DPC Olympics III-A (Alternate Scoring)

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II

09/12/2008 11:41:33 AM · #1

In light of the change in plans for scoring the DPCOIII, I've decided to implement an alternate scoring system. dirt_diver's scoring will still be the official one, but in order to see how the originally intended scoring system would have worked, I'll be tabulating in that fashion.

Nothing new needs to be done. Same teams will be used. This will just be taking the scores and applying a different methodology. Since the two methods are so different it's not like a subtle change to undermine the official scores. But a nice, friendly "what-if" that all can enjoy.

SCORING

I will be getting the list of playerrs and take their last 10 scores (as of Sunday's final if applicable) to generate their starting average.

Each week, the final score for the challenge will be compared to the starting score to get a +/- for each player. The top five +/- for the team will be aggregated to a score for the team. If less than five players enter for a team, then a -2 difference will be their score. ONLY FIVE SCORES PER TEAM will count.

This team over/under will be cumulative for the entire Olympics. A leaderboard will be posted each week, but no winners declared until the end of the season.

Any suggestions on this?

basssman7

Nikon D500

09/12/2008 03:06:25 PM · #2

I like it...

cpanaioti

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO IS USM

09/12/2008 03:07:18 PM · #3

It will be an interesting comparison.

09/12/2008 03:32:18 PM · #4

Great so now I don't have to do make this.. Thanks
Also to save you some time you don't need to calculate the last 10 scores as it will have no effect on the outcome of the numbers. you can start with their base average, and it will save you a crap load of time.

Message edited by author 2008-09-12 15:33:43.

09/12/2008 03:35:56 PM · #5

Also you can see this post here.

//www.dpchallenge.com/forum.php?action=read&FORUM_THREAD_ID=820525&page=1#4950967

Message edited by author 2008-09-12 15:37:02.

09/12/2008 03:39:05 PM · #6

Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:

You were going to do this?

Also, I don't follow why the averaging won't help. That doesn't make any sense.

09/12/2008 03:40:34 PM · #7

Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:

Also you can see this post here.

//www.dpchallenge.com/forum.php?action=read&FORUM_THREAD_ID=820525&page=1#4950967

I let basssman7 know of my plans so he could stick with it if he wanted and it appears he still does. So this is cool.

Again, yours is still the official one.

09/12/2008 03:44:00 PM · #8

I was going to but you got now.

I can help you with it if you want but it just makes my work less.

And as the averages go you can just use their base score from their profile page. The only difference from using the profile average and the last 10 is the actual number other than that it's still going to give you a base score to "start with" and the algorithm will still be the same and it would calculate the same "average +/- that you are looking for.

Nikon AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 28-70mm f/2.8D IF-ED

09/12/2008 03:44:45 PM · #9

Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:

Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:
Also you can see this post here.

//www.dpchallenge.com/forum.php?action=read&FORUM_THREAD_ID=820525&page=1#4950967

I let basssman7 know of my plans so he could stick with it if he wanted and it appears he still does. So this is cool.

Again, yours is still the official one.

No really that's cool I think it's great that you want to do this. I'm all for it really. Let me know if I can help

hihosilver

Nikon D200

09/12/2008 03:46:35 PM · #10

Ummmm...where will this alternative set be posted?

Tamron AF 70-200mm f/2.8 Di LD IF Macro Lens for Sony

09/12/2008 03:57:09 PM · #11

dunno

bobnospum

Sony Alpha a99 II

09/12/2008 03:59:46 PM · #12

Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:

Just to read between the lines, I think HawkEye is suggesting that using the last 10 challenges is somehow "more representitive" of someone's current skills, rather than saying the it will affect math for the scoring calculations. If you have been here for 50 challenges and you first 40 averaged 5.0 and you last 10 have averaged 6.0 (because of our great comments!) beating your overall average will be easy. Using the the last 10 average will be harder. Of course, if your last 10 are below your overall average (because of our lousy comments!) then the reverse is true :)

09/12/2008 04:09:18 PM · #13

Originally posted by bobnospum:

Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:
I was going to but you got now.

I can help you with it if you want but it just makes my work less.

And as the averages go you can just use their base score from their profile page. The only difference from using the profile average and the last 10 is the actual number other than that it's still going to give you a base score to "start with" and the algorithm will still be the same and it would calculate the same "average +/- that you are looking for.

Just to read between the lines, I think HawkEye is suggesting that using the last 10 challenges is somehow "more representitive" of someone's current skills, rather than saying the it will affect math for the scoring calculations. If you have been here for 50 challenges and you first 40 averaged 5.0 and you last 10 have averaged 6.0 (because of our great comments!) beating your overall average will be easy. Using the the last 10 average will be harder. Of course, if your last 10 are below your overall average (because of our lousy comments!) then the reverse is true :)

I understand and it's up to him the way he wants to do it but I just didn't see the point in someone trying to beat their average score as an olympic style of scoring. Don't get me wrong I think trying to beat my overall average score is great but to do that I will just join up for the FSM and better than avg tourney.

The scoring system I decided on will more than likely generate a whole different set of winners so FWIW everyone be ready to see that.

The way I did set up scoring is based on the simplest math of 1-16|16-1. It will give out a true "which team beat which team". The "O" points will not give another team any advantage over another because all 16 teams will end up averaging it all out. All it does is keeps the teams from a tie.

09/12/2008 04:27:19 PM · #14

Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:

Except, like golf, I want their recent average -- people should improve over time.

09/12/2008 04:27:50 PM · #15

Originally posted by hihosilver:

Ummmm...where will this alternative set be posted?

photographyvoice,com

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

09/12/2008 04:40:07 PM · #16

Ive been helping DD with some of the code on the scoring system. I also, was / am a big advocate of changing the scoring system from last DPCO. I think padding teams with good and not as good players was a great idea (I think it was

HawkeyeLonewolf) . The trick is, DD is making an attempt at making everyone happy here. The Polish want the old scoring style, Id personally like something different. A lot of other folks want a better than average scoring style.

In the end there is 120 players DD is trying make happy with a scorign style. The way he chose was the way he felt was best. Did I totally agree when he told me? maybe not, but I realize, I dont know what the outcome with look like and frankly either does anyone else. But the least credit you could give him is to give it a try. Additionally, the scoring method could work out great.

That beign said, I appreciate

HawkeyeLonewolf doing the extra scoring and think it will deternime how the Olympics are scored from now on. Let me know if i can help with anything.

Message edited by author 2008-09-12 18:06:17.

Jaker

Nikon D40X

09/12/2008 04:42:42 PM · #17

You guys like math a LOT more than I do. Thanks to you both for handling all of the behind the scenes mechanics and such!

basssman7

Nikon D500

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II

09/12/2008 07:37:45 PM · #18

Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:

I think it will be an interesting experiment, and I thank both of you for taking this on. My own personal preference would have been a combo of the two. To use the "beat your average" as bonus points on top of the 1-16 scoring points. So then the high average teams will still be most likely to get the 1-16 points, but the lower average teams can still compete by beating their average.

That being said, the straight "beat your average" scoring will be very interesting to watch. :)

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II

09/12/2008 08:41:40 PM · #19

You know, its funny. I just cant seem to shake the feeling that this whole thing about alternate score is rubbing your nose at

Dirt_Diver and the work hes done in these olympic games.

Message edited by author 2008-09-12 20:42:41.

basssman7

Nikon D500

09/12/2008 08:50:40 PM · #20

Originally posted by onesaint:

You know, its funny. I just cant seem to shake the feeling that this whole thing about alternate score is rubbing your nose at Dirt_Diver and the work hes done in these olympic games.

Actually if you went to the Team Beaver thread you would see where Dirt_Diver offered to provide the alternative scoring himself. HawkeyeLonewolf is simply saving him the pain in the butt of doing so.

I have been the most vocal person about wanting the "beat your average bonus" included in the games because it was originally promised that way when we signed up.

It has nothing to do with trying to make Joe look bad. Joe as I mentioned was going to keep track of the alternative score himself anyways. I have a lot of respect and admiration for Joe and the hours he has put in and will put in to make this happen. It is a ton of work to keep track of, and he wants to do it to help make dpc a better place and I applaud that.

cynthiann

Nikon D810

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8

09/12/2008 08:52:45 PM · #21

Originally posted by onesaint:

You know, its funny. I just cant seem to shake the feeling that this whole thing about alternate score is rubbing your nose at Dirt_Diver and the work hes done in these olympic games.

What happened since your last post? You were very appreciative of both score systems, as I think a lot of us are. It should be very cool to watch both. I don't think there is any nose-rubbing going on, though I can kinda see how it would look that way.

I think it is really cool that you are helping DD and offering help to Hawkeye.

Can't wait to play!

09/12/2008 09:34:21 PM · #22

Originally posted by cynthiann:

Originally posted by onesaint:
You know, its funny. I just cant seem to shake the feeling that this whole thing about alternate score is rubbing your nose at Dirt_Diver and the work hes done in these olympic games.

What happened since your last post? You were very appreciative of both score systems, as I think a lot of us are. It should be very cool to watch both. I don't think there is any nose-rubbing going on, though I can kinda see how it would look that way.

I think it is really cool that you are helping DD and offering help to Hawkeye.

Can't wait to play!

Thank you Cynthiann. I am supportive of both systems, but each time I come across this thread it seems like although DD has been putting in work to keep this up, if people dont like what hes doing they just hijack it. I guess i think it should have been communicated to him that

HawkeyeLonewolf was planning on helping with the scoring. In the end though Im sure there was no harm meant.

09/13/2008 10:23:52 AM · #23

Originally posted by onesaint:

Originally posted by cynthiann:

Originally posted by onesaint:
You know, its funny. I just cant seem to shake the feeling that this whole thing about alternate score is rubbing your nose at Dirt_Diver and the work hes done in these olympic games.

What happened since your last post? You were very appreciative of both score systems, as I think a lot of us are. It should be very cool to watch both. I don't think there is any nose-rubbing going on, though I can kinda see how it would look that way.

I think it is really cool that you are helping DD and offering help to Hawkeye.

Can't wait to play!

Thank you Cynthiann. I am supportive of both systems, but each time I come across this thread it seems like although DD has been putting in work to keep this up, if people dont like what hes doing they just hijack it. I guess i think it should have been communicated to him that HawkeyeLonewolf was planning on helping with the scoring. In the end though Im sure there was no harm meant.

I didn't see dirt_diver's post in the other thread until after I came up with this idea, but I think I presented it with proper deference to his means being official. But no harm was meant as you said. It's really no different that the posthumous awards thread being an alternate to the voter's choice.