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 10/07/2008 01:36:01 PM · #26
Originally posted by nshapiro:
Congratulations Fritz! I'm right with you--I was really fed up with my Mac Pro's consistent reliability issues over the year I've had my Mac, so I ordered a new HP D5000t PC today with Vista 64 and 6 GB of memory.


Thanks Neil... you sure have had your share of troubles with the Mac over the past year, haven't you? Here's hoping the HP does better for you. I do think the new HP machines (the higher-end ones) are well-built. I looked around a very little bit before building, but couldn't convince myself to give up control of all the hardware decisions, LOL. If I had to buy pre-built, I would have probably wound up with something from HP. They seem to want to sell to the workstation market, where as Dell just wants to sell basic, gaming-oriented, or servers.
 10/07/2008 02:11:58 PM · #27
Originally posted by Patrick_R:
Originally posted by kirbic:
I find myself nodding in agreement with Patrick_R. I would never have considered loading Vista on my old box, even if it *didn't* have hardware issues. Lots of RAM seems to be key for snappy response. I noticed that I'm normally running about 2.1-2.3 GB of RAM in use, even with only one or two apps open. I'd hate to try to run it in 1GB.
OTOH, driving RAM usage above 4GB used is actually a challenge. I think for most users, 4GB would be plenty of RAM, but I do see CS4 in my future, and I do stitch large panos and intend to get back to editing video, so I went 8GB.


About time someone agreed with me! lol. Yeah I'm using 32 bit vista and it says 3.5 gigs of my 4gigs o ram is accessible. With my usual internet explorer and windows media player running constantly running its saying about 30% ram usage.

I actually wen vista because I am a gamer. had to have dx10 lol yay crysis on very high settings!


(32Bit only) Turn on PAE (using BCEdit) and you can use all 4G of RAM... works much the same EMM386 and/or Himem.sys did in the old days.

//www.vistarewired.com/2007/03/29/how-to-enable-more-than-35-gb-of-memory-in-32-bit-windows-vista

10/07/2008 02:38:19 PM · #28
95% of the people on that site say it doesn't work lol
 10/07/2008 02:38:59 PM · #29
I still need to buy a video card, if the 9500GS doesn't do a dual link monitor plus a single link separae monitor. (As an aside--I've noticed it gets harder and harder to find specs on the internet. Especially when the manufacturer doesn't put info up, and sellers don't. And searches these days turn up so many "sales sites" you can't find technical info through that mess!)

Fritz, what made you go with the Quadro instead of one of the newer, mainstream video cards? What's the advantage of a card like that--which seems to be CAD oriented card for a machine used mainly for video/photo editing and regular use (or perhaps I'm missing the point that you do CAD!)

I'm considering the ASUS EN9800GT ULTIMATE/HTDP/512M GeForce 9800 GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card, which is about the same price as the quadro ($149 at NewEgg, $129 after rebate). Gets great reviews, and supports Dual dual-link DVI. But I don't tend to need a super fast card i.e., for gaming--just a really reliable one without buggy drivers. And good support for dual monitors (for which from past experience I'm always tempted to buy Matrox, and for which I'll never buy ATI!) Is that why you buy "workstation class cards"?

And how does LR 2.1 run on your new rig? It's 64 bit.

Message edited by author 2008-10-07 14:41:12.
 10/07/2008 03:06:09 PM · #30
Please forgive my ignorance, but are there issues with running old-school software on 64-bit Windows? I've been using some software for years, such as Mp3tag, which I can't do without, among others. Are there software issues, or is the concern largely a device driver one?
 10/07/2008 03:08:03 PM · #31
My Eye One will not work on my 64 bit vista
 10/07/2008 03:21:30 PM · #32
Originally posted by Louis:
Please forgive my ignorance, but are there issues with running old-school software on 64-bit Windows? I've been using some software for years, such as Mp3tag, which I can't do without, among others. Are there software issues, or is the concern largely a device driver one?

The short answer is that all 32-bit software should work just fine. 64-bit extends 32-bit such that software should run swimmingly in a layer abstracted by the operating system from 32/64-bit complications. The reason drivers have problems is that they deal with low-level hardware details which have changed and are not abstracted away.
 10/07/2008 03:31:23 PM · #33
Originally posted by ShutterHack:
My Eye One will not work on my 64 bit vista


Tell me it aint so....I have an eye one!

Edit: Just went to the site, and there are drivers there for Vista 64...

and found this in a forum...

go to the i1 website download the latest drivers for vista 64, load them, if it still doesn't work, go into system control panel and the i1 will have the yellow blob on it to say it is not working, right click and tell it to update the drivers and that is it!

Message edited by author 2008-10-07 15:36:10.
 10/07/2008 04:00:03 PM · #34
Originally posted by nshapiro:
I still need to buy a video card, if the 9500GS doesn't do a dual link monitor plus a single link separae monitor. (As an aside--I've noticed it gets harder and harder to find specs on the internet. Especially when the manufacturer doesn't put info up, and sellers don't. And searches these days turn up so many "sales sites" you can't find technical info through that mess!)

Fritz, what made you go with the Quadro instead of one of the newer, mainstream video cards? What's the advantage of a card like that--which seems to be CAD oriented card for a machine used mainly for video/photo editing and regular use (or perhaps I'm missing the point that you do CAD!)

I'm considering the ASUS EN9800GT ULTIMATE/HTDP/512M GeForce 9800 GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card, which is about the same price as the quadro ($149 at NewEgg, $129 after rebate). Gets great reviews, and supports Dual dual-link DVI. But I don't tend to need a super fast card i.e., for gaming--just a really reliable one without buggy drivers. And good support for dual monitors (for which from past experience I'm always tempted to buy Matrox, and for which I'll never buy ATI!) Is that why you buy "workstation class cards"?

And how does LR 2.1 run on your new rig? It's 64 bit.


That is one of the first questions I had. The workstation Quadro cards are aimed toward CAD systems. In all reality, you probably wouldn't notice a whole lot of difference, to me it seems like the mainstream cards seem to be geared toward graphics (photos) and general media.

The dual core should be fine for now, but I definitely wouldn't turn you away from a quad at all. The Q6600 is a good all-around quad while the Q9450 or Q9550 look REAL nice. 12MB L2 Cache!

Enjoy your rig though, I LOVE building new machines!

64-bit Windows is quite nice and honestly, I haven't had too many issues and its the smoothest running Windows I've used. Maybe because of the beastly 8GB of RAM I was using (work machine).
 10/07/2008 04:28:07 PM · #35
Originally posted by Patrick_R:

Ken depends on what you want lol but if you are switching out your mobo for a new one your old processor might not be the same socket type. I did my full build for about 1200 back on febuary. Which I listed in a earlier post.


I'm thinking entirely new box. My current one is great except when I'm editing large pictures in CS3 it chokes. It would become my new backup and my current backup gets passed on to the kids.
 10/07/2008 05:21:13 PM · #36
Originally posted by Patrick_R:
Originally posted by dd1989:
I would NOT turn UAC off, it can create havoc when turned off.


Like what? XP didn't have it. I know what I'm doing and if I ever do something wrong my antivirus software yells at me. lol It's for people who don't know what they are doing. I don't want to have to confirm "Yes I want to copy this file here" every time I move a file. It slows me down and its just plain obnoxious.

Other than that has anyone gone to sp1 yet? I still haven't I always wait a bit for everyone else to try it.

Ken depends on what you want lol but if you are switching out your mobo for a new one your old processor might not be the same socket type. I did my full build for about 1200 back on febuary. Which I listed in a earlier post.


Some applications are built with installers that rely on UAC to ensure the correct access rights are assigned to files and folders. I have found in the past that with UAC disabled, this can *confuse* application installers, and I end up with errors when it comes to run the software.

And yes SP1 is installed, seems fine.
 10/07/2008 05:46:37 PM · #37
Originally posted by goinskiing:
Originally posted by nshapiro:
I still need to buy a video card, if the 9500GS doesn't do a dual link monitor plus a single link separae monitor. (As an aside--I've noticed it gets harder and harder to find specs on the internet. Especially when the manufacturer doesn't put info up, and sellers don't. And searches these days turn up so many "sales sites" you can't find technical info through that mess!)

Fritz, what made you go with the Quadro instead of one of the newer, mainstream video cards? What's the advantage of a card like that--which seems to be CAD oriented card for a machine used mainly for video/photo editing and regular use (or perhaps I'm missing the point that you do CAD!)

I'm considering the ASUS EN9800GT ULTIMATE/HTDP/512M GeForce 9800 GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card, which is about the same price as the quadro ($149 at NewEgg, $129 after rebate). Gets great reviews, and supports Dual dual-link DVI. But I don't tend to need a super fast card i.e., for gaming--just a really reliable one without buggy drivers. And good support for dual monitors (for which from past experience I'm always tempted to buy Matrox, and for which I'll never buy ATI!) Is that why you buy "workstation class cards"?

And how does LR 2.1 run on your new rig? It's 64 bit.


That is one of the first questions I had. The workstation Quadro cards are aimed toward CAD systems. In all reality, you probably wouldn't notice a whole lot of difference, to me it seems like the mainstream cards seem to be geared toward graphics (photos) and general media.

The dual core should be fine for now, but I definitely wouldn't turn you away from a quad at all. The Q6600 is a good all-around quad while the Q9450 or Q9550 look REAL nice. 12MB L2 Cache!

Enjoy your rig though, I LOVE building new machines!

64-bit Windows is quite nice and honestly, I haven't had too many issues and its the smoothest running Windows I've used. Maybe because of the beastly 8GB of RAM I was using (work machine).


The graphics card is a very interesting question. I looked at a *lot* of tests of mainstream cards, and concluded that they are singlemindedly designed to boost the performance of rendering surfaces and textures at high frame rates, and they have skimped in other areas. They consume outlandish amounts of power, generate prodigious amounts of heat, and in the end don't address my needs.
The Quadro cards have dual DVI output so I can run two monitors at up to 2560x1920 each. Will I need more than this in the lifetime of this machine? IMO, nope. The Quadro cards are targeted at graphics professionals, and so image quality is a higher priority. nVidia also has solid drivers. My old machine had an ATI card, which I came to *hate*. The nicest thing about the 570 is that it only draws 38 watts!
Lr 2.1 runs snappily on the new machine; none of the interface sluggishness that plagued it on my old box. The only perceptible delay is in the rendering of the high-resolution images in develop mode. It takes about 1.5 seconds from the initial, low-res display to the final display. I can import or export in the background without much impact at all on the interface performance, in fact I've forgotten that I *was* running a background process. I am running a completely default installation of Lr; I have not tweaked any settings to increase performance.

ETA:
With the upcoming release of CS4, the graphics card question will be come a little more interesting. Supposedly CS4 will offload some work to the GPU when possible. It will be interesting whether/how much this changes the game for graphics card selection.

Message edited by author 2008-10-07 17:59:30.
 10/07/2008 07:28:20 PM · #38
Originally posted by Ken:
Originally posted by Patrick_R:

Ken depends on what you want lol but if you are switching out your mobo for a new one your old processor might not be the same socket type. I did my full build for about 1200 back on febuary. Which I listed in a earlier post.


I'm thinking entirely new box. My current one is great except when I'm editing large pictures in CS3 it chokes. It would become my new backup and my current backup gets passed on to the kids.


I don't know if you're set on building a box, but my experience is that you can often do better than building it. I used to have a good system builder do it for me, since it basically didn't cost extra (ordering it online from a small shop), and then I don't have to worry about DOAs or system gotchas with hand picked components (you're covered). But if you eye what's in the boxes, you can't beat the pricing I was seeing from Gateway's top of the line before they stopped selling direct, and now HP.

My big thing is always getting a good case. I want a clean inside, not a rats nest, plenty of expansion room, and tool-less access. That's where the d5000t impressed me (and formerly the Gateway 5xx series I think it was). The d5000t has an ATX case, 4 HD bays, and 3 optical bays. (The first thing I did with my Mac Pro was to fill all four bays with hard drives and fill it with memory.)

I had read that the HP d5000t has an Asus motherboard, which I know is good (one of my system builders always recommends them, and I have at least one computer with a nice Asus motherboard.). I just went to confirm that before writing this, and I found an interesting review, by a user here.

A few weeks ago, HP had a $400 off coupon for the D5000t--I was stupid not to buy it then. But my Mac crossed my threshold of pain yesterday, and so I bought a system with only a $200 discount. But it was still pretty cheap, even though my lazy but threw in a few extras (I could have gotten 8 GB of memory for the price of 6 GB if I just added it myself, which I've done many times. But I have work to do, and I just wanted it to be as ready to use as possible.)

My total, which included buying 3 years of NAV (price was right--$50--though now I use AVG), and a tuner, which I really didn't need, was $1300. But if you go with the quad 2.5GHz processor, and the base video card (mine was just an extra $50--I figured it would make a good spare, even if I replaced it)--you can get the same PC for $999. With a nice tool-less case, a new generation quad processor, 6 GB, lots of bays and a 460 Watt power supply, and a 1 year warranty, I don't think that can be easily beat!

But I'll let you know when I get it (which unfortunately, won't be for another week to 12 days).

Message edited by author 2008-10-07 19:33:13.
 10/07/2008 07:46:47 PM · #39
Originally posted by kirbic:

The graphics card is a very interesting question. I looked at a *lot* of tests of mainstream cards, and concluded that they are singlemindedly designed to boost the performance of rendering surfaces and textures at high frame rates, and they have skimped in other areas. They consume outlandish amounts of power, generate prodigious amounts of heat, and in the end don't address my needs.
The Quadro cards have dual DVI output so I can run two monitors at up to 2560x1920 each. Will I need more than this in the lifetime of this machine? IMO, nope. The Quadro cards are targeted at graphics professionals, and so image quality is a higher priority. nVidia also has solid drivers. My old machine had an ATI card, which I came to *hate*. The nicest thing about the 570 is that it only draws 38 watts!
Lr 2.1 runs snappily on the new machine; none of the interface sluggishness that plagued it on my old box. The only perceptible delay is in the rendering of the high-resolution images in develop mode. It takes about 1.5 seconds from the initial, low-res display to the final display. I can import or export in the background without much impact at all on the interface performance, in fact I've forgotten that I *was* running a background process. I am running a completely default installation of Lr; I have not tweaked any settings to increase performance.

ETA:
With the upcoming release of CS4, the graphics card question will be come a little more interesting. Supposedly CS4 will offload some work to the GPU when possible. It will be interesting whether/how much this changes the game for graphics card selection.


Heh, shows how much I know ;)

As far as CS4, I'm not quite sure exactly which type will have the advantage. Interesting to note though is that both newer versions of Windows and OSX are working on utilizing the GPU for accelleration. I guess time will tell.

Sounds like you got yourself a nice little rig there. If you can get your hands on a 10K RPM HD do it, those are fun.

Again, 64-bit is the way to go. I LOVE having that extra RAM, its wonderful. I'd also love to get my hands on a wacom tablet of sorts.
10/07/2008 10:55:52 PM · #40
Tell me it aint so....I have an eye one!

Edit: Just went to the site, and there are drivers there for Vista 64...

and found this in a forum...

go to the i1 website download the latest drivers for vista 64, load them, if it still doesn't work, go into system control panel and the i1 will have the yellow blob on it to say it is not working, right click and tell it to update the drivers and that is it!

Thank You Thank You Nshapiro
 10/08/2008 12:23:23 AM · #41
You're welcome.

And I just got an email that my system shipped. It wasn't going to ship until the 13th. But it's ahead of schedule. Score 1 point for HP!

ETA: And here's a hidden cost of having two computers now vying for the same 30" monitor--I had to buy a new KVM switch. There aren't many choices of switches that can support 1600x2500 (dual link). Since I tend to have more than two computers under my desk I ended up getting a 4 port switch to replace my "aged" Omnicube switch. $345 for a switch! (I think my old one cost about $80--though it didn't include cables, and it's probably 10 years old or more.)



Message edited by author 2008-10-08 00:28:04.
 10/08/2008 12:41:45 AM · #42
Getting back onto the topic of Vista specifically--I've had a vista machine for over a year now (my laptop) and I just discovered that there are some new accessories to offer features like iMovie and iPhoto. Anyone try them yet? Opinions?
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