Thoughts on "proofs"? - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

10/09/2008 03:21:31 PM · #1

I've got a question on the topic of proofs that will require a very short description of my workflow to understand. After a photo session I do the following:

1. Delete blinks, out of focus, redundant images etc.
2. Do a quick color balance and exposure adjustment on any remaining images.
3. Share images with client either online or in 4x6 format
4. Select images to be retouched and receive additional processing.
5. Share a version of the processed image online or in 4x6 format to ensure it suits the client.
6. Make final prints and deliver

So here's where I'm getting confusion... are the images shown in step 3 "proofs" or are the images exchanged in step 5 "proofs". My history would suggest that the images in step 5 are the proofs because they show what is to be printed, but it seems that for many portrait and wedding photographers the images exchanged in step 3 are the proofs. If one is a proof, what is the other called? If it makes any difference, many of my final prints receive more than an retouch before printing.

Thanks in advance for your opinions,
Dave

angelfire

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

10/09/2008 03:41:51 PM · #2

I personally don't do step 3. I didn't know that people do.

Kelli

Canon EOS-D60

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

10/09/2008 03:42:37 PM · #3

Edited Proofs?

10/09/2008 03:44:50 PM · #4

I don't really do step 3 either... I prefer to make sure that all photo's i'm going to show are in a 'could be printed right now' state... if the client speifically requests additional editing thats one thing, but I do generally do all my editing first.

10/09/2008 03:57:11 PM · #5

I'm finding that many of the people that want to work with me want the more artistic images that take much longer to edit. I simply cannot afford to put that much time into every image from a session.

Eyesup, do you do fully edit all of your images in advance? Blemishes removed, skin softened (a little where necessary), eyes sharpened, curves to optimize contrast? I may just be way to slow at this.

10/09/2008 04:09:00 PM · #6

Originally posted by Nusbaum:

Nope, not every image will get this tratment:

for weddings I tend to choose between 100 - 200 max of all the shots to shot to the client in the first place. of those many will get a cursery edit... these are photo's i'm fairly sure wont make it t print (but need to be ready just in case), Some just beg to be edited fully and I do before they are seen by the client... the rest get the regular treatment (Blemishes removed, skin softened (a little where necessary), eyes sharpened, curves to optimize contrast) before hand.

For portraits choose 30 - 60. again a few only need minor edits... but for these I generally fully edit all

the aim for me is to help them see the diamonds amongst the rests... and hopefully they'll by more is the see a fully edited photo that they ca appreciate right off the bat then they would if they only see only the rough and have to imagine what it will become.

10/09/2008 04:25:15 PM · #7

Originally posted by Eyesup:

the aim for me is to help them see the diamonds amongst the rests... and hopefully they'll by more is the see a fully edited photo that they ca appreciate right off the bat then they would if they only see only the rough and have to imagine what it will become.

And this is exactly why I asked the question... I agree with you in saying that it would be better to chose and fully edit the best images so everything looks great from the start. But, for some reason, I've always felt compelled to show a broader selection before making my final cut. I think maybe it's time to change my thinking.

10/09/2008 04:34:13 PM · #8

Think about it this way...

when you go to look for a ring, the jeweler doesn't how you a bunch of coal and say 'just wait and see what I do with this', because you can't imagine it, so you likely would buy. neither do they show you the mine and say 'which one do you want' that would be too overwhelming... you would look at the field and say 'how do I know which one?' so you just randomly choose a few that catch your eye and b done with it. rather they create a set of beautiful rings, earings, etc. and say here is what we've done, which ones would you like? you immediatly see how beautiful the jewelery is and you're compelled to by... you don't care about tht lump of coal it came from... or the mine they took it out of... ou generally don't even care how much work went into it.

in this case you are the jeweler... show only your best wares and they'll buy more.

Prof_Fate

10/09/2008 04:41:57 PM · #9

You do it for money, right? So keeping that in mind...

People buy on emotion - the first viewing of the images from a session (proofs, regardless of their state of perfection) is the most important time. This is why view and choose 'proofing' sessions are much better than any form of web/printed proofing.

Not everyone can see the finished product. My wife can't visualize anything. I tend to overlook all the imperfections to see an idealized finished product. Most folks are someplace in between. Add in your style, be that the way you shoot, crop or edit and it can be tough to know what to show a client. Not everything works for everyone all the time either.

You can't sell what you don't show is a tried and true maxim. You want to sell collages, fancy borders, textures, black and white - whatever - you have to show them the product. The more you show (generally) the more you will sell, but it's not practical to show every image edited 4 different ways - not practical from a client sitting there and looking at them or from you POV of having to make all these effects/images on spec (speculation that they'll buy).

For my seniors, babies, and other portraiture I cull the bad ones, do a basic WB/CC/Crop. Now that I'm using LR2 I can do more - it allows for spot editing such as lightening a face or vignetting or touching up a blemish, etc. Better 'proofs' for little extra time - I'll see if it increases sales.
I then take 10 or so images that I like and work them up a bit more. I use portrait professional for retouching, so I'll take a head shot and do a side by side before / after and and show them that to get their approval for the retouching that will be done on purchased images.

My view and choose software will do B&W and sepia on the fly as well as cropping so let them know that (and show them) so that offers them more options that take no time to prepare.

They pick the 5 or whatever images they want and those I edit. I used to do more work on my V&C images and what took 5 hours now takes 2, sometimes less. Sales haven't changed as far as I can tell.

10/09/2008 04:42:30 PM · #10

Originally posted by Eyesup:

in this case you are the jeweler... show only your best wares and they'll buy more.

I see your point, as well as seeing my problem. When I bought a ring I automatically dismissed anything I saw under the counter. I picked a stone and then described the setting I wanted. The jeweler found a ring that was close and then modified it to suit me. I enjoyed the dialog and feeling involved in the creative process. A mistake on my part is assuming that all clients want this same level of involvement. The jeweler metaphor helps, thanks!