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07/06/2008 12:16:20 PM · #1 |
This is my dad's rant, I don't necessarily agree with it, I just thought it was interesting.
The way America is going now, it will 'self'-destruct in a matter of years. So basically, whoever is in office will get the blame. That's always how it works, forget who drove the country to hell, just know who was leading it when it got there. So if McCain is elected, people will distrust old white guys to run the country, our leaders will then become more diverse and young. If Obama is elected, he will be known as the black president who ruined the country. Race relations will be set back 100 years, and our country will be in further shambles.
It's a very cynical idea, but one that might be true if the country does fall apart in the next few years. |
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07/06/2008 12:58:37 PM · #2 |
I don't agree at all. 1960s situation was worse and USA survived. It will survive these difficult times too. Your dad is pretty pessimistic guy if you ask me, or yourself too in that matter since you found it interesting... Talk to him, and see what comes up next, have conversation, compare times.
Just because gas got more expensive doesn't mean anything (if that makes your dad worry too much). This is temporary and having gas this high is actually good to push minds to work harder to find alternatives earlier than later.
I don't care who'd be the president, but things will be better for the future not worse... unless if we all get hit by a big rock from outer space.
'Self' destruct? I don't get this? |
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07/06/2008 01:53:07 PM · #3 |
The cost of energy is only a piece of the problem. Loss of the manufacturing base is far more destructive. Allowing foreigners to own property and businesses is another. Why should we extend citizen rights to non-citizens? I never thought America would turn Socialist or Communist but we have fallen complacent and elected 'self' 'serving' officials and corruption is rampant. I fear the trend cannot be reversed. There are too many voters on the government teat and there are too many liberals who want to take from those who work and prosper and give to those who are lazy and foolish and refuse to provide for themselves. I really love buying the beer, cigarettes, food, scratch-offs and entertainment for those won't work.
JB, I think your dad is right but it probably don't matter.
Message edited by author 2008-07-06 14:04:00.
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07/06/2008 02:02:57 PM · #4 |
| If foreigners didn't own property or businesses, the country would still be largely uninhabited, definitely not facing an energy crisis or the risk of 'self'-destruction, nor be populated by those "damn liberals who are lazy and foolish". :-) |
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07/06/2008 02:05:10 PM · #5 |
Sorry, but you don't have a clue of what I said.
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07/06/2008 02:09:06 PM · #6 |
Isolationism was a wonderful idea years ago, but it's a "global" marketplace now and we need to learn to work with it, whether we like it or not. My German car was made in Mexico and shipped here. Toyotas are made in the US. My point was the country was founded by "foreigners" - it is what made it THE place to be to begin with. I think a healthy and reasonable influx of "foreigners" keeps the country alive, moving forward.
Out of curiousity (I don't follow the stats), what is the percentage of welfare recipients these days? |
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07/06/2008 02:12:07 PM · #7 |
| That's an interesting argument but I don't really see the United States, "'self'-destructing" in the next few years. Personally I find our country far from what our fathers intended for it. The "laissez faire" approach as it relates to economics has definitely not been the case and I don't really think that more government programs and policies will get us out of the energy/economic slump were in. Something has got to change sometime, it's just a matter of when. This is a bit off topic I guess, but I think in some way it all relates. |
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07/06/2008 02:21:23 PM · #8 |
cost of the energy is one of aspect of the actual develop model of the world. it have a reflection even on the cost of the kinds of necessities milk,bread,petrol... have similar prices that now begin be unsustainable for many families. at this time here we have the milk to 2.88 USA$/liter bread 2.88 USA$/KG and petrol 2.90 USA$/liter. this is the effect of the dollar that go down for the federal reserve economic politics and of the international speculation on the markets. if the families can't sold its evident that the production go down and this produce other problems. isolationism of the USA has been always a great problem, when you close the biggest market of the world there are problem for everyone.....
Message edited by author 2008-07-06 14:23:38. |
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07/06/2008 03:22:30 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
Isolationism was a wonderful idea years ago, but it's a "global" marketplace now and we need to learn to work with it, whether we like it or not. My German car was made in Mexico and shipped here. Toyotas are made in the US. My point was the country was founded by "foreigners" - it is what made it THE place to be to begin with. I think a healthy and reasonable influx of "foreigners" keeps the country alive, moving forward.
Out of curiousity (I don't follow the stats), what is the percentage of welfare recipients these days? |
In the United States Welfare percentage is around 7%. Doing the math with an average household having 2.5 childred leaves 3 percent being adults on welfare if my math is right. Now take into consideration that acording to DHR stats less than 5% of receipients actualy need welfare We have a lot of losers on the tax payers dime. Now as far as gas goes why has everyone forgot 12th grade economics. Supply and demand. As long as China and the Rest of the world that is just now going through the industrial revolution continues to increase the amount of fuel the consume, the prices of fuel is going to increase. We can stop using fuel all together and it still is going to rise. As far as Obama is concerned it's real simple NOT ENOUGH EXPERIENCE. If elected he will be another do nothing or destructive president. Not that Mccain is any better. I read a quote the other day that Went like this. Choosing the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil. I do agree with the statement that if your not a US citizen you should not be extended the rights under the constitution. Like 'voting' or the right to bare arms or due process...
Message edited by author 2008-07-06 15:24:51. |
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07/06/2008 03:41:20 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by coronamv:
[I do agree with the statement that if your not a US citizen you should not be extended the rights under the constitution. Like 'voting' or the right to bare arms or due process... |
look that this is a dangerous idea. in these days in italy we have a minister that want take the fingerprints to the ROM children only because ROM(i.e. an ethnicity that come principally from Romania) and for me this is racism. if you denies the right of the costitution of your country to someone that live in your country, even if this person don't have your same nationality or if this person is an irregular immigrant, this leads along a dangerous way...... |
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07/06/2008 04:12:46 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by coronamv:
Like 'voting' or the right to bare arms or due process... |
I think bare arms are OK as long as it's warm enough out. Otherwise you probably should wear a jacket. :-)
(Not sure anyone advocated non-citizens be allowed to vote. I must have missed that.) |
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07/06/2008 04:44:40 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by David Ey:
The cost of energy is only a piece of the problem. Loss of the manufacturing base is far more destructive. Allowing foreigners to own property and businesses is another. Why should we extend citizen rights to non-citizens? I never thought America would turn Socialist or Communist but we have fallen complacent and elected 'self' 'serving' officials and corruption is rampant. I fear the trend cannot be reversed. There are too many voters on the government teat and there are too many liberals who want to take from those who work and prosper and give to those who are lazy and foolish and refuse to provide for themselves. I really love buying the beer, cigarettes, food, scratch-offs and entertainment for those won't work.
JB, I think your dad is right but it probably don't matter. |
ROFLMAO, David you crack me up. Blaming foreigners and liberals for the state of affairs. LOL OH man. Bush and his cronies are liberals then? Am I correct? If not then who the heck are you talking about? |
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07/06/2008 04:49:43 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by Jac:
Originally posted by David Ey:
The cost of energy is only a piece of the problem. Loss of the manufacturing base is far more destructive. Allowing foreigners to own property and businesses is another. Why should we extend citizen rights to non-citizens? I never thought America would turn Socialist or Communist but we have fallen complacent and elected 'self' 'serving' officials and corruption is rampant. I fear the trend cannot be reversed. There are too many voters on the government teat and there are too many liberals who want to take from those who work and prosper and give to those who are lazy and foolish and refuse to provide for themselves. I really love buying the beer, cigarettes, food, scratch-offs and entertainment for those won't work.
JB, I think your dad is right but it probably don't matter. |
ROFLMAO, David you crack me up. Blaming foreigners and liberals for the state of affairs. LOL OH man. Bush and his cronies are liberals then? Am I correct? If not then who the heck are you talking about? |
To blame Bush and Co. for current state of affairs in America is as short sighted and naive as blaming all of it on foreigners and liberals.
A lot of our "issues" go back way further than 8 years. |
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07/06/2008 05:07:28 PM · #14 |
| There is a way, and only one way, to change the way our Government works, VOTE. Currently about 50% of the Americans show up at the 'voting' booth, leaving our current government or any from the last couple decades the idea that the other 50% of the population does not care how itâs run.. |
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07/06/2008 05:09:49 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by coronamv:
Now take into consideration that acording to DHR stats less than 5% of receipients actualy need welfare ... |
That has got to be the biggest piece of unsupported statistical bovine byproduct I've seen posted here in quite some time.
Do Congress members need a perdiem in addition to their salaries? Do oil companies deserve special tax consideration instead of using their billions in profits? You think millionaires should make more and pay less, but that hungry kids don't "need" welfare? Open your eyes and walk through any US downtown and repeat that with a straight face. |
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07/06/2008 05:20:42 PM · #16 |
karmat, you are correct. Also, I was not aware I blamed foreigners and liberals for our state of affairs. The fault lies upon the voters who have continually elected those who are only concerned with their own pork filled projects and under the table bags of money passed to them with no regard to what it does to the country as a whole.
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07/06/2008 05:21:27 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by alans_world:
There is a way, and only one way, to change the way our Government works, VOTE. Currently about 50% of the Americans show up at the 'voting' booth, leaving our current government or any from the last couple decades the idea that the other 50% of the population does not care how it’s run.. |
AMEN to that ;)
...actually 50% that is not 'voting' complains the most :P
so... VOTE! |
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07/06/2008 05:27:33 PM · #18 |
Hmmm... I do usually vote, but may not this year. Why? Two reasons - one is that I heard in the last Presidential election, absentee ballots in my state were not counted, as they could make no possible difference in the outcome. The other is that my state of residence is the great state of Texas, where if you wish your vote to count, you must vote Republican. With the electoral college setup the way it is, votes other than those for Republican candidates for President simply don't matter. That's not to say I'd vote Democratic, but you can see where whatever I vote won't change anything.
I will vote on local issues when I'm there, though. And for local offices. But the whole Presidential thing? Can't see where it makes any difference. |
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07/06/2008 05:33:29 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
Hmmm... I do usually vote, but may not this year. Why? Two reasons - one is that I heard in the last Presidential election, absentee ballots in my state were not counted, as they could make no possible difference in the outcome. The other is that my state of residence is the great state of Texas, where if you wish your vote to count, you must vote Republican. With the electoral college setup the way it is, votes other than those for Republican candidates for President simply don't matter. That's not to say I'd vote Democratic, but you can see where whatever I vote won't change anything.
I will vote on local issues when I'm there, though. And for local offices. But the whole Presidential thing? Can't see where it makes any difference. |
follow this reasoning anyone not vote....:) |
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07/06/2008 05:39:28 PM · #20 |
GenE, I agree with most of that with the exception of the rich paying less. It just don't work that way.
As far as the hungry, why give the guardians money or stamps they can trade for money? How many times have you seen purchases of the oh so necessary beer and cigs bought with cash and then food paid for with government vouchers? I see it all the time and the slob jogs out to get in their 30K+ suv parked in a handicap spot. I'd think it would be far more effective to set up feeding houses, such as McDonalds, where the hungry could go to eat, and those able could work there to earn their food.
ALL the hungry could be fed for probably 20% of what is currently being spent. Those who refuse to work and are able should go hungry until they change their mind. Housing could be handled in a similar manner.
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07/06/2008 05:45:52 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by FocusPoint:
[quote=alans_world] so... VOTE! |
If you are not a productive member of the society ie: a taxpayer or a retired taxpayer, you should have no vote. Otherwise you have people 'voting' who may not have any idea what is good for the country.
well, those folks might not know best either but you mighht have fewer elected who get their votes by promising to give a free ride to the welfare folks.
Message edited by author 2008-07-06 17:52:09.
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07/06/2008 05:48:25 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by David Ey:
...Otherwise you have people 'voting' who may not have any idea what is good for the country. |
Agreed but I am pretty sure that's not 50% of the country :) |
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07/06/2008 05:54:01 PM · #23 |
I wish we could throw all the bums out. There is no good choice this term.
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07/06/2008 05:58:53 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by David Ey:
Originally posted by FocusPoint:
[quote=alans_world] so... VOTE! |
If you are not a productive member of the society ie: a taxpayer or a retired taxpayer, you should have no vote. Otherwise you have people 'voting' who may not have any idea what is good for the country.
well, those folks might not know best either but you mighht have fewer elected who get their votes by promising to give a free ride to the welfare folks. |
...and if you lost the work for some reason during the year your vote right should be suspended or you could vote only for the percentage of the year that you have worked? i.e. if you lost the work in june your vote count as half vote? I am italian and I don't vote in USA but this idea that could vote only if you are a taxpayer seems me ridiculous |
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07/06/2008 07:35:41 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by alans_world:
There is a way, and only one way, to change the way our Government works, VOTE. Currently about 50% of the Americans show up at the 'voting' booth, leaving our current government or any from the last couple decades the idea that the other 50% of the population does not care how itâs run.. |
âIf 'voting' changed anything, they'd make it illegal.â Emma Goldman |
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