| Author | Thread |
|
|
09/25/2008 09:12:57 AM · #1 |
Last night I was out in town taking pictures on our only main street - Spring Street. Although this street does pass through a portion of the Williams College Campus, it is public property and does not belong to the college and is not subject to the patrol/protection of the campus security force (this according to the head of security and something which I already knew.)
So I was taking pictures minding my own business. There are a few benches on the sidewalk across the street from the package store. This is almost exactly in the middle of the block. So I was sitting there reviewing the pics I had just taken to see if they would be better with a tripod and just after snapping the pic posted above. I stand up only to find a campus security officer standing at the end of the bench. I pretty much ignored him as it didn't even cross my mind that he was there for me.
Officer: Excuse me, where are you going?
Me: Back to my car to get a new card for my camera. Is there something wrong?
Officer: I need the card from your camera.
Me: What? For what?
Officer: Because I said I wanted it.
Me: I'm sorry sir. I will gladly let you view the pictures on the card, but I will not give you the card.
Officer: Okay, give me your camera and let me look at them.
Me: Again sir, I am sorry, but I will not give you my camera. If you would like to see them I will gladly sit here and scroll through them for you to see. Is there a problem?
Officer: I will determine if there is a problem or not. Are you going to cooperate or do I have to call the Williamstown Police?
Me: I think you should call the Williamstown police. I will wait here for them to arrive.
At this point he walks back to his truck - half the one-way street away. I sit on the bench, smoke two cigarettes waiting. No one ever shows up - not the Williamstown police nor does the security officer physically approach me again. So I go back to my car which is parked at the end of the street and change out CF cards. It was at this point that I notice a truck parked in a no parking zone, angled across the road with their high-beams shining right on me. When I get out of the car and start walking the other side of the street I notice that this truck has moved position, going the wrong way on a one-way street, following me. It is the security officer.
I walk up to the front of a store called Library Antiques ( ) to photograph the window displays...or so I thought. Every time I put the camera up to focus and take a shot, the officer would turn his high-beams on me effectively ruining every potential shot I wanted to take. He kept this up for about half an hour until I decided to walk the parking lot route (behind the buildings, still public property) to get back to my car. I could see taking pictures was not going to happen so I decided to go home for the night. I get to my car and sure enough, here is mister security guard parked right next to my vehicle so I had no room to even get into the car via the driver side door. Instead of dealing with this guy I went to the passenger side door and got in and fortunately there was no one parked in front of me so I could just pull ahead and out of the spot and head home.
This morning I called the security office to find out what the deal was and the head of security told me, and I quote, "The officer in question did report your presence on Spring Street and saw you taking pictures and since you had a camera he was suspicious you could be a potential rapist." I asked what authority he had on Spring Street and her reply was, again I quote, "None. It is not part of campus property and he has no authority on Spring Street."
So, moral of the story: carry a camera/take pictures at night on a public street and you are a potential rapist.
Message edited by author 2008-09-25 11:29:21. |
|
|
|
09/25/2008 09:21:41 AM · #2 |
that sucks......f'n rent a cops get on my nerves
|
|
|
|
09/25/2008 09:31:21 AM · #3 |
| One of those wannabe's that thinks he's super cop, and then when you didn't back down, he harassed you even more. I'd file a complaint against him. |
|
|
|
09/25/2008 09:51:28 AM · #4 |
Did you complain about this harassment (the high beams shenanigans) to the campus security office? I would have read them the riot act, in person.
Did you call the real police to file a complaint about it.
Better yet, did you get a picture of him?
Fascist Bastards |
|
|
|
09/25/2008 09:59:24 AM · #5 |
I wish to all hell these things would happen to me. You'll hear and read about it in the news if it ever does.
Rent a cops are no better than a redneck with a gun and I'd even say they're worse because the law protects them.
I would file a complaint of harassment ASAP. We can't let these idiots dictate what we want to photograph. |
|
|
|
09/25/2008 10:05:53 AM · #6 |
Just got off the phone with the local police after talking again to the Security office. The head of security basically said she would not accept a complaint since in her view her "officers do an outstanding job protecting the students and I feel you are being overly sensitive to a non-issue." Bah!
The local police said they would take my complaint but basically since they were separate departments and that no law was actually broken, there was not much they would or could do.
I got two pictures of the officer and two of his truck pointed right at me, at an angle and not in a parking spot, with high beams on.
And just because I want to, I will be back on Spring Street tonight to attempt to get the pictures I was prevented from getting last night.
Message edited by author 2008-09-25 10:07:29. |
|
|
|
09/25/2008 10:08:13 AM · #7 |
Harassment isn't breaking the law?
They protect their own is what she was trying to say. BS!
Hope you get your pics, without being harassed. :}
Message edited by author 2008-09-25 10:09:35. |
|
|
|
09/25/2008 10:13:08 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by CEJ:
The head of security basically said she would not accept a complaint since in her view her "officers do an outstanding job protecting the students and I feel you are being overly sensitive to a non-issue." Bah!
|
Who is her boss? Somebody in the administration holds her leash. How about a letter to the Editor of the local paper illustratiing the harassment of regular citizens by heavy-handed campus securi-goons?
Look, she's blowing you off because she thinks/hopes you'll go away. Don't give in.
Message edited by author 2008-09-25 10:16:35. |
|
|
|
09/25/2008 10:13:54 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by CEJ:
The head of security basically said she would not accept a complaint since in her view her "officers do an outstanding job protecting the students and I feel you are being overly sensitive to a non-issue." Bah!
|
Who is her boss? Somebody in the administration holds her leash. How about a letter to the Editor of the local paper illustratiing the harassment of regular citizens by heavy-handed campus securi-goons? |
... outside their jurisdiction, no less.
|
|
|
|
09/25/2008 10:16:16 AM · #10 |
| Hmm. We're all assuming you're NOT a rapist without any evidence that you didn't get your rape on later that evening. Where's the justice in that?! ;) |
|
|
|
09/25/2008 10:18:16 AM · #11 |
Originally posted by CEJ:
Just got off the phone with the local police after talking again to the Security office. The head of security basically said she would not accept a complaint since in her view her "officers do an outstanding job protecting the students and I feel you are being overly sensitive to a non-issue." Bah!
The local police said they would take my complaint but basically since they were separate departments and that no law was actually broken, there was not much they would or could do.
I got two pictures of the officer and two of his truck pointed right at me, at an angle and not in a parking spot, with high beams on.
And just because I want to, I will be back on Spring Street tonight to attempt to get the pictures I was prevented from getting last night. |
Don't settle for that BS! The Security Office can't refuse to take your complaint just because they don't want to! All colleges have a PR person who works close to the administration - find out who that person is and contact them and complain. Also contact the Vice-President in charge of Internal Affairs, and possibly the one in charge of External Affairs. If need be, call all the way up to the President to complain.
Most colleges are very concerned about their relationships with the community and the public - if you raise enough hell with the right people, they'll listen. The Security Office won't scold one of their own, but when the administration comes down on them, the message will get across. The officers wouldn't be allowed to harass a student on campus; they definitely shouldn't be harassing someone off campus!
As  cpanaioti suggested, call the local paper and talk to someone there. They're usually interested in such things.
|
|
|
|
09/25/2008 10:39:13 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by OdysseyF22:
As cpanaioti suggested, call the local paper and talk to someone there. They're usually interested in such things. |
I would so do that...or even a local news station where they confront people with their cameras
|
|
|
|
09/25/2008 11:23:25 AM · #13 |
Okay, so today at 12:30 I have an appointment at the Williamstown Police department to file my complaint. The head of Public Relations and the head of Security for Williams will be there. I was asked to bring my pictures showing the officer covering his name badge (which he did when he approached me) as well as his vehicle parked as I described when he was shining his high beams on me. So off to make some quick prints and then downtown. They originally asked me to bring my camera and relented when I said I would make prints of the shots as well as supply them on a CD for them.
This should be fun. They asked how they would know the pictures were taken when I said they were and I explained EXIF data to them. Of course they didn't understand that so I will print that out for each shot and bring that as well. |
|
|
|
09/25/2008 12:07:42 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by CEJ:
Okay, so today at 12:30 I have an appointment at the Williamstown Police department to file my complaint. The head of Public Relations and the head of Security for Williams will be there. I was asked to bring my pictures showing the officer covering his name badge (which he did when he approached me) as well as his vehicle parked as I described when he was shining his high beams on me. So off to make some quick prints and then downtown. They originally asked me to bring my camera and relented when I said I would make prints of the shots as well as supply them on a CD for them.
This should be fun. They asked how they would know the pictures were taken when I said they were and I explained EXIF data to them. Of course they didn't understand that so I will print that out for each shot and bring that as well. |
Good for you Chris. I'm not expecting any disciplinary action towards the securi-goon ( thanks Spazzmo99, I like it ) but at least he'll know that we're not all sheep who will tolerate this kind of abuse. Can't wait to see what happens. |
|
|
|
09/25/2008 12:27:22 PM · #15 |
thread = watched
can't wait to hear the outcome! :) |
|
|
|
09/25/2008 12:40:42 PM · #16 |
There are times when I am quite thankful I am a small, non-descript, unattractive older female. I rarely get hassled. I have been told in department stores in the US that I cannot take photographs there. And was once told I could not take pictures at an open air shopping strip in Santa Barbara. Though I did feel compelled to take this shot:
[thumb]724913[/thumb]
My favorite is rule #6: "Wearing apparel or gesturing in a manner which is likely to provoke a disturbance or embroil other groups or the general public in open conflict. You must be fully clothed while at the Center."
Who comes up with these things??
Good luck, Chris! I'll be watching to see what the outcome is. And hope you get your shots, too. |
|
|
|
09/25/2008 01:36:49 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
How about a letter to the Editor of the local paper ... |
I agree that a letter-to-the-editor would be an excellent way of bringing to public attention the current hysteria about people with cameras.
As for the jerk who kept ruining your shots -- what could his motivation have been? Did he really imagine he was protecting anyone or anything by preventing you from photographing a store front?
Above all, don't lose your head when dealing with these people again.
Cheers, |
|
|
|
09/25/2008 01:49:06 PM · #18 |
| Some guys are bored, and/or bad apples. I think most of them are just trying to pass the time. All of my encounters with security guards so far have been pleasant. The one encounter I had with a Sheriff was terrifying. |
|
|
|
09/25/2008 03:32:43 PM · #19 |
Wow! What a total load of crap! Okay, so I arrive, materials in hand, calm, knowing I am totally in the right and the security guy is in the wrong. No matter how you want to paint it, he is wrong. At least the Williamstown Police agreed with me.
First: The head of security did not say one word the whole time...almost. It was the Head of PR who did all the talking. They were there when I arrived and obviously already in a discussion. The first words out of anyone's mouth after introductions was from the PR guy...
PR: The officer states he was immediately suspicious of your activities as you appeared intoxicated. He states he witnessed you loitering on the street for no apparent reason.
Me: Okay, well, if I was intoxicated last night, would there still be alcohol in my system today?
WPO: Yes, there would be detectable amounts. Why?
Me: Well, I would be willing to take a blood test or breathylizer or whatever to see if there is in fact alcohol in my system of any amount.
WPO: Why would you be willing to do that?
Me: Because first this officer says he thought I was a potential rapist and that was his excuse. Now, before anything else is said, I am told he is accusing me of being intoxicated in public. I don't drink so therefore there would not be now, nor any other time, alcohol in my system.
PR: Okay, so let's put that aside. You are accusing one of our officers of harassing you in the course of your personal business. That is a serious charge.
WPO: Chris, did you bring the pictures?
Me: Yes. (I hand him two copies of each as well as two CD's containing the print copies as well as copies of the RAW files and explained what each was to him.)
PR: I would like to see those please!
WPO: I believe he handed me two copies of each, here. (passes copies to PR and HoS...they look for at least two minutes without saying a word.)
WPO: Now, I understand the files are dated and I understand about EXIF information. This information will verify the date and time the pictures were taken?
Me: Yes. (WPO calls in another officer who takes the CD with the files on it and leaves)
WPO: (to me) I would like to resolve this without any formal complaints through our department if that is possible. But I understand that you were denied the opportunity to file a complaint this morning?
Me: Yes. I called the security office this morning and spoke to the head of the department. I was told "she would not accept a complaint since in her view her officers do an outstanding job protecting the students and she felt I was being overly sensitive to a non-issue."
WPO: This IS NOT a non issue and I believe you have every right to be upset. (at this point second officer returns and tells WPO that files/pictures were in fact taken last night at the times I specified and all pictures were clearly taken on Spring Street)
WPO: Okay Chris, how would you like to proceed?
Me: Well, I would like to not be harassed on public property by a security officer who has no authority there just because I am taking pictures. I would like assurances that this will not happen again and I believe the officer demonstrated an extreme lack of judgment and used his position as an officer to harass someone for no reason feeling nothing could be done to him or in retaliation. If it takes a formal comlplaint to do that, then I want to file a complaint...
PR: (interrupts me while I am speaking) If you feel a complaint is necessary then you just go ahead and file one. There will be no action taken against our officer. (at this point HoS taps PR guy on arm to stop him)
HoS: Chris, I would like to assure you that after careful consideration and looking at your photographic evidence, I will be taking disciplinary action.
WPO: Will this be a satisfactory resolution Chris?
Me: I think someone owes me an apology. I mean, that would at least be a nice gesture. I really don't want to make trouble or waves or anything, but I believe I was in the right, minding my own business and because of someone else's actions who should know better, I am here instead of in my office working.
WPO: (to PR and HoS) Well?
silence...more silence...even more silence
Me: Okay, officer, where are the papers I need to fill out for this complaint and can I have your copy of the pictures and CD to include with my complaint.
WPO: (slides three forms across the table to me and I take my pen out of my pocket) Take your time and just relate the facts as you have evidence to support.
Just as my pen is about to hit the paper...
HoS: I will have the officer in question write a formal letter of apology before the end of today and we can either mail it or you can pick it up at my office.
Me: I would prefer it be mailed to me
HoS: It will be in tomorrow mornings mail. If I deliver it right to the PO will it go in your box immediately?
Me: I am sure if you ask them they will put it directly in my box, yes.
WPO: Is this all settled then?
Me: If I get the apology, yes. Also, I will be out on Spring Street again tonight to try and get the pictures I was not able to get last night. Just to let you know. I don't have anything to worry about do I?
WPO: No. And if you do find yourself in a situation, call us immediately.
Meeting over. PR and HoS left without saying anything else. WPO asked if he could keep the photos and CD. I let him have them since I have the originals.
Okay, fun over. Now I got an inbox full of work to be done.
NOTE: Transcript courtesy of my wife's digital voice recorder.
|
|
|
|
09/25/2008 03:38:48 PM · #20 |
lol wow..... all that for a letter of apology.... but at least from what I read it seems like the WPO was nice and helpful atleast....
glad you did something about it though
I just cant believe they change their story to you being drunk now
Message edited by author 2008-09-25 15:39:37.
|
|
|
|
09/25/2008 03:50:07 PM · #21 |
LOL two thumbs up for the WPO. that's just great, I hope you get the letter, good for you for standing up to these halfwits. The PR and HoS should both be reprimanded for their actions as well. Good to see the WPO stayed professional and actually took it all seriously.
*high 5*
-dave |
|
|
|
09/25/2008 04:04:21 PM · #22 |
I would think the trust-factor for that security guard by the HoS will be greatly decreased. I wonder if he's going to end up on foot-patrol outside the college cafeteria. I suppose the HoS showed up with a simple Cover-My-Ass goal.
In my professional experience, PR people are just freaks. ;-)
Good for you for hammering your point home!
|
|
|
|
09/25/2008 04:22:11 PM · #23 |
Chris,
Way to go man! Unfortunately I can't say I'm surprised that you were harassed nor am I surprised that you got the run-around after. I applaud you for sticking-to-your-guns and following through with the meeting. Just an apology is less than you deserve but more than I expected you'd get. I personally think that you should have been assured that a letter of reprimand would be in the security officer's file as well. I hope you share the letter of apology when you receive it.
Score 1 for the good guys!
In case my comment comes off as being totally disrespectful to the campus security. I have a daughter in college and I hope that the security officers on her campus are enthusiastic about protecting her too. But I also hope that they have the judgment to identify and address real threats not just the zeal to create situations out of nothing because of their position of authority.
|
|
|
|
09/25/2008 04:38:28 PM · #24 |
Sounds like you did a great job!
Note that the USPS will still require proper postage be affixed to the letter in order to put it in your PO box, even if it's hand-delivered to the appropriate branch. :-) |
|
|
|
09/25/2008 04:44:48 PM · #25 |
Thanks for you posting Chris,
I hope that you post a copy of the letter you get. (if you get it)
And thanks for standing up for your rights!! |
|
Home -
Challenges -
Community -
League -
Photos -
Cameras -
Lenses -
Learn -
Help -
Terms of Use -
Privacy -
Top ^
DPChallenge, and website content and design, Copyright © 2001-2025 Challenging Technologies, LLC.
All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission.
Current Server Time: 08/26/2025 06:59:07 PM EDT.
