Creating Elements to Add to a Challenge Entry

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

04/12/2004 11:29:12 PM · #26

I will be extremely dissapointed with the site if the 'bar fight' image is allowed to retain it's ribbon. This is exactly what I feared would happen if the rules were loosened up as much as they were.

My 2 cents
TC

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

04/12/2004 11:33:29 PM · #27

Originally posted by moodville:

According to the details on the photo he digitially created glass shards. In the other image he digitally created a blade. What is the difference?

I missed that -- I thought it only mentioned cloning other parts of the photo to use repeatedly. If the shards were created digitally then there's no difference.

Natator

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

04/12/2004 11:39:19 PM · #28

I was fooled by both the knife and the bottle photos. I think they are both excellent .... but in the DPC context I think wrong. Both would have got a 1 from me had I known, yet maybe added to my favourites as out of challenge I like them. I am quite in awe of that knife blade to be honest, although the glass is not nearly as convincing.

I was, and still am, pro the new rule changes, but unfortunately this has created a grey area where this has fallen.

Maybe the answer, if people do wish to keep this mainly as a photographic site rather than digital art (amazing stuff, but not what I am here for) is to refine the rules a little to avoid this. Maybe something like the fact you can adjust a photo etc etc etc but not add any additional "material" that was not in the original? This would cover the addition of digital art as well as additional images.

Hate to say it here, and have never though so before, but I also do not think that image should retain the ribbon, it is unfair on those that have just missed out (and I did not even enter that competition, so have nothing to gain personally).

If the rules are reworded, what about an image, heaps of pieces of glass for example, then just moved around to include an effect with the clone tool, or similar. Still all original image, but manipulated to the point ti is nothing like the original. I think that would not be in the spirit of here either.

Message edited by author 2004-04-12 23:41:12.

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

04/12/2004 11:43:13 PM · #29

Originally posted by Natator:

Hate to say it here, and have never though so before, but I also do not think that image should retain the ribbon, it is unfair on those that have just missed out (and I did not even enter that competition, so have nothing to gain personally).

If the rules are reworded, what about an image, heaps of pieces of glass for example, then just moved around to include an effect with the clone tool, or similar. Still all original image, but manipulated to the point ti is nothing like the original. I think that would not be in the spirit of here either.

You may not have anything to gain, but you and I and most of us have a great deal to lose. That is respect for the site that we have grown to love over that last months and years...

Edited to add the two words in italics

Message edited by author 2004-04-12 23:51:41.

ClubJuggle

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

04/13/2004 12:15:09 AM · #30

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Technically it is legal but goes completly against the spirit of the rules.

I disagree -- I think an element created on the computer constitutes "clip art" within the meaning of the rules. It makes no difference whether the art is rendered on a layer within the same file within the photo, or in a separate file and imported -- it is a distinct and separate element created digitally and not photographically. It is specifically NOT created from the same image by cloning, dodging, or burning. I don't see any way to consider it legal under our rules. [/quote]

The dilemma here is that somehow the "clip art" is not anywhere in the Advanced Editing rules. "Your entry must come from a single photo, taken during the week of the challenge. No multi-image compositions, no layering of multiple exposures, no copying-and-pasting elements from other photographs (even those taken during the challenge week), etc."

The phrase, "The only thing you may not do to your photograph during post-shot editing is add text," further suggest, in my opinion, and I speak only for myself here, that when in doubt, we'll allow it. Going forward, we can certainly change the wording of the rules to make it clear this is not permissible, and discussion of doing so is in fact already under way. The fact is, though, if the Site Council consensus is that the current wording does not make this illegal, then we cannot really disqualify an image because we meant to make it illegal but didn't. Whether that is the case is currently under discussion.

-Terry

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

04/13/2004 12:16:59 AM · #31

Originally posted by ClubJuggle:

Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by konador:
Technically it is legal but goes completly against the spirit of the rules.

I disagree -- I think an element created on the computer constitutes "clip art" within the meaning of the rules. It makes no difference whether the art is rendered on a layer within the same file within the photo, or in a separate file and imported -- it is a distinct and separate element created digitally and not photographically. It is specifically NOT created from the same image by cloning, dodging, or burning. I don't see any way to consider it legal under our rules.

The dilemma here is that somehow the "clip art" is not anywhere in the Advanced Editing rules. "Your entry must come from a single photo, taken during the week of the challenge. No multi-image compositions, no layering of multiple exposures, no copying-and-pasting elements from other photographs (even those taken during the challenge week), etc."

The phrase, "The only thing you may not do to your photograph during post-shot editing is add text," further suggest, in my opinion, and I speak only for myself here, that when in doubt, we'll allow it. Going forward, we can certainly change the wording of the rules to make it clear this is not permissible, and discussion of doing so is in fact already under way. The fact is, though, if the Site Council consensus is that the current wording does not make this illegal, then we cannot really disqualify an image because we meant to make it illegal but didn't. Whether that is the case is currently under discussion.

-Terry

IMHO the 'ETC.' part of the rules that you yourself have just quoted in the context of adding elements would HAVE to include digitally created elements...

Message edited by author 2004-04-13 00:21:02.

ClubJuggle

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

04/13/2004 12:20:22 AM · #32

Originally posted by TooCool:

Originally posted by ClubJuggle:

Originally posted by GeneralE:
Technically it is legal but goes completly against the spirit of the rules.

I disagree -- I think an element created on the computer constitutes "clip art" within the meaning of the rules. It makes no difference whether the art is rendered on a layer within the same file within the photo, or in a separate file and imported -- it is a distinct and separate element created digitally and not photographically. It is specifically NOT created from the same image by cloning, dodging, or burning. I don't see any way to consider it legal under our rules.

The dilemma here is that somehow the "clip art" is not anywhere in the Advanced Editing rules. "Your entry must come from a single photo, taken during the week of the challenge. No multi-image compositions, no layering of multiple exposures, no copying-and-pasting elements from other photographs (even those taken during the challenge week), etc."

The phrase, "The only thing you may not do to your photograph during post-shot editing is add text," further suggest, in my opinion, and I speak only for myself here, that when in doubt, we'll allow it. Going forward, we can certainly change the wording of the rules to make it clear this is not permissible, and discussion of doing so is in fact already under way. The fact is, though, if the Site Council consensus is that the current wording does not make this illegal, then we cannot really disqualify an image because we meant to make it illegal but didn't. Whether that is the case is currently under discussion.

-Terry

IMHO the 'ETC.' part of the rules that you yourself have just quoted in the context of adding elements would HAVE to include digitally created elements...

Personally, I have a hard time using the word "etc." as a reason for disqualification, especially so far after the challenge has ended. This is, as I mentioned, under Site Council discussion. When we reach a consensus we will post as Site Council at that time.

-Terry

Message edited by author 2004-04-13 00:21:08.