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06/11/2008 02:39:25 PM · #101 |
Wow, that last post was completely wrong in so many ways.
Someone with his degrees in a lean market is not going to just fall into work. In a lean market everyone is looking so competition is fierce. What he may of been over qualified for in the past is now going to PHD who is accepting less of a job. Basic business jobs now go to people with MBA's and more experience.
There is the problem of wage. He invested in schooling and further education. A $8/hr bagging groceries is not going to allow him to survive..hence the term working poor. There is only so much fat to trim. Its a gamble, take a low paying job and rack up debt slowly and eventually end up with no way out or look for a job that will provide. Obviously he planned while he was employed or he would have been homeless in teh time he was searching.
You do sound fortunate. You may think you worked hard, but really did you struggle to eat as a child? Did you struggle to make it to school? Did you have parents around to guide you? Did you pay for all of school yourself? Did you pay for all living expenses at the same time? If you needed loans did you have someone willing to cosign? Did you have family to fall on in a time of need?
There are people who say no to all these questions, I doubt you were one of them.
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06/11/2008 03:42:51 PM · #102 |
Well, that confirms my theory about you being condescending and naive. Regardless of how you view your position, you are fortunate. I'll bet I worked every bit as hard at getting through school and at work as you did. Hopefully your realization of your good fortune will not be as painful as mine was because I would not wish what I went through on anyone.
Did you not read my post? Like I said, I applied for every job I could physically or mentally perform. Day labor, assembly line, store clerk, you name it and I applied for it.
Originally posted by coronamv:
Sounds pretty bad. SO your sure you coud not find work? Any form of work? I mean any form of work to provide for your family? Now I say this not knowing you so please do not take this offensivly but were some jobs beneith you? Were you offered any jobs and refused them cause you did not agree with something like the wage or salary or benefits work schedule or location? WHy I ask is this is usually the case for some one being out of work for that extended period of time with your qualifications.
WHat part of the country do you live in, what is your legal status? Are you married and have children. Could your wife not work if so. Do you have any family to help you in your time of need? I don't see myself as fortunate since I have worked hard to get to where I'm at. I can tell you this something is wrong if with your degrees you could not find a job. I can go search and find many jobs that would provide a nice salary and good benefits for someone with your qualifications. Now let me say if you cannot except a job due to the pay will not provide you to continue your life style then its time to trim the fat.
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by coronamv:
I do see many people who cannot aford healthcare everyday. Usually they are uneducated and it usually a is a trait passed down from generation to generation. My parents taught me to strive to be better and live a better life. I can say I have known people who just were satisfied with the minimal and then they gripe about not having. It is more like a two faced arguement. Either you work hard and achieve or you don't. I'm just an example of someone who prove it as being capable to achieve. So I use myself as an example of what is possible.
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Let my example be the counter example to your example of fortune. I was unable to afford health insurance for an 11 month period after I was laid off. I worked every day to find work, it simply wasn't there. To cover my family with a high deductible policy would have cost nearly $900/mo and I would have had a $5,000 deductible with a $20,000 annual out-of-pocket max. As to being uneducated, you can judge for yourself, I have a Master's degree in Mechanical Engineering and a Professional Engineer's license. I applied for any and every position for which I was even remotely qualified. That's everything from customer service jobs and physical farm labor jobs to high level engineering positions. I suppose I could have gone back to get my PhD, but taking classes doesn't put food on the table.
You should consider yourself fortunate to not have an experience like mine, yet I find your attitude towards those less fortunate condescending and utterly naive. |
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Message edited by author 2008-06-11 16:36:14. |
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06/11/2008 03:44:38 PM · #103 |
How is he going to get health care when he works that $8/hr job??
To answer your question, coronamv, I have health care whenever I have a job that provides health care. That's how it is in the US. If you can't get the right kind of job, you lose. |
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06/11/2008 04:36:48 PM · #104 |
| I agree with Posthumous about the fact you lose, but who's fault is it? You choose the path in life you take. When you fail it ultimately is your fault. We can continue to blame those who make it in this world and make them pay for your failures then we all will be a sad case of welfare or individuals can start standing up and taking responsibility for their own actions life. You can continue and critize me for not being one of the people wanting free healthcare and welfare. You have to remember nothing is truly free. Someone pays. So it simple I don't care if you have healthcare or not and I don't expect you to provide any for me. Thanks for the debate we will have to agree to disagree.. |
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06/11/2008 04:43:52 PM · #105 |
Originally posted by coronamv:
I agree with Posthumous about the fact you lose, but who's fault is it? You choose the path in life you take. When you fail it ultimately is your fault. We can continue to blame those who make it in this world and make them pay for your failures then we all will be a sad case of welfare or individuals can start standing up and taking responsibility for their own actions life. You can continue and critize me for not being one of the people wanting free healthcare and welfare. You have to remember nothing is truly free. Someone pays. So it simple I don't care if you have healthcare or not and I don't expect you to provide any for me. Thanks for the debate we will have to agree to disagree.. |
I didn't choose to get laid off when the economy was taking a dive into the poop chute. Some corporate goon 15 levels above me, that only knows me as a number on his spreadsheet decided that.
At least you're honest enough to admit your apallingly callous disregard for those less fortunate than you. That's about the most pathetic thing I've ever seen posted in these forums and I really feel sorry for you because I think you really do believe it. |
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06/11/2008 06:06:45 PM · #106 |
Originally posted by coronamv:
I agree with Posthumous about the fact you lose, but who's fault is it? You choose the path in life you take. When you fail it ultimately is your fault. |
So, you believe in a world where everyone could be rich, if only they'd choose to be rich ...
If everyone chose to be a CEO, who'd clean the sewers? The magnitude of your lack of understanding of basic economics and the infrastructure required to keep the human population alive is rivalled only by the National Debt your "free market" friends have saddled our grandshildren with. |
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06/11/2008 08:08:02 PM · #107 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by coronamv:
I agree with Posthumous about the fact you lose, but who's fault is it? You choose the path in life you take. When you fail it ultimately is your fault. |
So, you believe in a world where everyone could be rich, if only they'd choose to be rich ...
If everyone chose to be a CEO, who'd clean the sewers? The magnitude of your lack of understanding of basic economics and the infrastructure required to keep the human population alive is rivalled only by the National Debt your "free market" friends have saddled our grandshildren with. |
I don't think anyone said we can all be rich if we just tried hard enough. Kind of an extreme argument, don't you think? coronamv just said when you fail it's your fault. I guess you must think anyone not a rich CEO is a failure! Pretty high bar you set there buddy. (kind of sucks when other people stretch your opinion, huh?)
And I don't consider getting laid off a failure. It's a set back. What you do after the layoff determines if you fail or not. |
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06/11/2008 08:53:43 PM · #108 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by coronamv:
I agree with Posthumous about the fact you lose, but who's fault is it? You choose the path in life you take. When you fail it ultimately is your fault. |
So, you believe in a world where everyone could be rich, if only they'd choose to be rich ...
If everyone chose to be a CEO, who'd clean the sewers? The magnitude of your lack of understanding of basic economics and the infrastructure required to keep the human population alive is rivalled only by the National Debt your "free market" friends have saddled our grandshildren with. |
I don't think anyone said we can all be rich if we just tried hard enough. Kind of an extreme argument, don't you think? coronamv just said when you fail it's your fault. |
Which group of people would choose to be poor members of the servant class?
"Hey Honey, let's give up this luxurant idleness, take the kids, and go be peons in Central America for a while." --Yeah, right ...
Everyone wants to be rich -- that's the American ideal, isn't it? So, if everyone can't be rich, just by trying hard enough, then there must be some other factor at work besides it being "their fault" ...
Message edited by author 2008-06-11 20:54:59. |
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06/11/2008 10:05:37 PM · #109 |
Originally posted by coronamv:
...or individuals can start standing up and taking responsibility for their own actions life. |
Or the world's richest Western nation can begin doing what every other Western nation on the planet is doing, and provide fundamental health care services to the population. What's the government for, if not to provide basic services? |
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06/11/2008 10:11:38 PM · #110 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Which group of people would choose to be poor members of the servant class? |
I'm not in that group so i can't speak for them, but several i know are students working on getting ahead, second income spouces or people content with where they are at.
Originally posted by GeneralE:
"Hey Honey, let's give up this luxurant idleness, take the kids, and go be peons in Central America for a while." --Yeah, right ...
Everyone wants to be rich -- that's the American ideal, isn't it? So, if everyone can't be rich, just by trying hard enough, then there must be some other factor at work besides it being "their fault" ... |
Yeah, everyone wants to be rich, pretty safe assumption. However, do you assume everyone tries as hard to get there? Slackers don't exist? You don't think there are people content where they are? You don't think there are people out there content on living off the govt? |
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06/11/2008 10:42:34 PM · #111 |
Originally posted by coronamv:
You choose the path in life you take. When you fail it ultimately is your fault. |
A statement of this ilk is akin to saying that if you are involved in a horrendous crash then it's your fault since you should have known that driving on the road can and does lead to accidents.
I wish you well in your life's endeavours and hope that you never experience the set backs some others have had to deal with in their lifetime through no fault of their own.
Not unlike yourself I too worked hard in my lifetime to gain the lifestyle I now enjoy, but luck did play a great deal in my success. Coming from a family of thirteen kids and not having electricity and running water until I was in my teens I have a full appreciation of life on the other side of the fence, and because of that I have a true understanding of what life can be like when you are fringing destitution.
Ray
Message edited by author 2008-06-11 22:46:43. |
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06/11/2008 10:53:38 PM · #112 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by coronamv:
...or individuals can start standing up and taking responsibility for their own actions life. |
Or the world's richest Western nation can begin doing what every other Western nation on the planet is doing, and provide fundamental health care services to the population. What's the government for, if not to provide basic services? |
Bombing 3rd world countries back to the stone-age.
Allowing, with little restriction, the import of tainted Chinese products and the export of jobs.
Bullying the rest of the world.
Intimidating our own citizens in the name of "The War on Terror".
Running our great grandchildren so deep into debt that they'll never get it paid.
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06/11/2008 11:14:37 PM · #113 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Which group of people would choose to be poor members of the servant class? |
I'm not in that group so i can't speak for them, but several i know are students working on getting ahead, second income spouces or people content with where they are at. |
Being supported by one's parents or student loans or living as a "second-income" spouse don't sound like being poor -- no one (except ascetic monks) chooses to live in poverty. And I bet the maids cleaning the Ritz or a farmworker picking strawberries for 12 hours "works" every bit as hard as some fat cat CEO deciding whether it will require an additional 5000 or 6000 layoffs to preserve shareholder confidence and his $5 million bonus ... |
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06/12/2008 11:03:13 AM · #114 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
no one (except ascetic monks) chooses to live in poverty. |
Strongly disagree. Dropping out of highschool because smoking weed is more fun, is a choice. Taking crack, meth or heroin the first time is a choice. Not going to college and chasing a career as a grocery store clerk is a choice. Getting pregnant at 16 is a choice. Staying in a comfortable job rather then take a risk is a choice. Taking an easier, lower paying job is a choice. Sure, no one directly comes out and says I want to be poor. However, choices they make lead them there.
But I like the message you send to our youth. Don't bother trying, success or failure is not in your control. Very motivational! Our future is in good hands.
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06/12/2008 11:51:32 AM · #115 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
[
Sure, no one directly comes out and says I want to be poor. However, choices they make lead them there. |
Would you consider that perhaps there do exist some poor folks who are there through no fault of their own. Yes it is true that slackers abound, but surely you understand that there are some folks who are so busy trying to make ends meet that they don't have the luxury of taking night classes and the like.
I for one lived on the "Other side of the tracks" most of my youth and albeit I did make my way out, others did not and it certainly wasn't for lack of trying... sometimes luck plays as big a factor as personal determination.
Something to consider,
Ray |
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06/12/2008 12:34:50 PM · #116 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
[
Sure, no one directly comes out and says I want to be poor. However, choices they make lead them there. |
Would you consider that perhaps there do exist some poor folks who are there through no fault of their own. Yes it is true that slackers abound, but surely you understand that there are some folks who are so busy trying to make ends meet that they don't have the luxury of taking night classes and the like.
I for one lived on the "Other side of the tracks" most of my youth and albeit I did make my way out, others did not and it certainly wasn't for lack of trying... sometimes luck plays as big a factor as personal determination.
Something to consider,
Ray |
Yes, that goes without saying. People get in accidents, people get sick... Things happen that are well out of our control and sometimes you can't recover from them.
However, I don't want to sound like a motivational poster, but minus unforseen and uncontrollable incidents, you are in control of what levels of success you achieve. Unfortunatley the decisions you make that lead you to success are not always labeled and usually the alternative is attractive in it has instant gratification. |
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06/12/2008 01:21:38 PM · #117 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
[
Sure, no one directly comes out and says I want to be poor. However, choices they make lead them there. |
Would you consider that perhaps there do exist some poor folks who are there through no fault of their own. Yes it is true that slackers abound, but surely you understand that there are some folks who are so busy trying to make ends meet that they don't have the luxury of taking night classes and the like.
I for one lived on the "Other side of the tracks" most of my youth and albeit I did make my way out, others did not and it certainly wasn't for lack of trying... sometimes luck plays as big a factor as personal determination.
Something to consider,
Ray |
Yes, that goes without saying. People get in accidents, people get sick... Things happen that are well out of our control and sometimes you can't recover from them.
However, I don't want to sound like a motivational poster, but minus unforseen and uncontrollable incidents, you are in control of what levels of success you achieve. Unfortunatley the decisions you make that lead you to success are not always labeled and usually the alternative is attractive in it has instant gratification. |
Oh really?
So people aren't limited by their own abilities or lack thereof? You'd say that someone with an IQ of 70 can be a succesful astrophysicist if they just try a little harder? |
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06/12/2008 01:58:10 PM · #118 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
[
Sure, no one directly comes out and says I want to be poor. However, choices they make lead them there. |
Would you consider that perhaps there do exist some poor folks who are there through no fault of their own. Yes it is true that slackers abound, but surely you understand that there are some folks who are so busy trying to make ends meet that they don't have the luxury of taking night classes and the like.
I for one lived on the "Other side of the tracks" most of my youth and albeit I did make my way out, others did not and it certainly wasn't for lack of trying... sometimes luck plays as big a factor as personal determination.
Something to consider,
Ray |
Yes, that goes without saying. People get in accidents, people get sick... Things happen that are well out of our control and sometimes you can't recover from them.
However, I don't want to sound like a motivational poster, but minus unforseen and uncontrollable incidents, you are in control of what levels of success you achieve. Unfortunatley the decisions you make that lead you to success are not always labeled and usually the alternative is attractive in it has instant gratification. |
Oh really?
So people aren't limited by their own abilities or lack thereof? You'd say that someone with an IQ of 70 can be a succesful astrophysicist if they just try a little harder? |
I feel stupid for having to explain this, but obviously some people don't have the science skills to be an engineer or a doctor, some people don't have the patience to be a teacher, some don't have the physical attibutes to be a pro football player, some people don't have an eye to be a professional photographer... However, I hope everyone can do something that at least keeps them above the poverty line and live a comfortable life (as I said before, you can be successful without being rich!). you find what you are good at and make the best of it??? Do I need to explain that?
Welcome to the internet. If you don't explain every detail people will asuume what they want to assume to make their point...
Just for the record, i don't think the moon is made of cheese. |
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06/12/2008 02:18:42 PM · #119 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Strongly disagree. Dropping out of highschool because smoking weed is more fun, is a choice. Taking crack, meth or heroin the first time is a choice. Not going to college and chasing a career as a grocery store clerk is a choice. Getting pregnant at 16 is a choice. Staying in a comfortable job rather then take a risk is a choice. Taking an easier, lower paying job is a choice. Sure, no one directly comes out and says I want to be poor. However, choices they make lead them there. |
Spoken from what appears to be a position of no experience with actual life......8>)
Having had the experiences of quite a few bad choices, and unfortunate circumstances in the last 35 years, you do NOT necessarily have the convenience and luxury of planning and choosing which direction your life will take.
I've also been the recipient of some wonderful luck, the results of hard work, and some plain old grace in my life, too......and I've got a wonderful wife and daughter to prove that.
I loved the pregnancy analogy.....my wife was on the pill for twenty+ years, she CHOSE not to worry too much about it when she ran out for a week, after all, the docs will tell you 6-12 months is more reasonable an expectation if you want to have a family, and we now have a beautiful daughter......a couple who basically CHOSE to not entertain the idea of having a family.
I was a screwoff in school, so much so that I never graduated, yet I pursued what I wanted to do in the automotive world, even had my own sports car shop for two decades, yet I was deemed a disappointment to my father, the real estate magnate.
My wife was fortunate enough to go back to school after a five year hiatus, but if we'd been tryuing to start a family and not had the financial assistance of her mother, she wouldn't have gone.
Yet the first semester, she won a scholarship that covered the next two years tuition. BUT......she never would have won the scholarship had not Mom paid the tab for the first semester, so yeah......she was capable of putting forth the skill and effort to win the scholarship, but only by the privilege was the door opened initially.
Health insurance? Yeah, we had great insurance when my wife was an electrical engineer......that kinda went out the door when she quit to be a mom......and it cost me over $10K a year as a small business owner, even with the "Deal" I got as a local Chamber of Commerce member. We even flew without anything for about three years between my business closing and my wife getting her job with the state.
And I smoked weed for over 30 years knowing that it doesn't have to lead to flushing my life down the toilet with something like crack......that would never happen to me, I'm smarter than that.......
Be careful what you think and assume.
I'm 53 and signing on the dotted line for a 30 year mortgage on Friday......some kinda thing to be doing at my age, huh?
And I don't really have much of anything lined up for retirement, either.
I very much believe that I am the master of making choices that govern my destiny, and am quite aware that choices that I make affect same......but you're SERIOUSLY mistaken if you think that fate, God's will, luck, or that f*ckin' Murphy dude aren't involved, too.
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06/12/2008 02:49:09 PM · #120 |
| Hell Sounds good guys I'm gona quit work give up my benefits and just say I will let luck decide my future... Hell why work when I can get your guys "not ray he's in Canada" to Pay for my welfare. This actually sounds good now that I think of it. No not really. Let me say why I would never do those things. First I am my responsibility once I reach the age of adulthood. Until that point I am my parents responsibility(ie guardian) Also Using the everyone cannot be rich can be flipped around to say the same about the poor, so lets just consider that to have no point of value. It's simple someone has to pay. right? So we raise the taxes on everyone. The rich then pass the cost down and the poor pay none of it so the middle class falls apart from the over burdened cost they have inherited. So you end up with a Rich and poor class and no middle class. My opinion is train and educate the poor. show them how to improve their situation. That would be money well spent. Don't just give them a free ride. Make them have to work for it. Show them that if you apply yourself you can achieve a better life. No not everyone is going to become wealth, but no one should ever stop trying. |
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06/12/2008 02:54:09 PM · #121 |
Actually you had the choices to make and could have planned things out, but in your own words made quite a few bad choices. You may or may not agree with whether or not that lead to the unfortunate sucumstances. And was it not family that got your wife back into college?
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Strongly disagree. Dropping out of highschool because smoking weed is more fun, is a choice. Taking crack, meth or heroin the first time is a choice. Not going to college and chasing a career as a grocery store clerk is a choice. Getting pregnant at 16 is a choice. Staying in a comfortable job rather then take a risk is a choice. Taking an easier, lower paying job is a choice. Sure, no one directly comes out and says I want to be poor. However, choices they make lead them there. |
Spoken from what appears to be a position of no experience with actual life......8>)
Having had the experiences of quite a few bad choices, and unfortunate circumstances in the last 35 years, you do NOT necessarily have the convenience and luxury of planning and choosing which direction your life will take.
I've also been the recipient of some wonderful luck, the results of hard work, and some plain old grace in my life, too......and I've got a wonderful wife and daughter to prove that.
I loved the pregnancy analogy.....my wife was on the pill for twenty+ years, she CHOSE not to worry too much about it when she ran out for a week, after all, the docs will tell you 6-12 months is more reasonable an expectation if you want to have a family, and we now have a beautiful daughter......a couple who basically CHOSE to not entertain the idea of having a family.
I was a screwoff in school, so much so that I never graduated, yet I pursued what I wanted to do in the automotive world, even had my own sports car shop for two decades, yet I was deemed a disappointment to my father, the real estate magnate.
My wife was fortunate enough to go back to school after a five year hiatus, but if we'd been tryuing to start a family and not had the financial assistance of her mother, she wouldn't have gone.
Yet the first semester, she won a scholarship that covered the next two years tuition. BUT......she never would have won the scholarship had not Mom paid the tab for the first semester, so yeah......she was capable of putting forth the skill and effort to win the scholarship, but only by the privilege was the door opened initially.
Health insurance? Yeah, we had great insurance when my wife was an electrical engineer......that kinda went out the door when she quit to be a mom......and it cost me over $10K a year as a small business owner, even with the "Deal" I got as a local Chamber of Commerce member. We even flew without anything for about three years between my business closing and my wife getting her job with the state.
And I smoked weed for over 30 years knowing that it doesn't have to lead to flushing my life down the toilet with something like crack......that would never happen to me, I'm smarter than that.......
Be careful what you think and assume.
I'm 53 and signing on the dotted line for a 30 year mortgage on Friday......some kinda thing to be doing at my age, huh?
And I don't really have much of anything lined up for retirement, either.
I very much believe that I am the master of making choices that govern my destiny, and am quite aware that choices that I make affect same......but you're SERIOUSLY mistaken if you think that fate, God's will, luck, or that f*ckin' Murphy dude aren't involved, too. |
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06/12/2008 02:55:32 PM · #122 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
[
Sure, no one directly comes out and says I want to be poor. However, choices they make lead them there. |
Would you consider that perhaps there do exist some poor folks who are there through no fault of their own. Yes it is true that slackers abound, but surely you understand that there are some folks who are so busy trying to make ends meet that they don't have the luxury of taking night classes and the like.
I for one lived on the "Other side of the tracks" most of my youth and albeit I did make my way out, others did not and it certainly wasn't for lack of trying... sometimes luck plays as big a factor as personal determination.
Something to consider,
Ray |
Yes, that goes without saying. People get in accidents, people get sick... Things happen that are well out of our control and sometimes you can't recover from them.
However, I don't want to sound like a motivational poster, but minus unforseen and uncontrollable incidents, you are in control of what levels of success you achieve. Unfortunatley the decisions you make that lead you to success are not always labeled and usually the alternative is attractive in it has instant gratification. |
Oh really?
So people aren't limited by their own abilities or lack thereof? You'd say that someone with an IQ of 70 can be a succesful astrophysicist if they just try a little harder? |
I feel stupid for having to explain this, but obviously some people don't have the science skills to be an engineer or a doctor, some people don't have the patience to be a teacher, some don't have the physical attibutes to be a pro football player, some people don't have an eye to be a professional photographer... However, I hope everyone can do something that at least keeps them above the poverty line and live a comfortable life (as I said before, you can be successful without being rich!). you find what you are good at and make the best of it??? Do I need to explain that?
Welcome to the internet. If you don't explain every detail people will asuume what they want to assume to make their point...
Just for the record, i don't think the moon is made of cheese. |
Your "motivational poster" statement that "you are in control of your own success" kind of glosses limitations doesn't it? I know plenty of people who wanted to be something that was simply beyond their capabilities. People who spout crap that suggests "you can be anything you want" are just plain lying. You can't. No one can. |
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06/12/2008 03:25:38 PM · #123 |
Originally posted by coronamv:
Hell Sounds good guys I'm gona quit work give up my benefits and just say I will let luck decide my future... Hell why work when I can get your guys "not ray he's in Canada" to Pay for my welfare. This actually sounds good now that I think of it. No not really. Let me say why I would never do those things. First I am my responsibility once I reach the age of adulthood. Until that point I am my parents responsibility(ie guardian) Also Using the everyone cannot be rich can be flipped around to say the same about the poor, so lets just consider that to have no point of value. It's simple someone has to pay. right? So we raise the taxes on everyone. The rich then pass the cost down and the poor pay none of it so the middle class falls apart from the over burdened cost they have inherited. So you end up with a Rich and poor class and no middle class. My opinion is train and educate the poor. show them how to improve their situation. That would be money well spent. Don't just give them a free ride. Make them have to work for it. Show them that if you apply yourself you can achieve a better life. No not everyone is going to become wealth, but no one should ever stop trying. |
Well, aren't you quite the armchair economist? You should go to Washington D.C. and get the country back on track, with a little hard work, no luck needed, you could set everyone on the right path.
Your success may be partially attributable to your own hard work, but there's a good degree of luck involved too. Too bad you're so busy taking all the credit. |
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06/12/2008 03:30:53 PM · #124 |
Originally posted by coronamv:
So we raise the taxes on everyone. The rich then pass the cost down and the poor pay none of it so the middle class falls apart from the over burdened cost they have inherited. So you end up with a Rich and poor class and no middle class. |
Can you explain why that hasn't happened in Canada, where we've had a welfare state and universal health care all of this century and half of the last? |
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06/12/2008 03:34:53 PM · #125 |
Originally posted by coronamv:
Actually you had the choices to make and could have planned things out, but in your own words made quite a few bad choices. You may or may not agree with whether or not that lead to the unfortunate sucumstances. And was it not family that got your wife back into college? |
Agreed, but as I stated, had not my wife's mother been there for her financially, she would NOT have been able to go back to school, get an engineering degree, and provide us with a better life AND health insurance.
So it's not a case of just "Go back to school and get a better education and a degree.". SOMEONE has to pay the tab.
You seem to think that it's finite; cut and dried.....it's NOT only a question of choices. Circumstances dictate how the choices you make turn out, and where you go from there. I'm not quite sure what makes you think you can plan happenstance......maybe you have a pipeline to the answers of life's direction, but I sure don't.
Oh.....I have no high school diploma, but I CHOSE to educate myself well enough that my spelling and grammar are reasonable. Certainly, horrible spelling and grammar is not an effect of anything but choosing to not have an accurate command of the language, right? Pedantic, but in the same vein as you're telling me that all that befell me, both good and bad is the result of choices. How naive!
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