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08/25/2008 07:18:55 PM · #276 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
So, you lived on the dole while in school? Now here you are crying and moaning about people on those same programs? WTF? You should be ashamed of yourself for not getting a job and working so you could afford college and not doing it on the government dime. Given this and your previous posts, I'd say you're still ashamed of it and you attack people who support those programs to make yourself feel better.
A college education and a home may not be toys, but they're hardly necessary many people successfully go their whole lives without either. You could have been a plumber, a welder, electrician or any of a number of careers that didn't require a degree, yet you chose to mooch off the people. Do you really think your student loans are anything more than a handout? The government loses money on that program. I'll wager you got your share in grants too, another handout from the government. Unless you've paid back your loans, you're still on the dole, still sucking at the government teat, while condemning those who do the same. That's the very definition of hypocrisy.
You're no different than those you condemn...Oh wait, you are, you're a hypocrite too. |
-This isn't some major secret or revelation. I have stated this fact on this and other threads already. You make it seem like I have been hiding this..and it just happened to come out in the open. I have been out and open about my use of foodstamps...since the first thread on this subject. The fact that YOU can't read...or choose to selectively read..really isn't my problem.
-You are damned right I am ashamed of myself. There is nothing more demeaning that 'paying' for groceries with your EBT card. Anyone that has to rely on these programs should be ashamed.
-You are truly ignorant if you think you can be a welder, electrician or plumber without advavced training. That would also cost money (just like college)
-Student loans are not a handout. Perhaps, the subsidized version are...but you only get that if your family makes very little money. I qualified for unsubsized versions. I also recieved a scholarship for Forensics. Other then that...nada. I have had my interest building up since the very first loan that I took out...believe me..I am paying almost $500 a month just in student loan repayments.
-Hardly a hypocrite. Go look back at what I said we should reform the system to be..its modeled of off what worked for me. Instead of being addicted to state money...I am taking care of my family.
-I did not get a house or a car...until I graduated and could afford them. :D
Same for my digital camera...and my Xbox 360.
Message edited by author 2008-08-25 19:29:59. |
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08/25/2008 07:21:55 PM · #277 |
Originally posted by dponlyme:
You put the words on the page for all to read. You stated that I shouldn't have my children. I think you made your feelings quite clear. |
No. I didn't say your children should be taken from you. I said people who can't afford to feed their children..shouldn't have them. ( i mean, if you are not financially stable..you should never get pregnant IN THE FIRST PLACE..I figured that was abundantly clear) |
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08/25/2008 07:23:11 PM · #278 |
Originally posted by dponlyme:
You can choose not to believe me if you want but I do not relish milking the system. I aspire to not HAVE to use foodstamps. To this end I am making progress but I won't feel ashamed for what I thank God for. Maybe shame is a motivating force for you but it is not for me. My motivating force is my God and my children. [/b]
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God isn't paying your grocery bill...the state is.
As for my situation. It was quite differnt than yours. As I already stated...I didn't have children..except for that last six months. The rest of the time...I was just trying to get through school.
I stopped using foodstamps THE week that I stopped going to class. I graduated in Dec 07 and was lucky enough to be buying my own groceries before Christmas time.
Message edited by author 2008-08-25 19:28:56. |
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08/25/2008 07:43:47 PM · #279 |
Originally posted by egamble:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
So, you lived on the dole while in school? Now here you are crying and moaning about people on those same programs? WTF? You should be ashamed of yourself for not getting a job and working so you could afford college and not doing it on the government dime. Given this and your previous posts, I'd say you're still ashamed of it and you attack people who support those programs to make yourself feel better.
A college education and a home may not be toys, but they're hardly necessary many people successfully go their whole lives without either. You could have been a plumber, a welder, electrician or any of a number of careers that didn't require a degree, yet you chose to mooch off the people. Do you really think your student loans are anything more than a handout? The government loses money on that program. I'll wager you got your share in grants too, another handout from the government. Unless you've paid back your loans, you're still on the dole, still sucking at the government teat, while condemning those who do the same. That's the very definition of hypocrisy.
You're no different than those you condemn...Oh wait, you are, you're a hypocrite too. |
-This isn't some major secret or revelation. I have stated this fact on this and other threads already.
-You are damned right I am ashamed of myself. There is nothing more demeaning that 'paying' for groceries with your EBT card. Anyone that has to rely on these programs should be ashamed.
-You are truly ignorant if you think you can be a welder, electrician or plumber without advavced training. That would also cost money (just like college)
-Student loans are not a handout. Perhaps, the subsidized version are...but you only get that if your family makes very little money. I qualified for unsubsized versions. I also recieved a scholarship for Forensics. Other then that...nada. I have had my interest building up since the very first loan that I took out...believe me..I am paying almost $500 a month just in student loan repayments.
-Hardly a hypocrite. Go look back at what I said we should reform the system to be..its modeled of off what worked for me. Instead of being addicted to state money...I am taking care of my family.
-I did not get a house or a car...until I graduated and could afford them. :D
Same for my digital camera...and my Xbox 360. |
Sorry, but you're wrong. Student loans ARE a handout, even the unsubsidized versions, since the government gets you a better interest rate than you could get elsewhere by guaranteeing your unsecured loan. Try getting a regular unsecured loan from a bank for the amount a college degree costs, especially at 18 with no credit history. Good luck with that.
FYI training in the skilled trades is usually through an apprenticeship i.e. a JOB that pays you while you learn. In any event, completing trade school costs far less than a college degree, unless you got a degree from one of those online diploma mills where you pay $29.95 and they send you a degree in the mail.
In fact, right out of high school, you could have joined the military, gotten training in any one of those trades, gotten out, worked in that trade and/or used the GI Bill to pay for college. No debt, no loan to repay. You instead chose a government handout. About the only way you could redeem yourself now is to trot down to the local recruiter's office, enlist and sign up for the student loan repayment plan. As an added bonus, the interest on your loans and the payments are suspended while you serve. The downside is you may get blown up in some God-forsaken corner of the world.
You also say you had your child while in school and you were on the dole. How irresponsible is that? Didn't you say earlier that "people who can't afford children shouldn't have them."? Guess that doesn't apply to you. If you were true to your sayings, you should have kept your pants zipped until you were off the government teat and could afford a child.
Justify your actions all you like, you're still a hypocrite.
Message edited by author 2008-08-25 19:48:15. |
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08/25/2008 08:04:29 PM · #280 |
Let me tell you where I am coming from.
My brother....and his ,now ex-wife, both have had limited employment for the past 6-7 years. The both ,briefly, attended college and then dropped out. (after one semester)
Throughout this time, they have collectively worked under 3-4 years. YET...they have recieved Medicaid...for two children......as well as over $450 in foodstamps a month for at least the past two years. (you get more..if you have more kids)
They are both currently unemployed..and have either mooched off of my parents, myself or HER parents. Yet..they are still drawing foodstamps.
people like this...should not have ever had children in the first place...AND they should be cut off from foodstamps in order to make them take responsibility for themselves. Nothing is wrong with either of them..except extreme laziness. |
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08/25/2008 08:07:04 PM · #281 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
You also say you had your child while in school and you were on the dole. How irresponsible is that? Didn't you say earlier that "people who can't afford children shouldn't have them."? Guess that doesn't apply to you. If you were true to your sayings, you should have kept your pants zipped until you were off the government teat and could afford a child. |
You are right. We should have waited. I never said my actions are justified.
In fact..I have, repeatedly, said that I am ashamed of using these funds.
You can't make me feel any worse than I already do...no matter how hard you try. I felt bad enough when I was using the EBT card.
I deserve...these comments..and I admit it....but the facts remain the same...the system is broken and needs to be fixed. |
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08/25/2008 08:43:15 PM · #282 |
Originally posted by egamble:
Originally posted by dponlyme:
You put the words on the page for all to read. You stated that I shouldn't have my children. I think you made your feelings quite clear. |
No. I didn't say your children should be taken from you. I said people who can't afford to feed their children..shouldn't have them. ( i mean, if you are not financially stable..you should never get pregnant IN THE FIRST PLACE..I figured that was abundantly clear) |
When my children were born I WAS self supporting. I worked 60 hours a week and earned well more than you do as a teacher at that point. I have had some very serious problems that have brought me down to this point. I will get back but in the meantime the foodstamps are necessary. I am not milking anything but neither do I feel ashamed. |
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08/25/2008 08:51:25 PM · #283 |
Originally posted by egamble:
Originally posted by dponlyme:
You can choose not to believe me if you want but I do not relish milking the system. I aspire to not HAVE to use foodstamps. To this end I am making progress but I won't feel ashamed for what I thank God for. Maybe shame is a motivating force for you but it is not for me. My motivating force is my God and my children. [/b]
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God isn't paying your grocery bill...the state is.
As for my situation. It was quite differnt than yours. As I already stated...I didn't have children..except for that last six months. The rest of the time...I was just trying to get through school.
I stopped using foodstamps THE week that I stopped going to class. I graduated in Dec 07 and was lucky enough to be buying my own groceries before Christmas time. |
I thank God that there is a foodstamp program. I thank God that I have a house to live in. I thank God that my children are healthy. He doesn't pay my grocery bill or my rent or for health care for my children but I believe that ultimately it is God who provides for my needs. When I worked I thanked God for the money I earned. I will thank God every day of my life because I know where all good things come from. I will not be ashamed for what I thank God for. |
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08/25/2008 09:24:04 PM · #284 |
Originally posted by egamble:
Let me tell you where I am coming from.
My brother....and his ,now ex-wife, both have had limited employment for the past 6-7 years. The both ,briefly, attended college and then dropped out. (after one semester)
Throughout this time, they have collectively worked under 3-4 years. YET...they have recieved Medicaid...for two children......as well as over $450 in foodstamps a month for at least the past two years. (you get more..if you have more kids)
They are both currently unemployed..and have either mooched off of my parents, myself or HER parents. Yet..they are still drawing foodstamps.
people like this...should not have ever had children in the first place...AND they should be cut off from foodstamps in order to make them take responsibility for themselves. Nothing is wrong with either of them..except extreme laziness. |
So? None of that affects the hypocrisy of you getting a handout yourself.
Besides, isn't mooching off family one of the things you suggest as a solution to being on the dole?
I'd think you'd be glad that they're helping your cause by following your advice.
But really, it sounds like you and your other family members are enabling them more than the government. |
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08/25/2008 10:27:53 PM · #285 |
Originally posted by dponlyme:
He doesn't pay my grocery bill or my rent or for health care for my children but I believe that ultimately it is God who provides for my needs. |
Did you ever stop to think that some of the monies coming your way come from people that quite conceivably do not believe in your God... what are we to think of that.
Ray |
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08/26/2008 12:28:48 AM · #286 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Did you ever stop to think that some of the monies coming your way come from people that quite conceivably do not believe in your God... what are we to think of that.
Ray |
An old joke:
An old woman who was well-known for her faith and lack of reticence in talking about it would go out on the front porch and say, "Praise the Lord!" Her next door neighbor would shout back, "There ain't no Lord!" The woman was very poor, so the neighbor decided to prove his point by buying a large bag of groceries and placing it at her door. The next morning, the woman went to the porch and, seeing the groceries, said, "Praise the Lord!" The neighbor stepped out from behind a tree and said, "I brought those groceries, and there ain't no Lord." She replied, "Lord, you not only sent me food but you made the devil pay for it!" |
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08/26/2008 09:50:12 AM · #287 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by dponlyme:
He doesn't pay my grocery bill or my rent or for health care for my children but I believe that ultimately it is God who provides for my needs. |
Did you ever stop to think that some of the monies coming your way come from people that quite conceivably do not believe in your God... what are we to think of that.
Ray |
You can think what you want I suppose. I'm not asking anyone to buy into my beliefs. |
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08/26/2008 11:05:54 AM · #288 |
Originally posted by dponlyme:
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by dponlyme:
He doesn't pay my grocery bill or my rent or for health care for my children but I believe that ultimately it is God who provides for my needs. |
Did you ever stop to think that some of the monies coming your way come from people that quite conceivably do not believe in your God... what are we to think of that.
Ray |
You can think what you want I suppose. I'm not asking anyone to buy into my beliefs. |
... So what you are telling me is that you earnestly believe that all the monies YOUR god sent your way came from only those people that venerate YOUR god... surely that can't be so.
Viewed in a different perspective, it would be OK for non believers to contribute to the well being of a Christian, but their largesse would not be enough for them to gain salvation... interesting concept that.
Ray |
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08/26/2008 11:18:54 AM · #289 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by dponlyme:
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by dponlyme:
He doesn't pay my grocery bill or my rent or for health care for my children but I believe that ultimately it is God who provides for my needs. |
Did you ever stop to think that some of the monies coming your way come from people that quite conceivably do not believe in your God... what are we to think of that.
Ray |
You can think what you want I suppose. I'm not asking anyone to buy into my beliefs. |
... So what you are telling me is that you earnestly believe that all the monies YOUR god sent your way came from only those people that venerate YOUR god... surely that can't be so.
Viewed in a different perspective, it would be OK for non believers to contribute to the well being of a Christian, but their largesse would not be enough for them to gain salvation... interesting concept that.
Ray |
Ray I think you are for some reason looking for an argument and I have none for you. I just believe what I believe. As far as where the money literally comes from I have no illusions that all who have contributed by paying taxes believe as I do. If that was somehow implied then it was in error. To answer the last question the answer would be no. My beliefs are that you cannot earn salvation by your actions. I stress that these are my beliefs and I don't presuppose that anyone else should hold them. Nor do I defend them. They are simply my beliefs and you don't have to agree and that is fine. |
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08/26/2008 11:31:18 PM · #290 |
Originally posted by dponlyme:
I thank God that there is a foodstamp program. I thank God that I have a house to live in. I thank God that my children are healthy. He doesn't pay my grocery bill or my rent or for health care for my children but I believe that ultimately it is God who provides for my needs. When I worked I thanked God for the money I earned. I will thank God every day of my life because I know where all good things come from. I will not be ashamed for what I thank God for. |
I didn't ask you go be ashamed.
By the way...if you have a Kroger near you...they will pay for your health insurance...if you work part-time for six months. I just spoke to one of their managers and will be applying for a part-time job at Kroger.
Believe it or not...this is actually better insurance than I would have to pay an entire paycheck for...out of my teaching money. |
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08/26/2008 11:38:32 PM · #291 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
So? None of that affects the hypocrisy of you getting a handout yourself.
Besides, isn't mooching off family one of the things you suggest as a solution to being on the dole?
I'd think you'd be glad that they're helping your cause by following your advice.
But really, it sounds like you and your other family members are enabling them more than the government. |
1.) It isn't hypocrisy. Hypocrisy would ME being on foodstamps, not having OR looking for a job...and then denouncing others for doing the exact same. Perhaps you should look up the definition of hypocrisy? I haven't said EVERY use of welfare was horrible, even though I personally felt degraded...I said the system should be changed...to where it can help people make a life for themselves and not have to worry about government help again.
2.) I never suggested mooching off your family OR private corporations. I have said that if you are in truly DIRE need....you should rely on your family and on your church. My brother and his girlfriend (ex wife) are prime examples of the people who are milking the system and should be kicked off. They are both ,relatively, health with no physical or mental defects...they are simply lazy.
3.) My advice is to be self sufficient. They are relying on BOTH family and the government to live...when they have the facilities to take care of themselves. I never said this was something anyone should strive for. Thanks for putting words in my mouth..you are really great at that!
4.) I am not enabling anyone. I allowed my brother to live with my family for six months after the divorce. But he only kept a small Lowe's job for about a month out of that time...I then told him he would have to leave. I offered him a chance to have his bills paid....his sons given a place to live.....and a room in my home...and he squandered it away. So he was asked to leave. I ask no more of the country..than I ask of myself. If we find people that are takign advantage of the government's goodwill...they need to be cut off. Besides that, the system needs to be changed to where we ask for accountability and responsibility instead of giving out blind hand-outs.
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08/26/2008 11:39:27 PM · #292 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by dponlyme:
He doesn't pay my grocery bill or my rent or for health care for my children but I believe that ultimately it is God who provides for my needs. |
Did you ever stop to think that some of the monies coming your way come from people that quite conceivably do not believe in your God... what are we to think of that.
Ray |
Exactly. Not saying that I don't....but if he truly believes that God is providing for his family...why don't they live off of mana and milk? |
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08/26/2008 11:41:08 PM · #293 |
:)
I intentionaly flame baited...just to be a jerk.
Decided against it.
Message edited by author 2008-08-26 23:42:16. |
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08/27/2008 01:25:30 AM · #294 |
Originally posted by milo655321:
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Did you ever stop to think that some of the monies coming your way come from people that quite conceivably do not believe in your God... what are we to think of that.
Ray |
An old joke: |
The old man was poor but devout. He observed all the Holy days, and was always kind to those he recognized as being even worse off than he was. But he was getting on in years, and couldn't help feeling that he, too, deserved a chance at some fun out of life in the short time he had remaining.
One day, he decided to add a codicil to his usual prayer, "Please, God," he murmured, "let me win the lottery." He continued to add this private request to his usual observances with ever-increasing sincerity, and eventually just a hint of desperation.
Finally, after forty days of such supplication, as he was walking home alone, he heard a rumbling as of thunder, followed by a deep voice bellowing from the void, "I hear you, I hear you, but you gotta help me out -- at least BUY A TICKET!" |
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08/27/2008 09:29:24 AM · #295 |
Originally posted by egamble:
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by dponlyme:
He doesn't pay my grocery bill or my rent or for health care for my children but I believe that ultimately it is God who provides for my needs. |
Did you ever stop to think that some of the monies coming your way come from people that quite conceivably do not believe in your God... what are we to think of that.
Ray |
Exactly. Not saying that I don't....but if he truly believes that God is providing for his family...why don't they live off of mana and milk? |
Because God has provided me with a foodstamp program. If it makes you feel more comfortable then substitute 'Congress' for 'God'. |
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08/27/2008 09:29:54 AM · #296 |
Originally posted by egamble:
:)
I intentionaly flame baited...just to be a jerk.
Decided against it. |
Thank you. listen I'd like to apologize for the way I have acted about this. I have taken things way too personally. You don't know me or the reasons why I am where I am at. You have a right to your opinion which I think once we take all the personal attacks out of this I basically agree with. It would definitely be better if people were helped in being able to provide for themselves.
Message edited by author 2008-08-27 09:37:52. |
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08/27/2008 05:47:33 PM · #297 |
Originally posted by dponlyme:
Originally posted by egamble:
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by dponlyme:
He doesn't pay my grocery bill or my rent or for health care for my children but I believe that ultimately it is God who provides for my needs. |
Did you ever stop to think that some of the monies coming your way come from people that quite conceivably do not believe in your God... what are we to think of that.
Ray |
Exactly. Not saying that I don't....but if he truly believes that God is providing for his family...why don't they live off of mana and milk? |
Because God has provided me with a foodstamp program. If it makes you feel more comfortable then substitute 'Congress' for 'God'. |
Oh I cannot resist.... Since the foodstamps are generated from taxpayers money and you aquant God with providing you with Foodstamps then we(taxpayer) are god to you right? Please I just picking at you in fun now....don't take it serious |
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08/27/2008 07:44:26 PM · #298 |
Originally posted by coronamv:
Originally posted by dponlyme:
Originally posted by egamble:
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by dponlyme:
He doesn't pay my grocery bill or my rent or for health care for my children but I believe that ultimately it is God who provides for my needs. |
Did you ever stop to think that some of the monies coming your way come from people that quite conceivably do not believe in your God... what are we to think of that.
Ray |
Exactly. Not saying that I don't....but if he truly believes that God is providing for his family...why don't they live off of mana and milk? |
Because God has provided me with a foodstamp program. If it makes you feel more comfortable then substitute 'Congress' for 'God'. |
Oh I cannot resist.... Since the foodstamps are generated from taxpayers money and you aquant God with providing you with Foodstamps then we(taxpayer) are god to you right? Please I just picking at you in fun now....don't take it serious |
That's cool.... like I say I think I have been taking this too personally. |
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08/27/2008 08:16:05 PM · #299 |
Understandable. I hope you and everyone who rely on welfare find a means to become self supportive. It's good for you and me. I think we can agree on that..
Originally posted by dponlyme:
Originally posted by coronamv:
Originally posted by dponlyme:
Originally posted by egamble:
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by dponlyme:
He doesn't pay my grocery bill or my rent or for health care for my children but I believe that ultimately it is God who provides for my needs. |
Did you ever stop to think that some of the monies coming your way come from people that quite conceivably do not believe in your God... what are we to think of that.
Ray |
Exactly. Not saying that I don't....but if he truly believes that God is providing for his family...why don't they live off of mana and milk? |
Because God has provided me with a foodstamp program. If it makes you feel more comfortable then substitute 'Congress' for 'God'. |
Oh I cannot resist.... Since the foodstamps are generated from taxpayers money and you aquant God with providing you with Foodstamps then we(taxpayer) are god to you right? Please I just picking at you in fun now....don't take it serious |
That's cool.... like I say I think I have been taking this too personally. |
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08/27/2008 09:35:28 PM · #300 |
Originally posted by dponlyme:
Thank you. listen I'd like to apologize for the way I have acted about this. I have taken things way too personally. You don't know me or the reasons why I am where I am at. You have a right to your opinion which I think once we take all the personal attacks out of this I basically agree with. It would definitely be better if people were helped in being able to provide for themselves. |
I appreciate that.
I also apologize for the personal attacks. I am just a natural smart-ass...so I am usually just trying to be funny...not to be an out-and-out ass...even though I usually appear the latter. |
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