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07/21/2008 11:46:57 AM · #26 |
Originally posted by Telehubbie:
Chris, if your kids won't be getting any clothes this year due to loss of business from amatuers, maybe you should re-evaluate a few things. Seriously, your arrogance is sanctimonious. Price is not the only reason someone would choose an amateur over a 'pro'. |
How many seniors (or their moms) don't know the difference between good or bad images so they choose soccer mom neighbor instead of a pro studio and end up disappointed - if not now, then at some point in the future when they see their friend's pictures?
10 years ago 90% of seniors went to a pro. Today it's less than half of that. Does that hurt my income? You bet it does. Supply and demand have a lot to do with prices and the fewer customers there are the more one spends on advertising to get them.
The economy is bad enough without me sharpening the knife of those that're trying to put in my back (or in the back of professional photography in general).
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07/21/2008 11:50:50 AM · #27 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
Originally posted by Telehubbie:
Chris, if your kids won't be getting any clothes this year due to loss of business from amatuers, maybe you should re-evaluate a few things. Seriously, your arrogance is sanctimonious. Price is not the only reason someone would choose an amateur over a 'pro'. |
How many seniors (or their moms) don't know the difference between good or bad images so they choose soccer mom neighbor instead of a pro studio and end up disappointed - if not now, then at some point in the future when they see their friend's pictures?
10 years ago 90% of seniors went to a pro. Today it's less than half of that. Does that hurt my income? You bet it does. Supply and demand have a lot to do with prices and the fewer customers there are the more one spends on advertising to get them.
The economy is bad enough without me sharpening the knife of those that're trying to put in my back (or in the back of professional photography in general). |
Do you do any jobs around your house when there are professional handymen who need work? Do you cook your own meals when there are chefs seeking business ? Etc., etc., etc...
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07/21/2008 11:52:39 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
10 years ago 90% of seniors went to a pro. Today it's less than half of that. Does that hurt my income? You bet it does. Supply and demand have a lot to do with prices and the fewer customers there are the more one spends on advertising to get them. |
Um... you were singing a different tune a few years back when you were a beginner asking for free advice in these same forums. I would hope your market is NOT people who don't know the difference between good or bad images. Such people are simply not going to spend hundreds or thousands on a pro- they'll just take pictures themselves. |
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07/21/2008 11:53:49 AM · #29 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
Originally posted by Telehubbie:
Chris, if your kids won't be getting any clothes this year due to loss of business from amatuers, maybe you should re-evaluate a few things. Seriously, your arrogance is sanctimonious. Price is not the only reason someone would choose an amateur over a 'pro'. |
How many seniors (or their moms) don't know the difference between good or bad images so they choose soccer mom neighbor instead of a pro studio and end up disappointed - if not now, then at some point in the future when they see their friend's pictures?
10 years ago 90% of seniors went to a pro. Today it's less than half of that. Does that hurt my income? You bet it does. Supply and demand have a lot to do with prices and the fewer customers there are the more one spends on advertising to get them.
The economy is bad enough without me sharpening the knife of those that're trying to put in my back (or in the back of professional photography in general). |
What a load of poppy cock. Who says 90% of seniors EVER went to pros? My research shows that other than yearbook picture most seniors didn't have ANY senior pics done even a few years ago. Yes senior pictures are popular, but I think you will find its still only about 40% of all seniors who choose to have (can afford to have) this done. Having a 17 year old take pictures of her friends is not taking food from my plate. If those friends, or their parents are unhappy with the shots, then they may just come to me!!
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07/21/2008 11:55:52 AM · #30 |
Originally posted by idnic:
If those friends, or their parents are unhappy with the shots, then they may just come to me!! |
You really don't WANT the people who don't. ;-) |
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07/21/2008 11:56:10 AM · #31 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
10 years ago 90% of seniors went to a pro. Today it's less than half of that. Does that hurt my income? You bet it does. Supply and demand have a lot to do with prices and the fewer customers there are the more one spends on advertising to get them. |
Um... you were singing a different tune a few years back when you were a beginner asking for free advice in these same forums. I would hope your market is NOT people who don't know the difference between good or bad images. Such people are simply not going to spend hundreds or thousands on a pro- they'll just take pictures themselves. |
B U R N ! ! ! Nice one scalvert! |
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07/21/2008 12:04:09 PM · #32 |
90% is pulled from thin air. As to how many get them done at a pro, around here it's a pretty high percentage - 60-70% range.
Seeing the decline in those paying for senior pics is fact. Why the decline is due to digital photography and soccer moms. "Good Enough" is easy to find. On the positve side this has raised the benchmark for pros - the old standard headshot isn't going to be good enough anymore if you want to make money at senior photography. You've got to give them something they can't get anyplace else - be that poses, props, locations/backgrounds, processing or products.
I could take the attitude that those that are willing to accept lesser art deserve what they get. A rather pessimistic percpective. I think everyone should have art in their lives and learn to appreciate it. Beauty shouldn't be for only those that can afford it.
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07/21/2008 12:06:40 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
Thanks for taking the food from my mouth. My business is photography and you're taking my customers and giving it away free. My kids thank you now that they won't be getting any new clothes for school cause daddy's business was taken away by amateurs.
Then you have the balls to ask me to help you do it!
Sorry, not this time folks. |
She is in Kansas.....you are in PA.
Ligthen up a bit. These kids probably would never pay the prices a 'pro' photographer would charge anyways. I never had any pics from my school days that weren't taken by the SCHOOL PHOTOGRAPHER...why? We couldn't afford it.
I think it is sweet that she is helping her friends.
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07/21/2008 12:10:41 PM · #34 |
Some people forget what it was like to start out. People don't just up and say they are going to be professionals and they wake up the next morning with a closet full of gear, and the skills of a dalai lama. If you are hurting for money and complaining about the business then maybe photography isnt for you, get another job 9-5 hour pay, perhaps even a raise.
I am sure that one person taking pictures of their friends isn't going to send you out on the street, and godforbid your children wear the same clothes they did one school year ago- heavens knows thats a dilemma and cause for a state wide emergency. Please send donations to.....
You are not the only one suffering from this economy. Did you ever think of the person who wants the friend to take the pictures? They too are going through this economy -not to mention they are high school students- hence why they didn't go pro. Get off your high chair and stop complaining about amatures taking away your business. Try lowering your prices if you are angry about people seeking alternatives - and if you don't want to, then shut up and bite the bullet. Yes you get what you pay for - but some people can't pay for much and its not their fault.
Ok now that I am done with that (for some reason this really got to me)- actually after re-reading this I think its because I was in the same situation a few years ago.
I didn't have any senior portraits of me, I couldn't afford it, and to my parents it was a luxury not a necessity. I wish I'd known a friend with a camera back then- even if they were amatures I'm sure they could do better than I could - instead I ended up with snapshots in a disposable camera.
This would also fall along the same lines as another recent example:
I got married about six months ago. No we could not afford to dish out 2500$ for a photographer alone-but that didn't mean we were gonna call the wedding off. Instead I hired my brother. I made sure beforehand that it was ok with him. Being my wedding day and all I don't know how... emotional it was for him so I made sure it wouldn't bug him or make him feel left out from the party or anything. Anyways for a few hundred bucks I had my wedding pictures (and it was his first wedding)and I was completely satisfied. and yes he is an amature- but because of this he has gone off to shoot a few more weddings afterwards.
This is the part where they tell me "but you get what you pay for!" and "these are the memories you treasure for a lifetime!". But it sure was better than having a million relatives take the pictures for you because the select few on their high chairs look down upon us little people! (im not saying everyone)
Besides I would rather pay someone who deserves it, than someone who is going to be an arse about it
Message edited by author 2008-07-21 12:15:40. |
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07/21/2008 12:17:01 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
I could take the attitude that those that are willing to accept lesser art deserve what they get. A rather pessimistic percpective. I think everyone should have art in their lives and learn to appreciate it. Beauty shouldn't be for only those that can afford it. |
Seriously, what do you mean by this statement? I'm confused. |
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07/21/2008 12:19:20 PM · #36 |
Oh and by the way
there have been famous artists whos work was considered "lesser" by snobby people like you. and 50 years after their death, their work is worth more than what it would cost to save your life. |
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07/21/2008 12:23:25 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by sempermarine:
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
I could take the attitude that those that are willing to accept lesser art deserve what they get. A rather pessimistic percpective. I think everyone should have art in their lives and learn to appreciate it. Beauty shouldn't be for only those that can afford it. |
Seriously, what do you mean by this statement? I'm confused. |
He's blowing smoke if you ask me.
Saying you are a professional, doesn't mean you are one. What I mean is, just because it says you are a professional on a business card, if you don't act it, then how much of a professional are you. If you treat all your clients like dollar signs, then how much art, thought or beauty to you put into your work. Kudos to the kids are making the best our of their situation. Maybe possibly there is another Joey Lawrence in the making. |
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07/21/2008 12:24:16 PM · #38 |
| Guys, come on, this post is about where to get decent photos printed... |
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07/21/2008 12:26:06 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by TCGuru:
Guys, come on, this post is about where to get decent photos printed... |
That's very true....and I give a thumbs up to MPIX!!! They have always given me great results and very fast service. Plus there is so much to choose from. |
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07/21/2008 12:26:51 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by TCGuru:
Guys, come on, this post is about where to get decent photos printed... |
Point taken. I use Mpix and have been very satisfied with their service. |
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07/21/2008 12:28:12 PM · #41 |
I use snapfish to print my personal pictures, I like it, its affordable and im satisfied with the results
if you say they don't want anything fancy I mean.
If I don't want fancy, I use snapfish.com you get like 20 free prints when you sign up - (oh wait does this mean that they are taking business away from state of the art printing laboratories- oh nos!) |
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07/21/2008 12:39:46 PM · #42 |
| My 2¢...if you have a Costco handy, they do a decent job and the price per print is great! |
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07/21/2008 12:46:45 PM · #43 |
| I use Costco for daily prints, but if I want better quality I go to Mpix. |
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07/21/2008 12:48:42 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
Beauty shouldn't be for only those that can afford it. |
And yet you slam those who try to provide it for those who can't afford it.
It seems rather ironic to me that you're willing to take the food out of the mouths of those you claim are backstabbers taking your food. Everyone should pay a professional for any photos; who needs to eat, anyway?
Maybe you'd prefer photography should be operated like graduated driver's licences? Nobody's allowed to use a camera until they're sixteen, then only while accompanied by a professional. After they've passed their test they can still can't shoot people until they've finished their next level of licensing. After that they can shoot anything they like.
My senior photos consist of my yearbook entry and a group shot of 240 grads. I only wish I had had a friend willing and able to shoot for us, because then I might have SOMEthing to look back on, even if not technically perfect.
Believe it or not, sometimes it really isn't an uneducated choice between lesser-quality free stuff and better-quality pricey stuff. Sometimes the ONLY choices are free or none, no matter how much one may wish to have something nice.
I'd also rather have someone who knows me through and through capture the real me than have a studio shot that's technically perfect, looks like me on the outside, but doesn't capture my essence because the one behind the camera doesn't know me. I don't even know where my studio shots are! 20 years down the road, which shots are more likely to be looked at with fond memories; the formal studio poses or the ones shot by friends and family?
Yes, professional photographs have their place. But theirs isn't the only place!
Prof_Fate, did you spring from the womb a top photographer? Or did you backstab and steal food out of the mouths of children during your journey to becoming perfect?
I can tell you one thing; if I were a potential client and chanced to read your intolerant arrogance here I would become a client who took her business elsewhere.
To the OP; I'm sorry that I have no practical advice to offer but you have my full support. Go out and have fun shooting your friends, and give them some memories that NO professional could ever offer, technically perfect or not :) |
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07/21/2008 01:04:43 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by KaylaSkye:
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So I have got a few senior friends this year that are needing some senior pictures done. They aren\'t wanting anything really fancy, just something to hand out to there friends and whatnot. I don\'t think that their parents would want any to frame.
I know I\'m not the most skilled photographer yet, but I think I can come up with something that will make them happy. Maybe do something a normal hired photographer wouldn\'t? Since I am friends with them and whatnot. I wouldn\'t charge them anything except for some gas money..we would probably drive wherever we decided to take the pictures together, and for the prints themselves.
But as far as printing.. I know nothing. Where do I start?
Thanks for taking the food from my mouth. My business is photography and you\'re taking my customers and giving it away free. My kids thank you now that they won\'t be getting any new clothes for school cause daddy\'s business was taken away by amateurs.
Then you have the balls to ask me to help you do it!
Sorry, not this time folks.
Wow! To the poor young girl who originally wrote in for a little help. My dear girl.. do not let the rude comments of others effect your very sweet and kind efforts! There is no way that you helping out a few friends is going to effect that persons business. I do the same thing for my friends. I took my daughters senior portraits last year as well. MPix is for sure the way to go. Phenomenal processing. Wallets look amazing! Very fast shipping.
I would never ever solicit business away from a local professional. I totally respect there training, talent and all they put into there businesses. But if a friend in need asks for a favor because they are a little short on money or they just want to give me the practice I am NOT going to turn them down. To the best of my knowledge the 3 seniors I did pictures for last year did not shut down the local professionals.
Prof_Fate....SHAME ON YOU for making this poor girl sound like a thief and for also throwing your childrens welfare in her face. That isn\'t very PROFESSIONAL! By the way... she is 16 years old! |
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07/21/2008 04:26:19 PM · #46 |
Prof_Fate, We're young, trying to understand and better ourselves at photography, im sure her intention (nor mine) is to steal your profits, starve your children, or belittle proffesionals (like yourself?)
Weren't you a beginner once as well, or did you just pick up a camera one day and take fantastic photographs one after another, without making mistakes and trying to learn? I hope not, because if you did, i dont think photography is right for you, its about constantly learning and growing in your abilities.
But, back on topic originally, mpix is a great awesome place to get prints done, i fullheartedly admit to that. As well, I found that Costco is pretty good at prints as well, thats where i get 90% of my prints done.
And hope you do well at the shoot, have fun, and dont take it too seriously. Enjoy some laughs, and a relaxed friend will be much more easier to capture then a stiff, fake smile one.
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07/21/2008 05:14:38 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by BeeCee:
Prof_Fate, did you spring from the womb a top photographer? |
evidently not.......
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07/21/2008 05:35:49 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by kleski:
Originally posted by BeeCee:
Prof_Fate, did you spring from the womb a top photographer? |
evidently not.......
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B U R N Again!!! Chris, you picked the wrong site to take your failing business out on teenage girls. OUCH!! |
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07/21/2008 06:41:03 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
How many seniors (or their moms) don't know the difference between good or bad images so they choose soccer mom neighbor instead of a pro studio and end up disappointed - if not now, then at some point in the future when they see their friend's pictures? |
You're assuming that these amateur girls couldn't possibly take a good photo. You're also assuming that the girls or their moms are not entitled to their own opinion of what constitutes a good image. You know what they say about assuming don't you?
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
10 years ago 90% of seniors went to a pro. Today it's less than half of that. Does that hurt my income? You bet it does. |
Since you didn't start calling yourself a "pro" until a few months ago, the decline from 10 years ago couldn't possibly be causing you to loose any income. In other words, you entered the market as it currently exists, so there's no way that you could have lost anything. If you can't hack it with the market as it is, then maybe you need to find something else to do for a living.
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
Loose praise may feed my ego but constructive criticism advances my skills. |
Obviously, you don't need anyone feeding your ego. I hope the rather large dose of constructive criticism you've been receiving here has the desired effect.
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07/21/2008 07:02:35 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Um... you were singing a different tune a few years back when you were a beginner asking for free advice in these same forums. I would hope your market is NOT people who don't know the difference between good or bad images. Such people are simply not going to spend hundreds or thousands on a pro- they'll just take pictures themselves. |
I was wondering who was gonna enlighten Chris to his past. How easy it is for people to forget when they think their sh*t don't stink anymore.
Message edited by author 2008-07-21 19:20:25.
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