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10/12/2008 09:38:07 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by johnmcboston:
Originally posted by bassbone:
John - I have received less than 3 such emails in the 2 years and 7600 comments I have given on the site. But then again, I generally don't give 'ummmmm' or 'it doesn't do anything for me' as comments. Part of the value of commenting is finding why you say 'ummmm' or 'it doesn't do anything' and explain it to yourself and to the photog. That is when you start making improvements. |
Well, that begs the larger question. Why are there comment fields when you are there to vote? Yes, some of my comments are light-hearted. Some are just short comments if I rated a photograph low. Then again, I have also left constructive comments on a voted photo to be yelled at along the lines of "what do you know and what right do you have to give me advice". There is no winning.
If someone wants feedback on an image, there is the forums where someone can post and gets lots of feedback. Add to this the volume of photographs. Right now there are over 400 photographs to be voted on in only a week's time. That's hours if you were to actively provide constructive suggestions to all.
So why is there a comment field on votes? |
You have the option to comment. You don't have to. Comment on the ones that you feel led to comment on. If you like something tell somebody, so they will be more likely to do it again. You don't always have to post as if you are the worlds expert on photography. Just post how you feel in a positive manner. Lift the contestant up, give them something to smile about on Monday. If you notice something that would help them improve, let them know that as well, but put it in terms that will help them, not hurt them. |
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10/12/2008 09:40:45 PM · #27 |
I am getting a bit bored with commenting, simply because there's only so many things you can say before you find yourself repeating yourself over and over. When I first joined, I commented 100% almost every time, now I'm at about 50%. I still vote 100% on every challenge though, it's not hard to decide on a fair vote, it's just as easy to hit a number as it is to hit the skip button.
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10/12/2008 09:47:31 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by SDW:
I mean, what is it that is making me/we not want to sit down a few minutes a day and vote and comment like we use to? Is it...
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back to the topic - it's a lot of little things. Time is by far the biggest one. The submissions are getting big, and I feel if I can't vote on all the photos, I shouldn't vote on any. Not being able to submit a lot of photos myself makes me a bit sheepish on voting on others. And I have to confess, seeing most of my "10's" show up low in overall ratings while my 5's and 6's get first makes me feel my views are different than most of the crowd that my votes aren't going to really count for much. (bad thinking I know, but it does happen and we're here to discuss). |
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10/12/2008 09:50:20 PM · #29 |
| Someone suggested a while back that we could have a checkbox on an entry to let the voter know if feedback is desired or not. I think it's still a great idea. That way the efforts of those who comment will be spent on the people who are interested in getting the feedback. That would eliminate a lot of what is being discussed in this thread. |
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10/12/2008 09:54:15 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by johnmcboston:
And I have to confess, seeing most of my "10's" show up low in overall ratings while my 5's and 6's get first makes me feel my views are different than most of the crowd that my votes aren't going to really count for much. (bad thinking I know, but it does happen and we're here to discuss). |
It is very valuable. It lets the photographer know that their entry has connected with a few people. As someone who currently has an entry getting hammered with 3's and 4's, those occasional high votes mean a lot. |
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10/12/2008 09:54:43 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by yospiff:
Someone suggested a while back that we could have a checkbox on an entry to let the voter know if feedback is desired or not. I think it's still a great idea. That way the efforts of those who comment will be spent on the people who are interested in getting the feedback. That would eliminate a lot of what is being discussed in this thread. |
I agree with that. |
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10/12/2008 09:57:29 PM · #32 |
I vote and comment very sporadically. I've also gotten into the habit of picking and choosing which photos to vote and/or comment on. Sad but true.
I think the main reason that I vote and comment less than I used to is because there's no feedback. It's like talking to someone that isn't listening. It feels like a waste of time.
I'm selective about which photos I'll comment on because I often have no feelings one way or another about a photo. Let's face it, most challenges have a lot of poor quality photos. Some are from amateurs that are trying hard and failing, but many simply seem to be junk snapshots thrown in just for giggles. And it's often hard to tell which is which. The amateurs that are actually trying to improve might appreciate constructive criticism, and then again they might not. Commenting on the junk images is a total waste of time. Even the ones that are trying often don't appreciate criticism of their work. All they want to hear is how wonderful their POS photo is. I've only received a small number of PM's about my comments, and they've all been from the ones that needed help the most.
Commenting on the better photos is a waste of time too. They're usually from pros or very experienced amateurs that couldn't care less about my opinion. There's seldom a shortage of praise for such photos anyway, and they don't need my comments to feed their egos. Some of the 'Top Gun' shooters are also highly sensitive to criticism. Heaven forbid you point out any flaws in their masterpiece as they or their sycophants will tear you to pieces.
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10/12/2008 10:11:47 PM · #33 |
| I have felt I have been losing interest. I pretty much quit voting and commenting because I figured what I had to say didn't matter. I mean how can I comment/suggest on anyone else photo when mine don't seem to do well. I mainly just look and may occassionally enter a challenge when I can which gets harder because of lack of motivation and inspiration. Just my thoughts/opinions. |
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10/12/2008 10:13:00 PM · #34 |
| Becky you look familiar do you have any ties to Colorado? |
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10/12/2008 10:16:14 PM · #35 |
I think I have lost interest in entering challenges. I know I entering a lot of them but I am having a very hard time coming up with anything good for a challenge. For some reason I just feel that the challenges are so boring and so out there that I would choose not to enter them than to enter them and get a low score for trying to come up with something.
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10/12/2008 10:25:36 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by Mick:
I vote and comment very sporadically. I've also gotten into the habit of picking and choosing which photos to vote and/or comment on. Sad but true.
I think the main reason that I vote and comment less than I used to is because there's no feedback. It's like talking to someone that isn't listening. It feels like a waste of time.
I'm selective about which photos I'll comment on because I often have no feelings one way or another about a photo. Let's face it, most challenges have a lot of poor quality photos. Some are from amateurs that are trying hard and failing, but many simply seem to be junk snapshots thrown in just for giggles. And it's often hard to tell which is which. The amateurs that are actually trying to improve might appreciate constructive criticism, and then again they might not. Commenting on the junk images is a total waste of time. Even the ones that are trying often don't appreciate criticism of their work. All they want to hear is how wonderful their POS photo is. I've only received a small number of PM's about my comments, and they've all been from the ones that needed help the most.
Commenting on the better photos is a waste of time too. They're usually from pros or very experienced amateurs that couldn't care less about my opinion. There's seldom a shortage of praise for such photos anyway, and they don't need my comments to feed their egos. Some of the 'Top Gun' shooters are also highly sensitive to criticism. Heaven forbid you point out any flaws in their masterpiece as they or their sycophants will tear you to pieces. |
Agree on both points Mick...
On the feedback part - for me that has a lot to do with # of entries. I just feel overwhelmed.
But your second point goes to the heart of a lot of the recent forum discussions here. Some photos are so amazing I really wonder why they're here submitting to an 'everything goes' contest - their photos are way better than that. And, as you stay, they're intermixed with photos you have to say "why is there here?". IF I take some snapshots and they just come out OK - should I throw them over the wall and enter a contest anyways? or should I just acknowledge it's not really 'contest worthy' and withhold it? By submitting a photo I know is "just OK" am I in reality jsut wating all yur time because you now have to vote and possibly comment on something I know isn't my best effort??? Add to this photos that really aren't in the topic, but they've squeezed in with a clever title...
Maybe we should have fewer open challenges, but offer different flavour of member challenges based on personally defined level or somesuch. although would that make voting more interesting. hmmmm
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10/12/2008 10:32:38 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:
I think I have lost interest in entering challenges. I know I entering a lot of them but I am having a very hard time coming up with anything good for a challenge. For some reason I just feel that the challenges are so boring and so out there that I would choose not to enter them than to enter them and get a low score for trying to come up with something. |
hmmmm. Maybe 3 challenges a week is just too much? |
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10/12/2008 10:33:47 PM · #38 |
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10/12/2008 10:42:03 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by johnmcboston:
On the feedback part - for me that has a lot to do with # of entries. I just feel overwhelmed. |
???! The number of challenge entries over the last couple of months has been quite low in comparison to the monsters going back 12-18 months.
Originally posted by johnmcboston:
Maybe we should have fewer open challenges, but offer different flavour of member challenges based on personally defined level or somesuch. |
There's only one open challenge per week now. You want to reduce that? Hmmm. Take away from Registered users and give paid Members more perks? Sounds elitist to me.
I'm also curious about something; you've been here 2 years and have entered a grand total of 9 challenges (4 this year)...why is this subject even on your radar? |
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10/12/2008 10:54:51 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
There's only one open challenge per week now. You want to reduce that? Hmmm. Take away from Registered users and give paid Members more perks? Sounds elitist to me. |
The question was asked and I answered... I thought we'd be free to post suggestions. A lot of comments are pointing out some difficulties with the current system.
Originally posted by glad2badad:
I'm also curious about something; you've been here 2 years and have entered a grand total of 9 challenges (4 this year)...why is this subject even on your radar? |
I didn't realize number of contests was a criteria for anything or a point of judgement.
I'm taking part in this thread because like others I've become 'disheartened' with the process. So I can either leave or work to change it. I chose the latter. |
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10/12/2008 11:23:08 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by johnmcboston:
I'm taking part in this thread because like others I've become 'disheartened' with the process. |
How so?
Originally posted by johnmcboston:
I didn't realize number of contests was a criteria for anything or a point of judgement. |
Well, if you're going to "lose interest", as this thread title suggests, you'd need to have illustrated some interest to "lose" in the first place.
Message edited by author 2008-10-12 23:25:07. |
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10/13/2008 12:30:01 AM · #42 |
Thanks everyone for allowing me to see that I'm not the only one. I haven't had time to read all the post but I will shortly. But from what I have read, I see most have valid points. I really like this site and the people here but IMO it has more to do with me at this time. Maybe it's I that is stagnant [2: not advancing or developing].
So to try to get back in to things, off to vote and comment...hopefully!
Message edited by author 2008-10-13 00:54:35. |
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10/13/2008 12:37:50 AM · #43 |
I find that I comment a lot. It's not always about the technical aspect of the images, but often my comments have a personal slant about how the images connect with my experiences or emotions.
I am not overly excited about voting, as I seem to have no idea about what is good or not from the DPC good-stuff POV. The ones that I like best in the challenges usually finish somewhere in the middle. It's not because they are mediocre images, they just are not the most DPC friendly ones .
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10/13/2008 12:46:17 AM · #44 |
I have made the following contribution:
Comments:
Made: 19,970
Helpful: 17,337
Received: 5,603
Helpful: 5,573
I am nearly at 20,000 comments, but in the last couple of months, I have had to slow down because of time commitments. I go through seasons when I have time and desire to comment, and others, when I simply cant. I enjoy commenting as it helps me identify things that help me as well. I like to help others, and hope I have (17,337 helpful comments). I am going to try and reach 20,000 comments tonight and then celebrate!!! |
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10/13/2008 12:46:40 AM · #45 |
I just started (today), after 2 years of lurking. I went through every single "work" challenge entry and voted, posting some comments and not posting on others.
I've received 2 replies. One was slightly snide and the other blew me off.
Tell me: Why would I -BOTHER- wasting my time to critique and give feedback? If you don't like it, just ignore it.
Honestly, the BEST thing this place could do would be to REMOVE THE ABILITY TO SEE WHO GAVE YOU WHAT SCORE/COMMENT.
Track it for admin purposes, but make the feedback anonymous.
Also, a lot of the shots were:
1) Really stretching to make it "work" themed.
2) Many shots looked like snapshots. While you do what you can with those, you really cannot expect them to generally score well/rate well in a contest.
3) I'll say it - a lot of the shots were just "okay."
4) A lot of the shots were very very very similar. Lack of creativity hurts, even if it's unintentional.
5) A lot were TECHNICALLY very good but along the lines of #1, didn't convey a sense of "work." These I scored a bit lower than if you hit the "work" part but lacked technicals.
6) Related to both #5 and #6, IMHO, showing "a person doing something" doesn't necessarily imply "work." (at least to me) Many of the shots lacked context to give them oomph (again, to me, a nobody)
I have no contests entered. I have no shots of my own available at this time. Flame away all you want about it; this post is made from the point of a critiquer and not critiquee.
-Mike |
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10/13/2008 12:49:22 AM · #46 |
My interest in voting has actually increased some lately. Commenting not nearly as much but still rising.
I've toyed with the idea of commenting on all the images in a challenge but I just can't come up with a comment on all images. Even some that I really like. It also looks like if you're the only commenter on an image, your vote on the image will show up as the average of commenters! I like to use the whole range of 1 through 10. But I do like my anonymity. In my experience at another site where anonymity is non-existent I find some voters really get pissed with low votes, even slightly low votes. I also find the scores over there are much higher than what they would be here. Probably because of the intimidation factor of people knowing your vote. (Yup, and all y'all thinking me a troll be sure to check out my voting average at my profile. I'm damn generous.)
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10/13/2008 01:17:15 AM · #47 |
My stats:
Challenges Entered: 246
Votes Cast: 57,492
Avg Vote Cast: 5.8779
Votes Received: 49,374
Avg Vote Received: 5.7384
Comments:
Made: 21,333
Helpful: 19,517
Received: 9,328
Helpful: 9,309
Obviously I don't know any better and just keep plugging along.... :-)
I really enjoy just wandering through the pictures posted here. Sure, there are a lot that won't win any prizes, that may have technical flaws, that aren't "exciting", don't have a "wow" factor, but there are lots of stories told just the same. I will say I haven't been thrilled with challenge topics lately, but I can't complain - it's a weekly assignment, go out and do with it what you can. The current member challenge should bring in a whole slew of awesome shots (Wildlife) but I'll probably skip it - I don't do wildlife unless you count the occasional goths wandering about on Sunday mornings at the train station. (I have no idea where they all go on Sundays... perhaps I should follow them some time.) I still vote, I still comment. I find it a pleasant way to spend my time. |
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10/13/2008 01:33:30 AM · #48 |
Originally posted by johnmcboston:
Agree on both points Mick...
On the feedback part - for me that has a lot to do with # of entries. I just feel overwhelmed.
Yeah, 500+ entries is a lot to slog through, especially when the majority are obviously garbage snapshots. With a huge number of entries like that, I'm feel I'm doing good if I can vote on the 20% minimum. The problem with that is if you don't view all of the photos then you might miss some of the best.
[quote=johnmcboston]But your second point goes to the heart of a lot of the recent forum discussions here. Some photos are so amazing I really wonder why they're here submitting to an 'everything goes' contest - their photos are way better than that. |
I guess some people just enjoy being a big fish in a small pond. On the other hand, I've seen some pretty amazing photos come from rank amateurs too.
Originally posted by johnmcboston:
And, as you stay, they're intermixed with photos you have to say "why is there here?". IF I take some snapshots and they just come out OK - should I throw them over the wall and enter a contest anyways? or should I just acknowledge it's not really 'contest worthy' and withhold it? By submitting a photo I know is "just OK" am I in reality jsut wating all yur time because you now have to vote and possibly comment on something I know isn't my best effort??? Add to this photos that really aren't in the topic, but they've squeezed in with a clever title... |
One of DPC's best features is the membership's range and diversity of talent and experience. We have everything from little kids using their Barbie camera or mom's P&S, to seasoned pros using multimegabuck equipment, fully stocked studios, and professional models. Winning a ribbon here usually means that you made a damn good photo. Unfortunately, that's also one of it's biggest drawbacks. When the pros (or even dialed-in amateurs) are fighting it out for all the ribbons, it makes it very difficult for that little kid to get any notice at all. When you throw in teams of experienced shooters collaborating for domination, and hundreds of just-for-the-heck-of-it junk snapshots... well, it becomes highly unlikely that the less gifted or fortunate will receive many comments.
Originally posted by johnmcboston:
Maybe we should have fewer open challenges, but offer different flavour of member challenges based on personally defined level or somesuch. although would that make voting more interesting. hmmmm |
How about bracket challenges? Sort of like bracket racing where the idea is to go fast, but not too fast. If you go too fast, you break out and get disqualified. In a challenge, if your photo gets too high of a score, then it gets disqualified. That would sure put a different spin on friend voting, wouldn't it? Do I give my friend a high score to bump him up, or a low one to help him stay in his bracket?
Yeah I know, it's a silly idea. :D
Another idea would be some way of filtering out the chaff. I can't think of any practical way of doing that without a lot of hurt feelings though. Besides, it wouldn't be fair to beginners.
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10/13/2008 07:17:18 AM · #49 |
Originally posted by LadyTara:
I am getting a bit bored with commenting, simply because there's only so many things you can say before you find yourself repeating yourself over and over. When I first joined, I commented 100% almost every time, now I'm at about 50%. I still vote 100% on every challenge though, it's not hard to decide on a fair vote, it's just as easy to hit a number as it is to hit the skip button. |
To be fair, it would maybe be a good suggestion to go with quality rather than quantity.
To make the statement that "there's only so many things you can say before you find yourself repeating yourself over and over speaks to me that you're really not taking the time to look at the images enough to give a really good, in-depth comment.
Maybe vote less, and comment on the ones you vote.
You haven't been here that long and it seems odd, at least to me, that you've "seen it all" and are looking at images that evoke the same response over and over.
Just my $0.02 US.......YMMV......8>)
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10/13/2008 07:36:04 AM · #50 |
Originally posted by johnmcboston:
Originally posted by bassbone:
John - I have received less than 3 such emails in the 2 years and 7600 comments I have given on the site. But then again, I generally don't give 'ummmmm' or 'it doesn't do anything for me' as comments. Part of the value of commenting is finding why you say 'ummmm' or 'it doesn't do anything' and explain it to yourself and to the photog. That is when you start making improvements. |
Well, that begs the larger question. Why are there comment fields when you are there to vote? Yes, some of my comments are light-hearted. Some are just short comments if I rated a photograph low. Then again, I have also left constructive comments on a voted photo to be yelled at along the lines of "what do you know and what right do you have to give me advice". There is no winning.
If someone wants feedback on an image, there is the forums where someone can post and gets lots of feedback. Add to this the volume of photographs. Right now there are over 400 photographs to be voted on in only a week's time. That's hours if you were to actively provide constructive suggestions to all.
So why is there a comment field on votes? |
Looks like Peter and I think the same way. I've never received one of these retaliation E-mails that I hear about, so I always wonder what type of comments the person left. "ouch my eyes" is probably a good way to get one of those e-mails, I suspect. While I agree that the highlights were very blown out and harsh, I guess I would have said that.
But not the topic of this thread, so carry on...
Message edited by author 2008-10-13 07:36:18. |
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