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07/16/2008 08:41:24 AM · #26 |
Originally posted by JesiLynR:
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I really need about $500 to pay for college books and dorm stuff..... |
Be aware that there are used books to be bought from other students at MUCH lower prices than getting new ones at the college bookstore, especially for the more basic courses in the first couple of years at college.
In my later years, I also made some sweet beer money by selling course laboratory notes I'd written, but you'd better get A's if you want to do that. A good incentive to do well. ;-)
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07/16/2008 09:26:22 AM · #27 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by JesiLynR:
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I really need about $500 to pay for college books and dorm stuff..... |
Be aware that there are used books to be bought from other students at MUCH lower prices than getting new ones at the college bookstore, especially for the more basic courses in the first couple of years at college.
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Yup, save a lot, and (depending on who owned it prior) will have the good stuff highlighted already. |
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07/16/2008 12:06:02 PM · #28 |
you can also buy used books online - amazon, ebay, etc. Or sometimes a teacher will let you slide by with an older copy - I took class a couple year's back at the local community college. The instructer said you needed Ver 5 of the book, for $75. I got it and choked at the price BTW. Third day in the teach said, OK, you can use Ver 4 if you have it. Yeah, it was available for $5. Yes, FIVE dollars. Talk about being pissed off!
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07/16/2008 12:20:35 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
you can also buy used books online - amazon, ebay, etc. Or sometimes a teacher will let you slide by with an older copy - I took class a couple year's back at the local community college. The instructer said you needed Ver 5 of the book, for $75. I got it and choked at the price BTW. Third day in the teach said, OK, you can use Ver 4 if you have it. Yeah, it was available for $5. Yes, FIVE dollars. Talk about being pissed off! |
Releasing new versions of a textbook is a scam to make money for the textbook publisher. It's a complete ripoff.
In engineering school, I bought one version of a text that was required for both semesters of a 2 semester sequence of classes. Thermodynamics I and II, I think. Anyway, between the time I took the first class and the second, the publisher released a new version, which was "required". So I bought the new version. The sole difference? They switched unit systems on all of the problems. All of the homework problems that were in metric units were now converted to US units and vice versa.
Oh yeah, $75 is cheap for a textbook, at least comapred to what I'm used to paying. I think those Thermo books were each $80+ and that was over 10 years ago. |
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07/16/2008 06:52:25 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
If you're charging money you have to pay taxes - sales tax, income tax. And so not to pay too much you have to keep records of what you spend - on gear, education, travel, materials, prints, etc, etc. You never know who your next client is - could be an IRS employee - they get married and have portraits made too. Many business have been padlocked and failed for not paying their taxes. And you may need a business license. Just like a driver's license you don't need it till you need it, then you better have it!
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Oh do yourself a favour and lighten up. She will do what most of us did when we started out. Work for `cash in hand`. I understand if you didn`t do this, we all know your shit don`t stink.
My advice to her is if she wants to earn some pin-money, or build a lens-fund or whatever, go out there and work for cash, just the odd bits and pieces of work and you will soon start to improve your craft and bring in a higher paying customer. When I started out I hung around the local rehersal studios and offered a couple of bands free photoshoots, once word got around I actually got quite busy and made a little bit of pin-money.
EDIT - Bands actually make very good models, once they get over their inital nervousness they will be willing to try pretty much anything, bands are as much about image as they are music, also, they will feel a bit `rockstar` for a few hours - its a win win situation.
Message edited by author 2008-07-16 18:55:42. |
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07/16/2008 07:32:38 PM · #31 |
Thread jack alert! Is there a dictionary to help interpret all of Mark's  Simms slang words. 'Pin-money'?? :) That's a new one for me but I love 'em. Back to your regular scheduled programming...
***
To the OP. Go for it--be up front with people about your experience and then deliver a nice product. |
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07/16/2008 09:59:23 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by Simms:
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
If you're charging money you have to pay taxes - sales tax, income tax. And so not to pay too much you have to keep records of what you spend - on gear, education, travel, materials, prints, etc, etc. You never know who your next client is - could be an IRS employee - they get married and have portraits made too. Many business have been padlocked and failed for not paying their taxes. And you may need a business license. Just like a driver's license you don't need it till you need it, then you better have it!
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Oh do yourself a favour and lighten up. She will do what most of us did when we started out. Work for `cash in hand`. I understand if you didn`t do this, we all know your shit don`t stink.
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I guess you never worked for someone that got busted for tax evasion, huh? I have. A couple of times. I also know an @sshole of a wedding photog around here that will turn you or any new photog he sees in to the state and your local town - he doesn't like competetion of any kind. It's a lot less hassle to follow the rules up front than to be fined, taken to court, have things seized, etc if you get caught later. Ever been audited? You wouldn't like it very much - they first seize your bank accounts - all of them - then start asking questions. Good luck paying rent or buying food in the mean time. It has not happened to me, but I know people that have had it happen to them. It's not pleasant.
Your advice is for her to risk her money, her future, her livlihood to make a few bucks. That is a very shortsighted view of things.
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07/17/2008 11:59:17 PM · #33 |
My mom owns a small publishing business. If I word things correctly, I can probably manage to have my photo business as part of her publishing business. She also knows all about taxes and IRS and all that stuff. If it gets too much for me to handle, or I start making tons of money, I'll ask for her help.
On another note, should I use DPCPrints to print stuff? It'd be cheap and easy for me, and 75% is a good percentage (I'm on another website where I'd get maybe 50%, I like DPC's system).
Message edited by author 2008-07-18 00:00:43. |
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07/18/2008 03:44:12 AM · #34 |
OK, moving aside from the `setting up a business` side of things and since no one else is being straight I guess I will have to be. Personally I don't think your images are of a marketable quality at the moment, now before you get all upset and tell me to poke my opinion up my arse (ass) hear me out..
I checked out your website (although it doesn't seem to be working now) and to be honest I don't think you would do yourself any favors charging people for work at this moment in time. There are a lot of things you still need to learn such as composition, processing, lighting etc. The majority of stuff seems to be images that you have taken and thought "hey, thats pretty good", I know because I used to be like that when I first started out, especially with DSLR photography. If you charge people for below professional work then chances are they wont be coming back to you if they can see they can get better results elsewhere for a bit more money, and more importantly, they will not be recommended you. Also, if you are trying to run the business properly then you wont be able to devote a lot of time to the learning side of things, trust me, at this moment in time I am gearing up for my first wedding exhibitions (the National shows, not tinpot local shows) and I have hardly any time to myself these days, designing exhibition stands or brochures or keeping on top of accounts and albums and getting new business - seriously, getting to bed at 3am on a week nights isn't a rarity in this house at the moment..
So my advice to you is to go out there and improve your craft, enjoy yourself - so what if you haven't got enough money for lenses, sadly thats the way of the world, some people cannot have everything they want. If you can make a bob-or-two along the way great, but don't focus on the money making aspect of it all. Don`t get me wrong, I am still learning all the time, but I would like to think I have nailed the basics so this allows me to move on to more creative or advanced techniques. Too many people these days buy a DSLR and think they can make it as a photographer, maybe they see it as an easy way to make money and think its a bit glam, who knows?
Bottom line is, at this moment in time you would do a disservice to yourself if you started charging people for your work.
Still, you asked for advice and I have given it.. hope some of it helps.. |
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07/18/2008 04:57:48 AM · #35 |
I have to agree with SImms here to be honest. I looked through you photos that you took of the young ladies, and really out of all of them there are a few that could be printed.
Maybe this is an idea to start off with. Charge your friends and family 20 bucks for the whole session. That way you will learn how to do it and get your pin money. Also, once you have edited them, you can show them to them and they can pick out which ones they really like, and then you charge them for each print, so on each print you could make a few dollars extra.
that is what i would do i vastly improved the basics in photography |
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07/18/2008 08:50:08 AM · #36 |
Originally posted by Simms:
... getting to bed at 3am on a week nights isn't a rarity in this house at the moment... |
So that's why you're always so grumpy!
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07/18/2008 11:27:38 AM · #37 |
As far as the taxes are concerned, Its about $50-$100 to register your business name in the county you live. Registering a tax ID is ?(i forget if its free or a small fee now, been awhile) and the only thing you need to keep track of is paying sales tax. You can do it quarterly, so its not an everyday hassle, just keep track of it. It'll be good practice, and 6-7% depending on your states sales tax is minimal. You don't have to worry about income tax unless you make over $3k, and then you just have to put that % away and pay at the end of the year. If the funds are going to be put away for lenses, etc.. You'll have the money being saved anyway, and its good practice.
You can get away with it being part of your mother's business, but if you start learning the basics now, you'll be better off in the long run. Even as part of her business, try to keep the records for yourself, so you'll have a grasp of it when its time to break out on your own. |
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07/18/2008 01:04:10 PM · #38 |
Also look at the tutorials and forums on this website on how to improvise for lighting on a budget. Just keep shooting and practicing, including post-processing. Learn amounts/limitations of light your equiipment can handle. Learn how to make the most out of what you have. When you can get a ribbon or higher-placing here, your skills are at a certain level. It can be fun, but it takes work.
It's been said many times here that it's not just-the-equipment, its showing your skills and optimizing what you've got.
There are many boats in the oceans, some are more suitable for certain situations. Don't let the mega yachts scare you. They all can get from point A to B, some are limited in distance, capacity, etc. Yes, you can make some money, the final results are what count.
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07/18/2008 02:18:13 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by justamistere:
When you can get a ribbon or higher-placing here, your skills are at a certain level. |
Higher than a ribbon?? wow..
anyway, that comment is total nonsense, getting a ribbon on DPC means jack-sh*t in the real world. Remember, even Ansel Adams couldn't win the "Ansel Adams" challenge, so that basically says it all.
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07/18/2008 02:18:27 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by Simms:
... getting to bed at 3am on a week nights isn't a rarity in this house at the moment... |
So that's why you're always so grumpy!
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Thats all an act honey... xxx |
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07/18/2008 02:34:52 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by Simms:
Originally posted by justamistere:
When you can get a ribbon or higher-placing here, your skills are at a certain level. |
Higher than a ribbon?? wow..
anyway, that comment is total nonsense, getting a ribbon on DPC means jack-sh*t in the real world. Remember, even Ansel Adams couldn't win the "Ansel Adams" challenge, so that basically says it all. |
Wait, Ansel Adams is on DPC? What's his username?
ETA: Zack DeZon is an idiotic newbie who doesn't research his photographic legends before he talks about him. Dead for 24 years now, eh? Stupid, stupid, stupid.
But, I'm still puzzled by the comment I quoted--what did it mean? I mean clearly he can't win the challenge in his current state, but that wasn't what it sounded like what was meant.
Message edited by author 2008-07-18 17:21:31. |
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07/18/2008 02:39:05 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by zackdezon:
Originally posted by Simms:
Originally posted by justamistere:
When you can get a ribbon or higher-placing here, your skills are at a certain level. |
Higher than a ribbon?? wow..
anyway, that comment is total nonsense, getting a ribbon on DPC means jack-sh*t in the real world. Remember, even Ansel Adams couldn't win the "Ansel Adams" challenge, so that basically says it all. |
Wait, Ansel Adams is on DPC? What's his username? |
Mick |
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07/18/2008 02:44:52 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by Simms:
Originally posted by justamistere:
When you can get a ribbon or higher-placing here, your skills are at a certain level. |
Higher than a ribbon?? wow..
anyway, that comment is total nonsense, getting a ribbon on DPC means jack-sh*t in the real world. Remember, even Ansel Adams couldn't win the "Ansel Adams" challenge, so that basically says it all. |
I think the meaning of "certain level" here is: "able to please the voters", which does mean something in the real world if you want your work to have mass-appeal.
Message edited by author 2008-07-18 14:45:37.
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07/18/2008 04:39:33 PM · #44 |
DPC has nothing to do with mass-appeal. The consistent voters here have a certain style/that always score higher. Not that this is a bad thing since we have a much tighter group here than other sites, but it definitely can't be compared to mass-appeal. Some of the most successful photographers on the site, have the fewest or no ribbons at all.
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07/18/2008 04:50:24 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by wsl:
DPC has nothing to do with mass-appeal. The consistent voters here have a certain style/that always score higher. Not that this is a bad thing since we have a much tighter group here than other sites, but it definitely can't be compared to mass-appeal. Some of the most successful photographers on the site, have the fewest or no ribbons at all. |
Really.. who? |
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07/18/2008 04:57:27 PM · #46 |
I always say go for it. If you dive in, you will sink or swim, but at least youre doing it which is more than most can say.
For prints, my first job, I printed 4x6 at one of those instant print makers and had the customer pick from that. I wrote on teh back what size they wanted. From there I just ordered from a company like www.bayphoto.com. Worked fine and made money.
You won't get in trouble for doing business...yet. Just go for it.
As to your site. You can't please everyone. Let potential customers know you are new and willing to work with them even if it means multiple edits, redos etc... You don't really have that much overhead so find out what works and learn as you do. Its not like you are trying to feed a family of 4 w/ this. I guarantee if you just jump in and do it, you will learn more than reading threads could ever offer you. You may loose some money at first, but you will quickly fix those problems.
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07/18/2008 05:35:39 PM · #47 |
| One thing to bear in mind is that if you can't afford to buy new lenses, one option available would be to rent them.. if only there was somewhere that did affordable lens rental... |
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07/18/2008 07:12:51 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by Simms:
Originally posted by wsl:
DPC has nothing to do with mass-appeal. The consistent voters here have a certain style/that always score higher. Not that this is a bad thing since we have a much tighter group here than other sites, but it definitely can't be compared to mass-appeal. Some of the most successful photographers on the site, have the fewest or no ribbons at all. |
Really.. who? |
grigrigirl - 1 blue, 137 entries, 5.8 avg. 9 overall
Idnic - 2 blue, 228 entries, 5.8 avg. 6 overall
Skip - 1 blue, 105 entries, 5.8 avg. 4 overall
Prof_Fate - 0 ribbons
dwterry - 2 blue, 104 entries, 5.7 avg, 3 overall
Thats just a quick glance. And I know 9 might seem like a decent # for grigrigirl, but considering how successful she is, you'd think she could grasp a higher vote avg. And the rest on the list are all accomplished, and working consistently, yet aren't breaking records here. Simms, you actually have as many blue as all of those listed combined, and a higher avg. You're just as talented, but just wanted to dispute strikeslip's claim that ribboning here = real world success. |
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07/18/2008 08:03:29 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by Simms:
Originally posted by zackdezon:
Wait, Ansel Adams is on DPC? What's his username? |
Mick |
No, I'm not Ansel Adams. I'm much better than he ever dreamed of being. :)
Jessie,
Don't let Simms here discourage you. What he said about you lacking talent is just his opinion. And you know what they say about opinions; many of them come with an asshole attached... or something like that. ;)
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07/18/2008 08:30:13 PM · #50 |
There really are too many facets to photography to judge it based on one community. It isn't like a kitchen product where you can identify a lacking tool for the cook, produce it and become rich. There aren't holes which need to be filled in, rather it is a wide demand across the board.
I find many ribbon place photos nice, I find more that have not ribboned as preferable. There so many markets, take simple landscapes and flowers and you will find doctor offices and lawyers as clients, bright colorful pictures of food - restaurants, high-key black and white portraits - somebodies living room.
As for the quality of a photographers work, your works should say something or relate to a theme your intended client has.
You do not need technically perfect shots if your message is strong enough, or if you toss crisp colors together with no message at all you will still find someone who will want it, but it has to have something one way or another.
Sorry for getting so wordy, it just spilled out, good luck! |
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