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06/23/2008 02:15:42 PM · #51 |
All must remember the rule..."Energy can niether be created nor destroyed."
I saw the video on CNN about the Aptera concept car. I got real excited thinking there are companies that might be able to produce a vehicle capable of hundreds of miles to the gallon. Then as I researched it more I found out that the company is to far away from production and has a waiting list of about 2500 people.
I then saw the clip about hypermiling and went to the guys website where I followed another link to a site about using water to power a vehicle. That led to me watching about 30 videos on YouTube on how to add a fuel cell to your car and nearly double your fueld economy. I saw in pure disbelief that technology that is so simple as this is available to us all yet kept frmo the mass market.
The point of all of this is the technology is out there. It is readily available and reasonably priced for us to rteduce our oil consumption demand. The problem is the people that have the resources to bring us this technology don't want to. They don't want to because they are making too much money on oil. As long as that is the case the small start-up companies like Aptera will never stand a chance. |
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06/23/2008 02:18:17 PM · #52 |
The thing that drives me nuts about politicians is that they can take a valid point, i.e. CFLs have mercury and are only made in China, and then most politicians like this guy go overboard and completely destroy their credibility with arguments that rival the stupidity of what their arguing against. Congress certainly did not make it a crime to not evacuate a room if a CFL breaks and suggesting it might happen makes this guy look stupid. IF CFLs are currently only made in China then perhaps the US market should go to work on making some of their own.
The congressman's one valid and important point is that the CFLs are made with mercury which we all know is dangerous to the environment. The next question should be, can the US make them and perhaps even make them without mercury? If there is some reason the US can't make these things without mercury then I think the congressman's time would have been better spent explaining the facts rather than making political exaggerations.
Originally posted by MelonMusketeer:
While we are on the energy and toxins subject;
Something that you need to know about compact florescent lights. (Light bulb police, 5 min vid clip)
Us Congress in Session |
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06/23/2008 02:20:26 PM · #53 |
Originally posted by Man_Called_Horse:
What is needed is a new resource that keeps the planet safe, and all humans happy. |
Yeah, we need MAGIC JUICE! Then the whole planet will be safe and all the humans will be happy!
I can't wait!!!
Meanwhile, back to reality...
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06/23/2008 02:23:44 PM · #54 |
I should have also added that I watched this documentary this weekend where people started to die. It appears that the plants and trees and grass on the earth are beginning to release toxins into the air the cause humans to lose their ability to defend themselves against self harm. People in large groups are triggering this toxin to be released by the plants. Then all of the people affected by the toxins stop what they are doing, and then one by one kill themselves.
We should change the way we treat the environment before more people die from these deadly plant toxins. |
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06/23/2008 02:34:17 PM · #55 |
All of this is great talk ... but a reality check is needed.
Fact is that we need oil to maintain life as we know it today.
We need clean coal technology and other proven alternatives (nuke, wind, hydro solar comes to mind)
as part of a mix of resources.
As soon as drilling is discussed someone shrikes about "driving your gas gussling suv" well frankly that is a BS argument IMHO. I drive a car that gets about 25 MPG ... I still need oil to make that thing run. Electric cars with a 40 mile range is just not an option when you live in a area without public transportation.
and guess what ... I don't need to pay 5 bucks a gallon for the stuff.
We have the resources right here to produce the oil we need to maintain our lifestyles. Lets drill Alaska, and west tx and the gulf. the folks that talk about killing the planet are living in a la-la land made of sugar plums ... we have done more in the past 30 years to clean up and protect the environment than ever in history. That is not going to stop. but we need to use the resources that we have available and be responsible about it.
tree hugging is not going to get us out of the mess that we are in now .
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06/23/2008 02:38:12 PM · #56 |
Originally posted by BHuseman:
The point of all of this is the technology is out there. It is readily available and reasonably priced for us to rteduce our oil consumption demand. The problem is the people that have the resources to bring us this technology don't want to. They don't want to because they are making too much money on oil. As long as that is the case the small start-up companies like Aptera will never stand a chance. |
PROVE IT. lets see it in action and not a youtube video ... there are a bunch of people hyping a lot of stuff that just isn't real...
wanna pop popcorn with your cell phone ?
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06/23/2008 02:42:21 PM · #57 |
FACT:
U.S. not drilling in the gulf and coastal regions around Florida will result in one of the worst ecological disasters and one of the largest ever oil spill.
WHY: Because China is working with Cuba to drill that very oil. If we don't drill it, here's what's going to happen. A nation with one of the worst environmental track records (worst than the early industrial United States because they actually know the ramifications) will be mining that oil. And what do they care if a 100 million gallons of oil washes up on Florida's beaches. So they're going to drill our own gulf oil then sell it back to us at inflated costs. And make us foot the bill for the environmental damage.
We'd be better off to drill it ourselves. Under strict U.S. regulations.
FACT:
Drilling Anwar would cause minimal impact to the region.
WHY: Because it is a very very small part of the region. There's really not that much there. What about the knocking down of trees to build the oil well. Well sorry, they're just aren't that many trees that far up north.
//images.google.com/images?gbv=2&hl=en&q=Anwar+Alaska&btnG=Search+Images
//www.stkate.edu/physics/phys100/17-Caribou_no_impact%5B1%5D.jpg
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The Solution...is not to stop the collection of oil. But to make sure we transition ourselves. It'd be better to allow the drilling of these locations. But allocate the profits to go toward subsidizing solar cell installation on our homes.
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"What is needed is a new resource that keeps the planet safe, and all humans happy."
As soon as you find one, puh-lease let the rest of the world know. The best option we have at the moment is nuclear power. And before you start griping about waste. Realize modern nuclear power plants can recycle a lot of that waste. And the waste that's always the media panic because it'll be around for millions of years. Is essentially harmless. Radioactive materials with extremely long half-lifes are actually much safer than those with short half-lives.
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"The oil companies own all the patents to alternate energy sources. Our hands are pretty much tied."
Balogney...in fact, there are many nations (a.k.a. China) that have little recognition for patents. And more need than most for energy.
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"Pollution is a second thought to these companies. "
NO...POLLUTION is a second thought to YOU!
We're the one's using the oil. Not Mobil-Exxon. Oh, and don't blame the SUVs. The difference between an SUV and your car is not that drastic. But how often do you toss out a "plastic" cup, fork, or other product?
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"But, let me ask this....what are your kids, kids going to do when Long Island is under water? "
Long Island will not be underwater any time soon. And if it will be, than nothing we can do will stop it because it will be a solar event.
Oh, and those great figures Mr. Gore like to tout in order to make profit on his "carbon credit" companies. They've been found flawed in a number of ways. They were falsely adjusted. And in fact, multiple other sources have shown cooling trends in recent years.
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"I happened to watch An Inconvenient Truth last night for the first time. It is very eye opening."
So are most pseudo-documentaries filled mis-information if you don't research the facts.
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"Biofuel is not the answer either, as it takes a lot of fertilizer, fuel, and water (80 gal ) to grow the crop and make a gallon of fuel. The run off from all the fertilizer is killing the Gulf of Mexico"
You're not thinking...
We have tons of fertilizer and over-fertilized water. We wouldn't need to create any more. It's called "sewage". And it's was creates much of the dead zones.
Second, corn is not the answer - algae is. So we pump our processed sewage (over-fertilized water) , grow the algae, harvest it and turn it into biofuel. Not only do we create a renewable fuel source. We also eliminate pollution from our sewer plants AND the algae would re-uptake CO2. Thus we'd have an environmentally positive renewable fuel source.
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06/23/2008 02:46:04 PM · #58 |
Originally posted by theSaj:
FACT:
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OMG I agree with Jason (again) I think I need to go to a Al Gore speach or something :) |
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06/23/2008 02:47:39 PM · #59 |
Originally posted by nomad469:
Originally posted by BHuseman:
The point of all of this is the technology is out there. It is readily available and reasonably priced for us to rteduce our oil consumption demand. The problem is the people that have the resources to bring us this technology don't want to. They don't want to because they are making too much money on oil. As long as that is the case the small start-up companies like Aptera will never stand a chance. |
PROVE IT. lets see it in action and not a youtube video ... there are a bunch of people hyping a lot of stuff that just isn't real...
wanna pop popcorn with your cell phone ? |
Why don't you prove to me that it doesn't exist. It is naysayers like yourselves that has left us in the position we are in. |
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06/23/2008 02:58:45 PM · #60 |
Originally posted by BHuseman:
Originally posted by nomad469:
Originally posted by BHuseman:
The point of all of this is the technology is out there. It is readily available and reasonably priced for us to rteduce our oil consumption demand. The problem is the people that have the resources to bring us this technology don't want to. They don't want to because they are making too much money on oil. As long as that is the case the small start-up companies like Aptera will never stand a chance. |
PROVE IT. lets see it in action and not a youtube video ... there are a bunch of people hyping a lot of stuff that just isn't real...
wanna pop popcorn with your cell phone ? |
Why don't you prove to me that it doesn't exist. It is naysayers like yourselves that has left us in the position we are in. |
I tend to disagree ... my position is if you have a technology ... bring it to market dont just talk about it ...
remember a 1n 1990 Pons and cold fusion ??? That was supposed to change the world ... what did that get us ... nadda.
we have spent a lot of time in history trying to spin straw into gold. While the attempts may prove out at some point we can not sit on our hands and do nothing. We have technologies that are proven and effective out there ... lets use them and get out of this mess. When other technologies come on-line they would be part of the mix.
Not a naysayer in any way ... I am a realist.
Message edited by author 2008-06-23 15:00:06. |
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06/23/2008 03:09:59 PM · #61 |
Originally posted by nomad469:
[quote=BHuseman] [quote=nomad469] [quote=BHuseman]
It is readily available and reasonably priced for us to rteduce our oil consumption demand. The problem is the people that have the resources to bring us this technology don't want to. They don't want to because they are making too much money on oil. |
One other point ...
If someone had a workable available and reasonably priced system that would get your car across the country on 22 gallons of gas. Don't you think that the line of boxcars packed with greenbacks would be pretty impressive at the developers door???
The fact is that the technology either does not exist as advertised or is not ready for prime time.
Message edited by author 2008-06-23 15:11:03. |
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06/23/2008 03:30:58 PM · #62 |
For the longest time there has been discussions among my work mates here in Houston on why technology in the energy sector hasnt advance. At the time most believed that if we suddenly came up with an alternate source of fuel our economy would collapse due to that too many things depend on Oil as the primary source of energy.
Now with the oil prices being so high and everything daisy chaining in price increases. We are starting to think different. I think its all driven by money either way you look at it. Economics will always decide what is the next thing. |
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06/23/2008 04:11:34 PM · #63 |
Personally I don't know [Maybe I have an idea] why oil is so high but I firmly believe it's NOT because of a shortage.
I say this because when there are shortages in any sector governments seem to be able to put a restriction on it's usage.
Drought = Water restrictions!
Energy Demand = Consumption Restrictions!
Medication = Age / Health Restrictions!
Endangered Wildlife = Land and Game Restrictions!
Copper shortage during WWII = Restrictions! Thats why pennies were made of 100% steal coated with zinc from 1943 to 1945.
...I could go on and on
BUT
Oil Shortage = Where are the restrictions? NONE!
Message edited by author 2008-06-23 16:11:55. |
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06/23/2008 04:14:09 PM · #64 |
Originally posted by SDW:
Oil Shortage = Where are the restrictions? NONE! |
Thank god.
i guess in this case it would be different.
THANK ALLAH.
Message edited by author 2008-06-23 16:14:43. |
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06/23/2008 05:51:43 PM · #65 |
Originally posted by SDW:
Personally I don't know [Maybe I have an idea] why oil is so high |
George Bush 1 and 2!!
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06/23/2008 05:54:59 PM · #66 |
Originally posted by JaimeVinas:
For the longest time there has been discussions among my work mates here in Houston on why technology in the energy sector hasnt advance. |
Jaime, technology advancement in exploration, processing, production and refining HAVE increased immensely. We have over 30,000 engineers and scientists working just at my employer. The energy industry has developed more applications for supercomputing than than any other industry. Our compute capacity rivals that of NASA. These technology advancements have enabled us to operate in ultra-deep (7,000+ feet) waters and at total depths greater then 28,000 feet, in arctic environments and in the roughest seas. Automated shutdowns prevented any hydrocarbon leaks through the earthquake/tsunamis that hit Asia and through hurricanes Rita and Katrina.
Because it is an ugly, dirty job to produce and refine this stuff doesn't mean that this is a base, simple process. |
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06/23/2008 05:57:54 PM · #67 |
Originally posted by SDW:
Oil Shortage = Where are the restrictions? NONE! |
Bingo. The rate at which oil is pumped from the middle east hasn't changed very much since 2002. And there isn't any time when you can't go to a gas station and get gas or a time when you can't turn your furnace on and get heat from gas. Which means we are still consuming less than or equal to the amount of oil than they are pumping out of the ground each day. But the cost of that gas, which hasn't reached a shortage, has more than doubled and tripled? Makes no sense to me. Same goes for other things like, for example, the Nintendo Wii. There was a huge shortage around the holiday season, hence prices shot through the roof. Think anyone in their right mind would pay $600 for a Wii if you could buy one off the shelf for $250? No way (granted there are the exceptions to the rule). So why should the cost of gas triple when there is no shortage? The only difference is that we don't have a choice in the matter for gas.
Message edited by author 2008-06-23 17:58:46.
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06/23/2008 06:10:38 PM · #68 |
Originally posted by SamDoe1:
Originally posted by SDW:
Oil Shortage = Where are the restrictions? NONE! |
Bingo. The rate at which oil is pumped from the middle east hasn't changed very much since 2002. And there isn't any time when you can't go to a gas station and get gas or a time when you can't turn your furnace on and get heat from gas. Which means we are still consuming less than or equal to the amount of oil than they are pumping out of the ground each day. But the cost of that gas, which hasn't reached a shortage, has more than doubled and tripled? Makes no sense to me. |
We've pumped all the easy, light, sweet crude and are now working on lower grade crudes from those reservoirs, which require more refining, and are producing from newer, more expensive reservoirs that are deeper, farther out and in more difficult environments - geophysical and geopolitical. That accounts for the cost of operations. The run-up in crude prices beyond that is due to speculated (commoditized)demand concerns. |
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06/23/2008 06:13:11 PM · #69 |
Originally posted by SamDoe1:
Originally posted by SDW:
Oil Shortage = Where are the restrictions? NONE! |
Bingo. The rate at which oil is pumped from the middle east hasn't changed very much since 2002. And there isn't any time when you can't go to a gas station and get gas or a time when you can't turn your furnace on and get heat from gas. Which means we are still consuming less than or equal to the amount of oil than they are pumping out of the ground each day. But the cost of that gas, which hasn't reached a shortage, has more than doubled and tripled? Makes no sense to me. Same goes for other things like, for example, the Nintendo Wii. There was a huge shortage around the holiday season, hence prices shot through the roof. Think anyone in their right mind would pay $600 for a Wii if you could buy one off the shelf for $250? No way (granted there are the exceptions to the rule). So why should the cost of gas triple when there is no shortage? The only difference is that we don't have a choice in the matter for gas. |
While I'm not an economist, I'd say it is because we are getting closer to that point where we are consuming more than we are producing. By "we" I mean the world. Many businesses depend on oil or its byproducts (eg. the airlines, food transport, etc.) being available in a timely manner. You can't keep tomatoes waiting around two months while you wait for your diesel to transport them. When demand is greatly outpaced by production, nobody really worries about this. There is little risk the oil and gas you need won't be there when the time comes. When demand approaches production then there is more risk. If your income is entirely dependent on getting those tomatoes to market, then you are willing to pay a premium to guarantee you will have the oil/gas in two months when you really need it. Enter oil futures and the rise in price without demand actually outstripping production. Also, as demand approaches production the risk an unforseen event temporarily causes demand to outstrip production goes up. These events can range from natural disasters (eg. hurricanes) or political instability (eg. Nigeria).
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06/23/2008 09:03:26 PM · #70 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by SamDoe1:
Originally posted by SDW:
Oil Shortage = Where are the restrictions? NONE! |
Bingo. The rate at which oil is pumped from the middle east hasn't changed very much since 2002. And there isn't any time when you can't go to a gas station and get gas or a time when you can't turn your furnace on and get heat from gas. Which means we are still consuming less than or equal to the amount of oil than they are pumping out of the ground each day. But the cost of that gas, which hasn't reached a shortage, has more than doubled and tripled? Makes no sense to me. Same goes for other things like, for example, the Nintendo Wii. There was a huge shortage around the holiday season, hence prices shot through the roof. Think anyone in their right mind would pay $600 for a Wii if you could buy one off the shelf for $250? No way (granted there are the exceptions to the rule). So why should the cost of gas triple when there is no shortage? The only difference is that we don't have a choice in the matter for gas. |
While I'm not an economist, I'd say it is because we are getting closer to that point where we are consuming more than we are producing. By "we" I mean the world. Many businesses depend on oil or its byproducts (eg. the airlines, food transport, etc.) being available in a timely manner. You can't keep tomatoes waiting around two months while you wait for your diesel to transport them. When demand is greatly outpaced by production, nobody really worries about this. There is little risk the oil and gas you need won't be there when the time comes. When demand approaches production then there is more risk. If your income is entirely dependent on getting those tomatoes to market, then you are willing to pay a premium to guarantee you will have the oil/gas in two months when you really need it. Enter oil futures and the rise in price without demand actually outstripping production. Also, as demand approaches production the risk an unforseen event temporarily causes demand to outstrip production goes up. These events can range from natural disasters (eg. hurricanes) or political instability (eg. Nigeria). |
If this was or is the case then why haven't the government's of the world placed restrictions on gas consumption like during 1973-1974? |
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06/23/2008 09:15:15 PM · #71 |
It didn't work then and I doubt it would work now. Plus, any elected official here in the US who suggested this would certainly not win re-election. Consider it political suicide to suggest that we deviate from "American Dream".
Although, this might be a good time to dust off Carter's Crisis of Confidence speech. |
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06/23/2008 09:36:38 PM · #72 |
Originally posted by signal2noise:
It didn't work then and I doubt it would work now. Plus, any elected official here in the US who suggested this would certainly not win re-election. Consider it political suicide to suggest that we deviate from "American Dream".
Although, this might be a good time to dust off Carter's Crisis of Confidence speech. |
You hit the proverbial nail-on-the-head with that statement. It has more to do with politics than supply and demand. I would not consider today's prices at the pump and grocery store along with people loosing their homes and jobs as living the "American Dream". |
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06/23/2008 10:45:27 PM · #73 |
Dollartics : P
Here's a brief rant about the tomatoes; This season, the feds, FDC, will be taking the reins on tomato farming, picking, packing, and right on through to the final store shelf. This will become formal and be active beginning July 1st. Isn't it convenient that we would have a big "tomatoes with deadly bacteria" scare a couple of weeks before the FDC takes over. It's election year, and so when they look like they are jumping in a doing something big about the "problem" for us there will be much back patting. The whole thing has been moving toward this point for several years now, but no one outside the industry heard anything about it until just a couple of weeks ago. Many smaller farmers and packers will be put out of the tomato business, my primary customer for one, by the "new" regulations from Washington. The big growers and packers are getting in position to monopolize the entire business. OK rant off.
The midwest floods are going to put a LOT of run off into the Gulf in a few weeks too, as well as wrecking the feed and bio fuel crops, which will be another inflationary factor in the coming months.
This is a good discussion thread. We all seem to be made united by a common enemy, energy prices. Another bad fallout from the inflation will be that prices for good camera equipment will be going up too.
When I think back to about 1971 "ish" a box of cerial was about 30 cents, and a great steak was about 1.25. At that time gas was about 50 cents per gallon. Now cerial is about 3 to 4 $ a box, and everything else has followed. It all began when the US went off the gold standard and started printing more money to pump up the economy. Gold was $35 per ounce when I was in high school, and had been that way for a long time.
I still believe that solar power and all of us being more efficient is going to be the way we get things done in the future. Even hydrogen power is made by splitting water, which is an electrochemical thing, and takes more energy to do the splitting than is recovered by the burning of the hydrogen later.
It's cool that we have a "Green" challenge this week, let's all go get some great pics to post here when the challenge voting is over. Be sure to walk, bike or take public transportation to the shooting locations though. : )
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06/23/2008 11:02:28 PM · #74 |
Originally posted by MelonMusketeer:
Dollartics : P
... Be sure to walk, bike or take public transportation to the shooting locations though. : ) |
Won't be happening here as I currently only have one good leg and there is no public transportation out here in the farmlands.
Ray |
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06/23/2008 11:10:15 PM · #75 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by MelonMusketeer:
Dollartics : P
... Be sure to walk, bike or take public transportation to the shooting locations though. : ) |
Won't be happening here as I currently only have one good leg and there is no public transportation out here in the farmlands.
Ray |
Sorry if I offended you Ray. I would never expect that you only had one working leg by looking thru your portfolio. You are on my "good guy" list.
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