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09/16/2008 09:13:24 PM · #51 |
An excerpt from a 'Letter to the Editor' piece I read today:
"Obama supporters counter the "experience" argument by drawing comparisons to Sarah Palin. They compare their number-one seed with the Republican's number two. Open-minded, objective voters should keep this in mind.
Credible arguments can be made in defense of Palin's experience. A number of former governors have become president. But that misses the real point. Every Obama-Palin comparison is a Democratic admission of defeat on the issue of experience."
Link to full posting - McCain is on the ticket, and he's the right man
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09/16/2008 09:22:57 PM · #52 |
| Actually, Obama supporters counter the experience argument by pointing out great U.S. presidents who had similar or less experience. McCain is the one who played that card as "important" and then appointed a running mate who didn't meet his own criteria. The comparison then becomes valid both for its sheer hypocrisy and for the greater-than-normal likelihood that she could wind up BEING the "number one seed." |
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09/16/2008 09:52:51 PM · #53 |
Putting hyperbole aside for a second, I will say that I have some worry about McCain potentially being even more of a hawk than Bush. That honestly worries me. While the next president will only have limited ability to invade another country thanks to our armed forces being stretched thin, I worry that McCain would be much more likely to go with "what he knows" (ie. as a vet and head of the armed forces committee) when it comes to Iran. At this point, I honestly think we need to take a step back and return to diplomacy. Not necessarily diplomacy with Iran, but diplomacy with our allies which we have more or less pushed aside under Bush. Presenting a united front against Iran is more likely to accomplish something without having to resort to another war. While I don't think Iran would pose a quantum change as far as military opponent, I do think that a) they would be more capable of defending themselves than Iraq and b) Russia and/or China is only going to stand for so much of us flexing our muscle before they actually do something about it. That, my friends, is something we do not want and something the American public would have very little stomach for compared to blowing up Sunnis with precision guided bombs.
Just knowing that Europe greatly favors Obama (52% vs. 15% in a poll) and knowing that Obama answer foreign questions more often with the word "diplomacy" makes me more likely to trust him with our future.
That's an honest opinion. Not tit-for-tat politicking these threads generally encourage (and I've been a participant of). |
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09/16/2008 11:50:01 PM · #54 |
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
Carly Fiorina (Advisor to McCain and short list VP pick) was asked if she thought that Palin had the experience to run a major corporation and she said no. She also said that McCain didn't have enough experience to run one either. |
She also said that Obama doesn't have enough experience to run a major corporation, and neither does Biden. The full quote:
Originally posted by Carly Fiorina:
"I don̢۪t think John McCain could run a major corporation. I don̢۪t think Barack Obama could run a major corporation. I don̢۪t think Joe Biden could run a major corporation. But on the other hand a major corporation is not the same as being the president or vice president of the United States. It is a fallacy to suggest that the country is like a company. So of course to run a business you have to have a lifetime of experience in business, but that̢۪s not what Sarah Palin, John McCain, Joe Biden or Barack Obama are doing." |
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09/17/2008 12:09:55 AM · #55 |
Originally posted by RonB:
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
Carly Fiorina (Advisor to McCain and short list VP pick) was asked if she thought that Palin had the experience to run a major corporation and she said no. She also said that McCain didn't have enough experience to run one either. |
She also said that Obama doesn't have enough experience to run a major corporation, and neither does Biden. The full quote:
Originally posted by Carly Fiorina:
"I don̢۪t think John McCain could run a major corporation. I don̢۪t think Barack Obama could run a major corporation. I don̢۪t think Joe Biden could run a major corporation. But on the other hand a major corporation is not the same as being the president or vice president of the United States. It is a fallacy to suggest that the country is like a company. So of course to run a business you have to have a lifetime of experience in business, but that̢۪s not what Sarah Palin, John McCain, Joe Biden or Barack Obama are doing." |
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Funny how we see/hear/read what we want to and skip over the truth to make it fit our (people in general) POV. |
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09/17/2008 12:28:38 AM · #56 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by RonB:
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
Carly Fiorina (Advisor to McCain and short list VP pick) was asked if she thought that Palin had the experience to run a major corporation and she said no. She also said that McCain didn't have enough experience to run one either. |
She also said that Obama doesn't have enough experience to run a major corporation, and neither does Biden. The full quote:
Originally posted by Carly Fiorina:
"I don̢۪t think John McCain could run a major corporation. I don̢۪t think Barack Obama could run a major corporation. I don̢۪t think Joe Biden could run a major corporation. But on the other hand a major corporation is not the same as being the president or vice president of the United States. It is a fallacy to suggest that the country is like a company. So of course to run a business you have to have a lifetime of experience in business, but that̢۪s not what Sarah Palin, John McCain, Joe Biden or Barack Obama are doing." |
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Funny how we see/hear/read what we want to and skip over the truth to make it fit our (people in general) POV. |
Funny, they better have the requisite experience or we are screwed. The national budget is business, running the federal government is business. I paraphrased for the sake of argument and my truth is so far removed from any of this partisan pandering that I missed nothing. All the candidates suck in my mind but with the game as it is, I will stick with the ivy league lawyer type after all that is what rules in Washington. Further I would suggest that if you have faith in either candidate you are the one skipping over the most in your face of truths, you are being lied to and you are buying it ...
Message edited by author 2008-09-17 00:37:15. |
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09/17/2008 12:41:38 AM · #57 |
Originally posted by RonB:
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
Carly Fiorina (Advisor to McCain and short list VP pick) was asked if she thought that Palin had the experience to run a major corporation and she said no. She also said that McCain didn't have enough experience to run one either. |
She also said that Obama doesn't have enough experience to run a major corporation, and neither does Biden. |
Hmm.... wasn't that the same person who laid off 25,700 people the same year her salary went from $1.2 million to $4.1 million, and who was eventually fired for poor performance after the company she ran lost half its market value? This other guy seems to think Obama could do just fine managing the economy. |
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09/17/2008 08:42:23 AM · #58 |
I'm trying to figure out why McCain has Carly Fiorina as an advisor. Didn't she completely tank HP's stock by making a number of horrible decisions (for example, buying Compaq Computer). Decisions she was the cheif engineer of? Full Metal Blame...
Then there's Phil Gramm who wrote McCains econimic plan/policy...who called us a
"nation of whiners" claiming that we are going through a "mental recession".
Check out all these metally recessed folks, whining their way to the unemployment line.
It's dazzling that he's ahead in the polls but that's what happens when people vote or choose their candidates based on parochial issues and not issues that are quickly driving us into a very deep hole.
If we miss this prime opportunity to lead in Green tech and new energy enterprises, which the present admin pissed on, we might have no way to get back on track as a world leader.
My guess is that Scandanavia and the rest of Europe will be the new leaders and make huge profits off of new energy tech.
We've accelerated our move backwards.
Message edited by author 2008-09-17 09:27:25. |
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09/17/2008 09:21:52 AM · #59 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Obama is the LEAST qualified person in this race. He's done nothing. Nothing. Nothing. He gives a good speech, but they are hollow. Some have likened his speeches to Chinese food, where it's pleasing at the moment, but an hour later you have nothing. |
I'd be interesting in hearing from you which of the 16 bills McCain has sponsored and have become law in his 27 years you consider to be important. |
You're so right which just goes to show how stupid Americans truly are. These candidates are the best, most qualified we could find? |
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09/17/2008 09:36:47 AM · #60 |
The McCain-Feingold Act?
What a doozy. The major impact of that legslation was that we now hear...
"I'm [insert candidate's name] and I approve this message."
BFD!
The stuff that makes Mavericks...huh?
Nobody has experience to do the job of President unless they have already been President.
It's how quickly you are able to learn, maneuver and adapt that is what makes a good President. How hard they are willing to work, study...listen are key qualities. |
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09/17/2008 09:38:07 AM · #61 |
Which attacks and statements are true?
politifact.org - attacks
politifact.org - statements
Plus: everybody does it (flip-flops): politifact.org - flipflops
Message edited by author 2008-09-17 09:43:12. |
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09/17/2008 09:54:40 AM · #62 |
I think it's funny that the media cared so much about this comment. It assumes that she somehow finds all of these people inferior on economics, and that she knows them well enough to make that judgment. A bit cocky if you ask me. But after looking into it a bit, it occured to me that if McCain chose HER as his running mate, he might be better off. At least this woman's head is not in the clouds.
EDIT: I just realized something - she's not eye-candy â€Â¦ and she probably is more controversial â€Â¦ and she would be seen as "big business" as opposed to a hockey mom.
Originally posted by Carly Fiorina:
"I don̢۪t think John McCain could run a major corporation. I don̢۪t think Barack Obama could run a major corporation. I don̢۪t think Joe Biden could run a major corporation. But on the other hand a major corporation is not the same as being the president or vice president of the United States. It is a fallacy to suggest that the country is like a company. So of course to run a business you have to have a lifetime of experience in business, but that̢۪s not what Sarah Palin, John McCain, Joe Biden or Barack Obama are doing." |
[/quote]
Message edited by author 2008-09-17 10:08:31. |
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09/17/2008 10:03:59 AM · #63 |
Btw, I was dismayed last night when I saw some in the Obama camp trying to make a big story out of the fact that a McCain advisor said McCain helped create the Blackberry. It's the same kind of media uproar over non-news as was the ridiculous pig-in-lipstick story.
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09/17/2008 10:05:52 AM · #64 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I'm guessing some people (including myself) will fault Palin on her foreign affairs experience. Obama, McCain, and Biden, having all been in Washington, are likely well aware of foreign affairs and have met foreign heads of state (at least in addresses if not privately). Palin, on the other hand, was the governor of a backwater state (third smallest by population), never even had a passport until a few years ago, and likely had no need to understand our diplomatic positions with foreign countries in the day-to-day running of our country. With any of the three senators, this would not be true. |
I agree with DrAchoo, and would add that Obama, McCain & Biden also have much more experience looking at the U.S. as a whole when dealing with domestic issues. I think she is lacking not only in foreign affairs experience, but also in general U.S. policy experience. |
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09/17/2008 10:20:10 AM · #65 |
Originally posted by Phil:
You're so right which just goes to show how stupid Americans truly are. These candidates are the best, most qualified we could find? |
This is also a problem with the two-party system. Why do voters only consider Democrats and Republicans? If I weren't so horrified by McCain and the GOP, I would vote for a "third" party, just like I did in 1996. |
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09/17/2008 10:20:19 AM · #66 |
To me, the 'funny' thing is, the fundamental beliefs of Palin and the Republicans in general, are really the issue here.
The party wants it both ways: "small" government AND exorbitant spending on what they see is important (not to mention things like the Patriot Act, warrantless wire-tapping, Guantanemo) â€Â¦ meanwhile the consumer pays for the WAR in Iraq that reveals the TRUE cost of oil! - while the oil companies reap the true rewards as the tax payers pay for the fight.
It's crazy that the Repubs are even close in the polls â€Â¦ EVEN IF WE ASSUME EVERYONE IS QUALIFIED! |
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09/17/2008 10:26:16 AM · #67 |
Originally posted by Bebe:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I'm guessing some people (including myself) will fault Palin on her foreign affairs experience. Obama, McCain, and Biden, having all been in Washington, are likely well aware of foreign affairs and have met foreign heads of state (at least in addresses if not privately). Palin, on the other hand, was the governor of a backwater state (third smallest by population), never even had a passport until a few years ago, and likely had no need to understand our diplomatic positions with foreign countries in the day-to-day running of our country. With any of the three senators, this would not be true. |
I agree with DrAchoo, and would add that Obama, McCain & Biden also have much more experience looking at the U.S. as a whole when dealing with domestic issues. I think she is lacking not only in foreign affairs experience, but also in general U.S. policy experience. |
Actually, I would agree with you on McCain/Biden but I have a hard time believing that a person who has only been in the senate for 3+ years and campaigned for the Presidency for 2 of those would hardly be considered experienced in pretty much anything. |
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09/17/2008 10:26:17 AM · #68 |
It always comes back to this, guys. And I post my link to instant runoff voting which would ease people's worries about throwing away their vote.
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by Phil:
You're so right which just goes to show how stupid Americans truly are. These candidates are the best, most qualified we could find? |
This is also a problem with the two-party system. Why do voters only consider Democrats and Republicans? If I weren't so horrified by McCain and the GOP, I would vote for a "third" party, just like I did in 1996. |
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09/17/2008 10:31:08 AM · #69 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by Phil:
You're so right which just goes to show how stupid Americans truly are. These candidates are the best, most qualified we could find? |
This is also a problem with the two-party system. Why do voters only consider Democrats and Republicans? If I weren't so horrified by McCain and the GOP, I would vote for a "third" party, just like I did in 1996. |
I agree completely. I also voted for a third-party candidate in 2000 and 2004, but I think the country is in such dire straits now and McCain/Palin would be so disastrous that I can no longer take the high road and vote my true convictions. On the other hand, if Obama is elected, he might turn out to be one of the most progressive presidents this country has ever had. |
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09/17/2008 10:31:56 AM · #70 |
Originally posted by Phil:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Obama is the LEAST qualified person in this race. He's done nothing. Nothing. Nothing. He gives a good speech, but they are hollow. Some have likened his speeches to Chinese food, where it's pleasing at the moment, but an hour later you have nothing. |
I'd be interesting in hearing from you which of the 16 bills McCain has sponsored and have become law in his 27 years you consider to be important. |
You're so right which just goes to show how stupid Americans truly are. These candidates are the best, most qualified we could find? |
They're the only ones crazy enough to want the job. |
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09/17/2008 10:33:45 AM · #71 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by Phil:
You're so right which just goes to show how stupid Americans truly are. These candidates are the best, most qualified we could find? |
This is also a problem with the two-party system. Why do voters only consider Democrats and Republicans? If I weren't so horrified by McCain and the GOP, I would vote for a "third" party, just like I did in 1996. |
If my mind isn't changed I'll be going the third party route again this year.
I truly believe that if enough interest is shown in a third party by Americans it could shake up the D vs R crap that is so prevalent in Washington (and society as is evidenced by forums like this). |
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09/17/2008 10:41:49 AM · #72 |
This is the experienced man who half of Americans want in office? Look at the video and tell me this man is well prepared, suited, ready, and capable of making a decision about anything?
I don't want to sound mean but the United States of America will be knee deep in shit if this man is elected. I fear for my freedom and every thing I cherish when I see this old, withered relic from history talk about issues that so many deem important but this shallow empty person has nothing to say about it. He's still living in the 50's! I mean he's 72 years old and he can't even formulate a response to get the reporter off his back. What kind of experience is that?
I rather see a man who has no experience and give it his full effort by trying new ideas and by listening to the people than see an old relic from the 50's impose his tired old policies on a country that's been clamoring for change the past 3 or 4 years. I was afraid of my liberties being taken away by GWB and his war on terror bullcrap but now I'll fear something else if this fossil gets elected, my life.
Obama is the man to lead the US back to where it was pre 911. He already has the respect of many world leaders and this can only help the US in the long run. How many leaders can say that about Bush today?
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09/17/2008 10:43:34 AM · #73 |
Originally posted by Phil:
Actually, I would agree with you on McCain/Biden but I have a hard time believing that a person who has only been in the senate for 3+ years and campaigned for the Presidency for 2 of those would hardly be considered experienced in pretty much anything. |
Lincoln had roughly the same experience and was out of politics completely for several years before his skill as an orator propelled him to political prominence and ultimately the presidency. You could be a CEO, senator or governor for 30 years and still lack the capacity or wisdom to lead a country. |
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09/17/2008 10:48:23 AM · #74 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Phil:
Actually, I would agree with you on McCain/Biden but I have a hard time believing that a person who has only been in the senate for 3+ years and campaigned for the Presidency for 2 of those would hardly be considered experienced in pretty much anything. |
Lincoln had roughly the same experience and was out of politics completely for several years before his skill as an orator propelled him to political prominence and ultimately the presidency. You could be a CEO, senator or governor for 30 years and still lack the capacity or wisdom to lead a country. |
Okay. And? |
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09/17/2008 10:54:55 AM · #75 |
Despite his choice for VP, McCain's views on women are inexcusable, especially for someone who owes much of his lifestyle to his wife's wealth. The same wife he called a "c-word" in front of reporters. How about his first wife, the one he cheated on and dumped after she became injured in a car accident? He's the man who believes that women in the workplace are only fractionally as valuable as a man doing the same work.
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