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08/01/2008 12:22:39 PM · #1 |
"Travelers' laptops may be detained at {US} border"...and the kicker phrase: "...for an unspecified period of time without any suspicion of wrongdoing, as part of border search policies the Department of Homeland Security recently disclosed."
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08/01/2008 12:31:42 PM · #2 |
Simple...just encrypt sensitive information. The best schemes would take decades to crack.
The way it's presented, the policy is stupid, like so many things done in the name of "National Security" or "Terrorist Threat". |
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08/01/2008 12:33:57 PM · #3 |
Yeah, there has been going on for a bit. It's a catch for some of us (and a PITA for everyone with zip justification IMO).... My work laptop is encrypted and my employment agreement stats that I cannot allow non-employees access to the data (in fact only certain employees can see some of the data). If they did it to me, then I guess I would give them the encrypted machine and make them use the gov access keys (I believe they have them from most of the software makers) rather then me opening it. As my employer is a US company they would probably not fire me for opening it BUT for people that work for non US companies, I doubt I would try that (depends on the level of sensitivity of the data I guess).
Message edited by author 2008-08-01 12:36:33.
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08/01/2008 12:54:48 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by robs:
...I would give them the encrypted machine and make them use the gov access keys (I believe they have them from most of the software makers) rather then me opening it... |
I know there was a big debate over this a while back, but I didn't know the encryption companies had caved in. I do know there's a case where a guy accused of dealing in child porn was/is refusing, under the fifth amendment, to give up the password to an encrypted hard drive, in effect saying that to do so would be testifying against himself.
Here's a link to, then Senator, John Ashcroft's objection to just such a restriction from back in 1997. I wonder if he changed his tune post-9/11?
Message edited by author 2008-08-01 13:01:55. |
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08/01/2008 01:06:06 PM · #5 |
Well they were talking on the news about how they catch a lot of child porn/child predators this way.
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08/01/2008 01:06:06 PM · #6 |
dup post.
Message edited by author 2008-08-01 13:06:17.
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08/01/2008 01:14:08 PM · #7 |
Products like Truecrypt which happens to be free are now able to not only encrypt an entire desktop or laptop but also to pose a fake Windows install to hide the fact there is any encryption at all. In the case of Truecrypt it also allows hiding one encrypted thing inside another, so that you can give a password for the the first and show them some credit card information, maybe some pictures of goats or something while the actual information you wish to hide remains hidden.
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08/01/2008 01:20:30 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by togtog:
Products like Truecrypt which happens to be free are now able to not only encrypt an entire desktop or laptop but also to pose a fake Windows install to hide the fact there is any encryption at all. In the case of Truecrypt it also allows hiding one encrypted thing inside another, so that you can give a password for the the first and show them some credit card information, maybe some pictures of goats or something while the actual information you wish to hide remains hidden. |
That sounds like a sweet program...gonna have to take a look at that when I get home...not that I have anything to hide but still seems cool. |
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08/01/2008 01:20:44 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by gwe21:
Well they were talking on the news about how they catch a lot of child porn/child predators this way. |
Oh, well that's okay then. In the 1950's it would have been communists. In the late 17th century it would have been witches. There's always some rationale that taps into the current era's fear. |
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08/01/2008 01:30:02 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by gwe21:
Well they were talking on the news about how they catch a lot of child porn/child predators this way. |
I do not think that invading your privacy is justified by catching some pervert too stupid to wipe his child porn. I'm against all child porn but i'm also against the government invading my life and privacy.
THANK YOU OSAMA, YOU DID CHANGE MY WORLD AFTER ALL YOU SOB! The terrorists have won and now bask in their victories every time they read a story like this. They wanted to change our world and they did. We no longer have the lives we used to have and what are we doing about it? Denying basic liberties to law abiding citizens... that'll stop them T's.
At least there's one pedophile in jail though, so it must be worth the loss of our basic rights...
/rant off ( I never put it on though ) lol
Message edited by author 2008-08-01 13:31:22.
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08/01/2008 01:32:13 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by togtog:
Products like Truecrypt which happens to be free are now able to not only encrypt an entire desktop or laptop but also to pose a fake Windows install to hide the fact there is any encryption at all. In the case of Truecrypt it also allows hiding one encrypted thing inside another, so that you can give a password for the the first and show them some credit card information, maybe some pictures of goats or something while the actual information you wish to hide remains hidden. |
Reminds me of a story:
There was a time when the USSR was accepting only a few visitors, and the chosen few felt they were probably being bugged in their hotel rooms. I asked one of these visitors, when he returned, if he felt his privacy had been invaded. "Oh, no," said he, "we didn't use English, we spoke only Greek in our hotel room."
Somehow, I think our Biggest Brother already knows of the this program and others out there. And how to 'unencrypt' them. |
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08/01/2008 01:35:14 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by robs:
...I would give them the encrypted machine and make them use the gov access keys (I believe they have them from most of the software makers) rather then me opening it... |
I know there was a big debate over this a while back, but I didn't know the encryption companies had caved in. I do know there's a case where a guy accused of dealing in child porn was/is refusing, under the fifth amendment, to give up the password to an encrypted hard drive, in effect saying that to do so would be testifying against himself.
Here's a link to, then Senator, John Ashcroft's objection to just such a restriction from back in 1997. I wonder if he changed his tune post-9/11? |
Don't know for sure and I suspect a lot of companies refuse to comment for obvious reasons. Here is some discussion about Vista but I cannot find anything specific about the various encrypt software makers... lots of discussion. In the late 90's they had that silly no export on the stronger browser encryption alogr but that seems to be dead now.
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08/01/2008 01:42:32 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by sfalice:
Somehow, I think our Biggest Brother already knows of the this program and others out there. And how to 'unencrypt' them. |
... and one could also take into consideration that there exist "Back Doors" to all of those wonderful programs, particularly those originating in the USA.
Ray |
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08/01/2008 01:44:41 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by togtog:
Products like Truecrypt which happens to be free are now able to not only encrypt an entire desktop or laptop but also to pose a fake Windows install to hide the fact there is any encryption at all. In the case of Truecrypt it also allows hiding one encrypted thing inside another, so that you can give a password for the the first and show them some credit card information, maybe some pictures of goats or something while the actual information you wish to hide remains hidden. |
Just out of curiousity, does the program also hide the file/folder size. Surely it would not take a wizard to figure out that the total size of what was masquerading as the original file did not match up to the size of what was being shown.
Ray |
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08/01/2008 02:11:22 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by gwe21:
Well they were talking on the news about how they catch a lot of child porn/child predators this way. |
Really?
Then why were they unable to unencrypt the guys HD in the case that I mentioned? The authorities had seized the computer and HD as part of their investigation, but were unable to access the contents because of the encryption in place and the suspect's refusal to provide the acces code.
If it were as simple as simply getting the government "key" why would they not do so?
OK, evidently, if the perv is stupid and uses poor encryption it can be cracked. Story
However, I found more such instances where the encryption is not so easily broken. Here and Here
Message edited by author 2008-08-01 14:19:29. |
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08/01/2008 02:50:44 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by gwe21:
Well they were talking on the news about how they catch a lot of child porn/child predators this way. |
Really?
Then why were they unable to unencrypt the guys HD in the case that I mentioned? The authorities had seized the computer and HD as part of their investigation, but were unable to access the contents because of the encryption in place and the suspect's refusal to provide the acces code.
If it were as simple as simply getting the government "key" why would they not do so?
OK, evidently, if the perv is stupid and uses poor encryption it can be cracked. Story
However, I found more such instances where the encryption is not so easily broken. Here and Here |
I dont know much about encryption..etc.. Just passing on what I heard this morning about it. Surely they arent trying to justify the law by saying they catch child predators... (right??)
It does suck that we are constantly being invaded. And its hard to draw that line I guess between what is invading and what is truly for the benefit of the country. :$ |
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08/01/2008 03:14:54 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
[quote=gwe21]
If it were as simple as simply getting the government "key" why would they not do so?
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Because not all "gov" is created equal. For example it took a long time for it to come out that Adobe put stuff in PS to stop editing of images like US currency (I believe some scanning s/ware also included code to stop the scan been correct). Just a random link to give some ref for that statement but hit google for a lot more.
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08/01/2008 03:51:18 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by robs:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
[quote=gwe21]
If it were as simple as simply getting the government "key" why would they not do so?
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Because not all "gov" is created equal. For example it took a long time for it to come out that Adobe put stuff in PS to stop editing of images like US currency (I believe some scanning s/ware also included code to stop the scan been correct). Just a random link to give some ref for that statement but hit google for a lot more. |
It didn't take very long for the currency detection to be discovered at all. The first post I found about it was dated 09 Jan 2004, barely 3 months after the release of CS, which is the first version of Photoshop to have the currency detection "feature". Discussions on Adobe forums were already ongoing.
If the government had the backdoor built in to the encryption software, why, would the FBI and the CIA work for a month before giving up without success as detailed in one of the articles I linked to? Why not simply open the backdoor and help take down a major child porn ring instead of letting them go free?
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