Wedding Camera Settings - Tired of Disappointment

Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM

08/28/2008 04:17:40 PM · #1

So, I have been shooting more and more weddings; and, though most of my shots come out well (many, amazing), I always have those few that really disappoint me - soft focus.

I am not sure if I'm just a glutton for bad lighting, but I always end up having to use my flash (with Softbox II) to light the scene. So many yellow candles and sconces, so many unlit hallways, so many tight and cluttered scenes.

I see all of these amazing shots by Greg Bumatay and Jessica Claire; and, I wonder how in the world do they get so lucky with great lighting and uncluttered spaces! Also, what settings (f-stop, shutter, mm, flash settings) do they use?!

I shoot with a 40D, 16-35mm f2.8, 24-70 f2.8, 70-200 f2.8, 580ex (original), and a SoftboxII. I shoot in AV mode if the lighting is bright enough and in P mode if the lighting is mixed. I know M, but ceremonies go by too fast to have to think about settings; so, I prefer P mode since I use a fill flash. With this, I am limited to 1/60th to 1/250th. I don't mind the 1/250th, but the 1/60th really causes problems for me. I have so many photos of people on the dance-floor or walking by that are slightly blurry. Not much, but slightly - enough to really upset me and cause me to miss some great shots.

During the group photos, I usually shoot with f8 or higher, but I find A-DEP has been working too. Even so, I get some people clear and some slightly off. I am really not sure how to resolve this? I take a few shots of each pose, and some are perfect; so, that's good. Still, I may get the best smile in one of the soft-focus ones. I really prefer to blur the background (groups are usually about or over 10 feet away from me and background is often just a few feet behind them; but, I will still end up with soft-faces! I'd like to get the background blurred a bit, but keep all of the people clear. Is that too much to ask?! I can do it if it's a small group, but large groups are baffling me.

How do you all overcome this issue and what settings do you mostly use for ceremonies, dance-floor and group shots (including flash)?

idnic

Canon EOS-60D

08/28/2008 04:20:25 PM · #2

AV mode - and especially P mode can be fooled by so many things in the scene that they often give you improper exposure. You will not be truly happy with your images, until you control the exposure 100% yourself. I was amazed how the quality of my work improved overall when I started shooting full manual all the time. Walk around for a few weeks in M and shoot everything you see, you'll have the hang of it in no time.

08/28/2008 04:22:14 PM · #3

I am pretty good with it, but I just don't trust myself enough during the ceremony not to forget to change the settings sometimes. I've done that before, and screwed up royally. I guess practice does make perfect, but most ceremonies are between 5 and 10 minutes these days... barely long enough to change lenses! :)

pamelasue

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

08/28/2008 04:30:15 PM · #4

Those were awesome links ... thanks for sharing!

Eyesup

Nikon D300

Sigma 70-200 /2.8 APO EX DG Macro HSM II

08/28/2008 04:32:07 PM · #5

I agree with idnic Manual Mode will help you alot... practice, practice, practice, and you'll get it... make your camera and settings as familiar to you as your arm itself. Ceremonies are really quick so know what you're going to shoot before hand, I'm sure you know by know that there are certain shoots from the ceremony that people want and some that they don't... focus on what they will want and make your lens and setting choices based on that... in a short ceremony you can only take so many pictures and so many angles... pic whats important and go with that

08/28/2008 04:40:05 PM · #6

Forget P mode.
Av for natural light and M for flash.
Av lets you pick the aperture (usually wide open - but 2.8 is going to be softer than F11, just as ISO 1000 is going to have more noise than 200 - it's part of shooting weddings and you'll get used to it).

Av and flash can have issues - the flash acts as fill up to a certain point and then switches over to main light duties, and shutte speeds can drop to 30 seconds - way too long to hand hold. So go to M - 1/40 to 1/60 range and ISO 800 at 2.8 to 4. Let the flash think it over and use FEC to adjust. Bounce the flash indoors and use a white card ( or LS or Omni, etc - whatever you like. I like a bounce card). GET CLOSE! Like under 10 feet. Keep your eye on the BG in regards to having a wall behind the subject that will show the shadow.

I too have wondered how some of these folks get such nice lighting - they see it and move the subject to the light and more often than not use the 85 1.2 at or near wide open. Not a cheap, nor light, solution I know.

For them walking down the aisle into the church you need M mode to make sure you've got fast enough shutter to stop the blur of them walking (even with flash). Use servo mode for focus. I've tried the deal where I prefocus on a given pew and shoot when they get there but then you get ONE shot at it. I prefer drive mode for this but every church around here is too dark for that.

You have the solution under your left hand - the C1, C2 and C3 modes. Once you get used to them they're handy as all get out! BUT it's easy to screw yourself up so KISS - keep it simple stupid applies here in spades! Just set C1 up as manual for flash use and then pop over to Av for the rest of the ceremony. Fast and foolproof. If you try and set up C1 as manual and C2 as AV and you're like me you'll get that backwards and well, you be mad at yourself.

M set at 800 / 1/60 and 2.8 is only a stop or 2 under most ambient wedding lighting so as long as you don't step outside you should be fine. THe flash only has to kick 1 or 2 stops of light so it's not too obvious that you've use flash and the batts will last a long time.

08/28/2008 04:52:26 PM · #7

Thanks for the info, everyone!

I usually shoot 400 (I hate noise) and 2.8 scares me at weddings since I don't want a strong DOF all the time. I want the whole face in focus, not just the eyes! Perhaps I just need to back up a few feet.

I usually shoot ceremonies without a problem. The aisle is a bit tricky though. I have had soft-focus issues when I want all subjects to be clear. Since I use zooms, I think this is more of a problem when I am close up. I try to use my 16-35mm during ceremonies (crop later). I switch to my 70-200mm for the rings exchange.

For the most part, I have always used one-shot instead of al-servo (worried that camera would find a guest to focus on or a bridesmaid instead of the bride). I also shoot with the center-focus point (focus on the face, then recompose).

It's the group shots and dance-floor that give me the most grief. My flash gets stuck on 1/60 in such dark lighting, and I can't seem to overcome that. When I switch to M, my flash is often way too bright. Yes, I do need it to be the primary light, not just a fill; but, damn, it's too bright and shiny most of the time! Also, my background disappears completely when I go up to 1/250th (to capture clear dancing, not blur).

I need to throw a few fake weddings to practice! Haha. I've shot so many professionally and have amazing shots enough to please the family and couple, but I want to be even better!

Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L USM

08/28/2008 05:09:47 PM · #8

Originally posted by mirdonamy:

I usually shoot 400 (I hate noise) and 2.8 scares me at weddings since I don't want a strong DOF all the time. I want the whole face in focus, not just the eyes! Perhaps I just need to back up a few feet.

Canon's designed their flash to work best as ISO 800. Also you're losing the BG at the reception for this reason. There is NO NOISE at 800 on a 40D. Some at 1000 and I see it above that. Just do not underexpose cause you'll get noise when you pull up the exposure later. I've got a second shooter with a 1D3 and he's using 3200 a lot of the time - you've got up up your ISO!

Originally posted by mirdonamy:

For the most part, I have always used one-shot instead of al-servo (worried that camera would find a guest to focus on or a bridesmaid instead of the bride). I also shoot with the center-focus point (focus on the face, then recompose).

I too used single shot and then tried servo - it works better for moving targets - far far better. YOu don't get the beep when you've locked focus though. Are you using the 'back button' for focus (*)? You can hold it in servo mode then just hit the shutter when you want to capture the image. focus is always on, always accurate.

You may be having issues with focus and recompose - //visual-vacations.com/Photography/focus-recompose_sucks.htm

Between the back button, servo and no more focus and recompose i've no more focus issues. I lose less than 5% of the images from a wedding for technical reasons (focus, exposure, etc). If only the 24-70 came in an IS version!

On the 40D all the points are cross points like the center point on 30D and earlier models so you should be able to use any of them even in low light/low contrast situations and get good focus lock. You can set the Joystick via Cfn's to move the focus point - it's easy to get used to (but still slower than the eye-focus canon used to offer in the film days)

Originally posted by mirdonamy:

It's the group shots and dance-floor that give me the most grief. My flash gets stuck on 1/60 in such dark lighting, and I can't seem to overcome that. When I switch to M, my flash is often way too bright. Yes, I do need it to be the primary light, not just a fill; but, damn, it's too bright and shiny most of the time! Also, my background disappears completely when I go up to 1/250th (to capture clear dancing, not blur).

Not sure what the group issue you're having is. I use a studio light and drag the shutter and have no problems. Even down to 1/8 second shutter speeds.

On the dance floor you don't need 1/250, ever. Go to M mode, ISO 800 and 3.5 and let the flash do it's work - bounced. The alternate is to bring extra lights and PWs and light up the whole friggin room. I bring a second strobe for the reception to assist during the boquet and such and shoot at 1/60 and have no issues unless it's the high speed catch of a guy and the garter - and that one shot is cool as it's only the hands that are blurred. I've got down to 1/30 and sometimes slower and get no motion blur of dancers (trying to get it for the cool effects)

Go second shoot, for free if need be, and try out new things then. No risk as you're shots are extra, especially if you're not getting paid!

Mr_Pants

SiPix Blink

08/28/2008 06:18:02 PM · #9

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

For what it's worth, I thoroughly second the use of Av in natural light. For me, it's much quicker, especially if going for 'grab' shots. Don't forget that, even in M mode, you're still using the camera's meter.

When it gets dark, definitely give M a go. Fortunately, I've been lucky enough (using a fast prime) to be able to get away with Av even at the reception, with flash for fill. It means that I have to trample over people to get the framing right. (only joking about the last part, I simply barge them out of the way)

Just a suggestion, but I always (when I remember, d'oh) FEL off the subjects' faces when using fill-flash. If, for instance taking a group shot, one focusses and recomposes so that the focus point ends up over a dark garment, the flash will normally try to light that up and really foul things up. FEL'ing (is that really a verb?) off the faces normally works well for me.

Patrick_R

Canon EOS-60D

08/28/2008 06:41:40 PM · #10

For the dancing set your camera to rear curtain sync. That way the frozen flash image is on top and not in the back. Helps with blur for me anyways.

08/28/2008 11:36:41 PM · #11

Wow, a lot to think about. So, can you guys help me...

1. what's FEL?
2. How do I set my camera to Real Curtain Sync?
3. I can't remember how to use the * for focus. I always use it to pop the flash for metering before a shot. How do I set that * for focus again?

Thanks a million for all of your help!

Mr_Pants

SiPix Blink

08/29/2008 02:12:48 AM · #12

Originally posted by mirdonamy:

FEL is flash exposure lock and it sounds as though you are doing it anyway. I've tried using the splat button for focussing, but can't get on with it, so I use the half-press of the shutter button anyway. Second curtain sync can be set on the flash unit itself. You're looking for a sort of 'double arrow' kind of symbol to be displayed.

08/29/2008 11:03:17 AM · #13

what flash are you using? The internal and 580-2 both are/can be controlled ffrom the 40D menu system - rear curtain sync is an option in there.

FEL - flash exposure lock. A flash in eTTL mode fires a pre-flash for metering purposes. FEL will do this and then lock the amount of flash that will be used, just like if you lock the exposure (by half pressing the shutter button).
Used to be Cfn 4 that did the * bit but now I'm not sure where in the menus it lives. When all else falls, RFM.

08/29/2008 11:51:01 PM · #14

I have been using FEL I guess :) Sometimes it makes my scene too bright though. I have to learn it better. :)

I'm using the 580ex I, not II. Can I still do rear curtain?