to vent at how frustrated you are with our poor photography skills.

Baghead Comment I assume to be yours:

"I can't even comment on anymore flipped / rotated images that add nothing to the shot, sorry there's just far too many of them and I really do not feel there is any artistic merit in taking an image and just flipping it to put it in a challenge :( "

If you really that fed up and disappointed with us, you are more than welcome to skip leaving comments in the future. If you insist on punishing yourself more in the future, might I suggest you say "Cool idea, but the subject does not really gain a lot from turning it upside-down. Subjects such as X or Y would have worked better". It says the same thing but lacks the scathing harshness and actuallly provides the "asked for" contructive critism.

Tamron AF 70-200mm f/2.8 Di LD IF Macro Lens for Sony

10/20/2008 02:35:23 PM · #118

Originally posted by bobnospum:

Baghead Comment I assume to be yours:

"I can't even comment on anymore flipped / rotated images that add nothing to the shot, sorry there's just far too many of them and I really do not feel there is any artistic merit in taking an image and just flipping it to put it in a challenge :( "

If you really that fed up and disappointed with us, you are more than welcome to skip leaving comments in the future. If you insist on punishing yourself more in the future, might I suggest you say "Cool idea, but the subject does not really gain a lot from turning it upside-down. Subjects such as X or Y would have worked better". It says the same thing but lacks the scathing harshness and actuallly provides the "asked for" contructive critism.

Well it wasn't meant to be scathing and was in effect a critique that yours was one of the rotated images that I felt had no real reason for being flipped, I commented on several rotated / flipped images that I felt still met the challenge and were actually well thought out shots with the intent of the rotation / flipping adding something to the image, BUT if you feel you want to come on the forum and post about a comment you are not happy with then the answer is quite simple really I guess don't enter the challenge.

ETA: I don't mention poor photography skills and I don't think I was venting, I am however quite annoyed that you feel the need to post on here and try and start a flame war because you don't like your commnet, I spent over 4 hours going through them trying to be constructive and help as much as possible I was a little exasperated at a lot of images that seemed as if they were entered for the sake of entering (i.e maybe for the DPCO?), I wasn't aware that all comments have to be constructive but I did as I say try to be as much as possible. Feel free to PM you entries in future and I will make sure not to vote / comment on them it's no problem for me.

Message edited by author 2008-10-20 14:43:41.

bobnospum

Sony Alpha a99 II

10/20/2008 03:48:22 PM · #119

Originally posted by Mark-A:

ETA: I don't mention poor photography skills and I don't think I was venting,

Fair enough. My mistake. I thought you were venting about everyone's lack of artistic merit in your above posts and in your comment on my photo. If that was not the case then I apologise and offer to shake shands with you.

Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM

10/20/2008 04:09:17 PM · #120

Originally posted by bobnospum:

I think if you reread my post I say "What artistic merit is there in purely rotating a straight image that has no element of upside down other than the rotate / flip?" that is not to say that everyone who rotated or flipped an image had a similar comment to the one you received infact I think there are 4 or 5 of them that were amazing photos for the fact that the were flipped and I commented on them as such, 2 or 3 of them I only actually realised what was going on once I had studied them for a while, I do not tend to make comments without giving an image a chance and always try and look for something I might have missed, there are two very good examples in the comments I made throughout this challenge but I cannot post them obviously as the challenge is still running. Whilst I mention that there seems lots of these types of shot the reality is there wasn't that many in comparison to the amount of entries and I did and still do to some extent feel you are attempting to make out that I am putting down all of the entries in this challenge, when the truth is I was impressed by a lot of shots in the challenge and I am amazed every single day by the talent on this site.

I had nothing to gain from commenting, I did not vote so my comments were completely unbiased and if I touched a nerve with anyone then I apologise, every other thread on here is about how unfair the voting is and about the trolls etc, but whilst I agree wholeheartedly that this goes on, I also wonder whether some people become a bit attached to their image during voting without actually questioning why they are getting some of these votes.

If I was wrong about your image and the other comments / votes are completely opposite from my comment then I hold my hands up and admit there must be something that I was missing, I guess that can happen when looking through 170 images one after the other.

I have no animosity towards you Bob and do not want to end this with ill feeling so I accept the handshake and hope we can just move on.

To get the thread back on topic:

Votes: 147
Views: 257
Avg Vote: 6.2789
Comments: 5
Favorites: 1

Jessi

Mamiya 645Pro TL

Mamiya 80mm f/2.8

10/20/2008 04:45:24 PM · #121

Votes: 145
Views: 239
Avg Vote: 4.8483
Comments: 3
Favorites: 0
Wish Lists: 0
Updated: 10/20/08 04:10 pm

lol and my comments are even along the lines of "great job!"...meh.

bobonacus

Canon EOS-7D

10/21/2008 12:41:25 PM · #122

It's been creeping up, I've even had 4x6's, a 7 and a 9 today

Votes: 155
Views: 225
Avg Vote: 4.7290
Comments: 2

Still just under my previous personal worse of 4.7635 ... the comments didn't really lead me to an answer of why it's so hated!

DJWoodward