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05/28/2008 12:47:01 PM · #1 |
Okay, I understand why some of the more accomplished photographers would hesitate to disclose what they are charging for their work, but I'm interested in some really GENERAL figures/packages and what photogs are charging.
Package "A": Show up the day of, shoot the wedding, an hour of shots with the wedding party, shoot the reception.
Package "B": Same as "A", but a thorough off-site shoot of the wedding party before the reception (beach, gardens, etc.).
Package "C": Same as "B", but add a photo shoot of bride, groom and families beforehand, more of a studio type shooot.
For all three: What would be included in the price? Post processing, prints, albums, rights to original images, etc.?
I don't want to know exactly what you charged for your last job, just a general idea of what people are charging for the amount of work put into it, and what deliverables are given at the end. Thanks!
EDIT: I should add that this would be for an "average" wedding, not royalty or local rich folk, just the good ol' middle class wedding.
Message edited by author 2008-05-28 12:48:49. |
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05/28/2008 12:52:03 PM · #2 |
What you charge will vary widely based on wher you are. for instance here in Calgary the average price range is $2000 - $5000 however in smaller towns etc. it's down to $1000 - $3000. what peopel offer vairies just as widely. I would research what photographers in your area are charging and for what services, and then create packages and priceing based on that.
I know that's not quite the answer you were looking for... |
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05/28/2008 01:57:31 PM · #3 |
I dunno what weddings are like where you live, but a location shoot between ceremony and rehearsal doesn't sound like a very good idea. There's simply too much stuff and too little time. As it is, formal shots in the sanctuary (or whatever venue held the ceremony) are usually about the most crazy 45 minutes you could ever hope for.
I know that some places it is customary for the ceremony to be held in the morning and have the reception start in the evening, so it might be more feasible in places like that.
As for what you offer in terms of end product, that's up to you. Selling albums/prints will take more work on your part than simply handing over a disk of images, but you should get more money. Simply handing over a disk of images and a release to print is less work, but if they get crappy prints, that could reflect poorly on your work. In either case, the images given to the client will need to be post processed.
I think you need to do some market research on wedding photographers where you live are charging, decide what market segment you want to target and what products and services you want to offer.
Message edited by author 2008-05-28 13:59:50. |
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05/28/2008 05:12:50 PM · #4 |
What's the price for dinners in your area (as in wedding reception dinners?)
What the magazines and planners go by is an overall budget - 50% of the total wedding cost is for dinner (including gratuity). So if it's $90/plate (some hotels hit that or more) and there's 200 guests (average size around here is about that) then that's $18,000. So the whole wedding budget is $36,000.
Photograghy and videography together are to be 10% of the total budget, or $3600.
Around here the average wedding is more like $25,000 and I rarely see a real videographer. They generally charge $750-1500 ($1100 avg), so a still photog package (in theory) would run $1400. Based on what I've seen most established photogs selling at bridal shows they're trying for $2500ish. I've seen a LOT of activity and interest on sub $2000 packages, but I'm averaging a bit over $2200.
Does that help any? My packages include a studio engagement session, 7 or 8 hours of shooting w/ an assistant, album (20 to 30 side 8x10 to 10x10 generally) and a couple of options (like a signature frame or bigger album, etc).
Most of the profit is in the album. Most of the time is in the shooting, followed by editing (just to cut the images from 900 to 500 to show, WB/CC and get them on the web can run 5 hours). An album takes 3 to 4 hours to design and edit.
What does it cost you to be open/in business (per hour)? Then you need to charge more than that. If a package takes you a total of 25 hours (meet, paperwork, accounting, preview, prep (charge batts, packup, etc) drive time, an assistant, shoot time, drive time, backup, processing, a few phone calls, proofs, create album (perhaps meet for an hour or two to go over images or design), make album, print albumn, assemble album (or similar tasks), deliver product (meetings like this take time, but are fun). You also have time involved in overhead - marketing, bridal shows, web design, making sample prints, etc. And product costs.
So if a wedding takes 25 hours and your costs are an album ($300), some prints ($20), an assistant ($100) - say $450 (gas...) and to pay for your gear, ads, computer, CS3, samples, insurance and if there is any left over Uncle Sam wants his share. If a body lasts 2 years and costs $1200 (you need one for backup)...and glass runs 4 times the body but it lasts longer so maybe $7000 total (some flashes, cards) and they'll last 6 years. Shoot 20 weddings a year your gear cost per wedding is $120, insurance cost per wedding is $30. Industry stats say it can cost $100-200/wedding in advertising to get that wedding, so lets say $150 average. If you get $2000/wedding $850 is gone so far in costs. That leaves $1250. You'll have other costs (web, phone, software, computers, clothing, repairs, etc) but if this is profit Mr Big Govt want's his share, 1/3 for the self employed or about $400.
You get $850 for 25+ hours work. Problem is if you shoot 20 weddings a year that's only $17,000 in income. You'll starve. So you need a day job. If you get a part time job that's great as it leaves you time for the photo biz, but no benefits. Got a full time job then you may be fighting with your boss to get off on the days you have to shoot weddings or do bridal shows, etc. Not being able to show and shoot a wedding cause your day job has you in another city or some emergency situation you can't get away from is not conducive to starting a successful business.
Message edited by author 2008-05-28 17:27:56.
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05/29/2008 04:50:03 PM · #5 |
| Around here it is customary to have the ceremony during the afternoon 2:00 3:30 and to have the reception around 6:00 to 7:30. Giving an average of about 4 hours free time to take photos. Most photographers will do a location shoot sometimes ever 2 or 3 locations. The average price around here really varies from 7/800.00 to as high as 2500.00 |
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05/29/2008 11:57:41 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by scwalsh:
Around here it is customary to have the ceremony during the afternoon 2:00 3:30 and to have the reception around 6:00 to 7:30. Giving an average of about 4 hours free time to take photos. Most photographers will do a location shoot sometimes ever 2 or 3 locations. The average price around here really varies from 7/800.00 to as high as 2500.00 |
4 hours? Check your math please. That may be the plan on paper, but reality says you got 90 minutes max. Seems brides have this idea that the guests won't wait around for dinner while standing at an open bar!
Ceremony, if it starts on time (a 50/50 proposition) takes 30 to 60 minutes (civil vs full catholic, some have music and multiple readers. I had a pastor that knew the couple since they were kids go on for 20 minutes about them- screwed the time schedule all to hell).
Receiving line...15 to 20 minutes. No line? 10 minutes anyway.
Got to get everyone back into the church and into the picture taking mood - they often want to talk and chat and visit and such. 5 minutes easy..often 10. 30 to 50 minutes for altar returns - and we fly thru these really fast. Then a few minutes discussing transportation, unity candles, flowers...things need moved and carried and such. Photog has to pack up anyway.
The 3:00 ceremony start time makes this about 4:30, 4:45 by the time this is done.
Drive to the location, stop while someone smokes (or drinks or pees or fixes the flower girls dress, etc). This can be 20 minutes. Now it's 10 after 5 by the time you start. They want to arrive at the reception and walk in at 6. 20 minute drive so you got maybe 30 minutes. That time flies.
The bride sees 3 and sees 6 and thinks there will be 3 hours of waiting around...WRONG! Make that 3 and 7 and you've got enough time to do what you have to do and not run - you'll still hustle, but not be overly rushed.
I'm looking forward to my June 14 wedding - they're willing and even a bit enthusiastic to do most of the pics BEFORE the ceremony! Not sure how it's gonna be shooting wedding formals at 10AM...but that's the plan! Ceremony at 2, reception begins immediately following so that will be different - just pics with the grandmothers and a few shots of everyone is all we'll be doing after the ceremony. So maybe, just maybe, things will go as intended.
Message edited by author 2008-05-29 23:59:07.
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05/30/2008 12:37:20 PM · #7 |
Geez, thanks everyone for the GREAT information! Others, KEEP IT COMING if you have anything to offer. This is GREAT!
Budgeting for photography as a percentage of the wedding cost is something I should have thought of and didn't... it makes alot of sense. Maybe I need to talk to a few wedding planners.
I was approached about doing a wedding, and someone there at the time offered that they had paid over $3000 for their wedding photography. Certainly as someone just getting into weddings I wouldn't be charging that kid of money, but it got me thinking about doing it part time and seeing how it went from there. If I shot even a few weddings a year it would at least pay for my increasingly expensive bag of SLR equipment... I'll be looking to upgrade to a full frame Nikon whenever one becomes available in between the D300 and D3 price points, and a camera like that is hard to justify if it's not making any money. I'm not sure I'd want to start shooting weddings with a 6MP DX D70s expecting big wedding quality enlargements out of it.
Thanks again for all you've offered! |
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05/30/2008 01:23:21 PM · #8 |
$25,000 - $30,000 for a middle class wedding? what a waste of money. 10 Grand is too much.
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
So the whole wedding budget is $36,000.
Photograghy and videography together are to be 10% of the total budget, or $3600.
Around here the average wedding is more like $25,000 and I rarely see a real videographer. They generally charge $750-1500 ($1100 avg), so a still photog package (in theory) would run $1400. |
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05/30/2008 02:11:59 PM · #9 |
You have a wedding - some churches are free and some charge upwards of $1500.
Dresses...bridal and the bride's maids have to buy theirs, and then you've got gifts to give them. A rehearsal dinner for the bridal party and family.
Assuming no travel you can skip the travvel and hotel costs.
Flowers...you will have flowers, right? Michaels fake ones won't be cheap but I've seen florist bills run $400 to $5,000. $1200 is a ballpark number to work with.
Hair...you ARE having your hair done, right? And the brides maids...you gonna cheap out or pay for their hair too? $250 here. Easy. And some booze and food...
Tuxes - at least the grooms. And gifts.
Limo? Now, just rent a mustang convertible for the day. Just as fun and cheaper, but a limo runs around $800 if you care.
Creche thingy at the chruch, programs to handout, oh and the invitation...postage and return postage runs $0.86 a head plus the stuff so for 200 people that's $130 in postage alone (most will be couples so only one letter).
The big cost is the reception...$40/plate is on the cheaper end of things. 200 x $40 = $8,000. The hope is the guests bring a gift worth in excess of the meal.
200 people at 8/table is 25 tables....25 centerpieces. Place cards, etc.
guestbook.
Cake...$250 is pretty ghetto, $700 is quite nice.
DJ...awful quiet without some music and a master of ceremony. $750 to $1000 around here is pretty average, but you can go from $500 to $2400.
And while I've shot 2 weddings without booze, it's VERY common to have alcohol at weddings.
I have probably forgotten a few things, but it adds up. fast.
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05/30/2008 02:16:53 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by BlueAngel:
Geez, thanks everyone for the GREAT information! Others, KEEP IT COMING if you have anything to offer. This is GREAT!
Budgeting for photography as a percentage of the wedding cost is something I should have thought of and didn't... it makes alot of sense. Maybe I need to talk to a few wedding planners.
I was approached about doing a wedding, and someone there at the time offered that they had paid over $3000 for their wedding photography. Certainly as someone just getting into weddings I wouldn't be charging that kid of money, but it got me thinking about doing it part time and seeing how it went from there. If I shot even a few weddings a year it would at least pay for my increasingly expensive bag of SLR equipment... I'll be looking to upgrade to a full frame Nikon whenever one becomes available in between the D300 and D3 price points, and a camera like that is hard to justify if it's not making any money. I'm not sure I'd want to start shooting weddings with a 6MP DX D70s expecting big wedding quality enlargements out of it.
Thanks again for all you've offered! |
You got all kinds of screwy ideas. Part time costs you MORE than a full timer - you have similar costs - computers, cameras, lenses, insurance, software but fewer weddings to spread those costs over. Second, I've sold exactly 1 print bigger than 11x14 in four years of shooting weddings. And only 2 11x14s! I do have a 24x36 from a 6 mp camera and it looks just fine. Glass matters, flash matters - photography is all about light and most weddings lack it so you need fast glass, preferably with VR/IS lenses and the ability to shoot ISO1600 or better when needed and get 8x10s from that.
Weddings appear to be big money made easily but ask around - there are no redo's on wedding day, no stopping the action to get a pic you missed or change camera settings, etc. You're getting paid to give them images, not excuses. You need to know posing - 1, 2, 30 people - how to do it quickly, make it fun and get it right at the same time.
Shooting a few weddings for money? Then you are STARTING A BUSINESS and all that goes with that - record keeping, licenses, liability, etc. Think it over long and hard.
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06/03/2008 10:59:16 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by BlueAngel:
Okay, I understand why some of the more accomplished photographers would hesitate to disclose what they are charging for their work, but I'm interested in some really GENERAL figures/packages and what photogs are charging.
Package "A": Show up the day of, shoot the wedding, an hour of shots with the wedding party, shoot the reception.
Package "B": Same as "A", but a thorough off-site shoot of the wedding party before the reception (beach, gardens, etc.).
Package "C": Same as "B", but add a photo shoot of bride, groom and families beforehand, more of a studio type shooot.
For all three: What would be included in the price? Post processing, prints, albums, rights to original images, etc.?
I don't want to know exactly what you charged for your last job, just a general idea of what people are charging for the amount of work put into it, and what deliverables are given at the end. Thanks!
EDIT: I should add that this would be for an "average" wedding, not royalty or local rich folk, just the good ol' middle class wedding. |
You may want to look at www.digitalweddingforum.com All of the photographers are wedding photographers and most have been in the business for a while. |
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06/03/2008 11:10:18 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
Originally posted by BlueAngel:
Geez, thanks everyone for the GREAT information! Others, KEEP IT COMING if you have anything to offer. This is GREAT!
Budgeting for photography as a percentage of the wedding cost is something I should have thought of and didn't... it makes alot of sense. Maybe I need to talk to a few wedding planners.
I was approached about doing a wedding, and someone there at the time offered that they had paid over $3000 for their wedding photography. Certainly as someone just getting into weddings I wouldn't be charging that kid of money, but it got me thinking about doing it part time and seeing how it went from there. If I shot even a few weddings a year it would at least pay for my increasingly expensive bag of SLR equipment... I'll be looking to upgrade to a full frame Nikon whenever one becomes available in between the D300 and D3 price points, and a camera like that is hard to justify if it's not making any money. I'm not sure I'd want to start shooting weddings with a 6MP DX D70s expecting big wedding quality enlargements out of it.
Thanks again for all you've offered! |
You got all kinds of screwy ideas. Part time costs you MORE than a full timer - you have similar costs - computers, cameras, lenses, insurance, software but fewer weddings to spread those costs over. Second, I've sold exactly 1 print bigger than 11x14 in four years of shooting weddings. And only 2 11x14s! I do have a 24x36 from a 6 mp camera and it looks just fine. Glass matters, flash matters - photography is all about light and most weddings lack it so you need fast glass, preferably with VR/IS lenses and the ability to shoot ISO1600 or better when needed and get 8x10s from that.
Weddings appear to be big money made easily but ask around - there are no redo's on wedding day, no stopping the action to get a pic you missed or change camera settings, etc. You're getting paid to give them images, not excuses. You need to know posing - 1, 2, 30 people - how to do it quickly, make it fun and get it right at the same time.
Shooting a few weddings for money? Then you are STARTING A BUSINESS and all that goes with that - record keeping, licenses, liability, etc. Think it over long and hard. |
++++++1
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06/03/2008 11:10:50 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by rbryan22:
Originally posted by BlueAngel:
Okay, I understand why some of the more accomplished photographers would hesitate to disclose what they are charging for their work, but I'm interested in some really GENERAL figures/packages and what photogs are charging.
Package "A": Show up the day of, shoot the wedding, an hour of shots with the wedding party, shoot the reception.
Package "B": Same as "A", but a thorough off-site shoot of the wedding party before the reception (beach, gardens, etc.).
Package "C": Same as "B", but add a photo shoot of bride, groom and families beforehand, more of a studio type shooot.
For all three: What would be included in the price? Post processing, prints, albums, rights to original images, etc.?
I don't want to know exactly what you charged for your last job, just a general idea of what people are charging for the amount of work put into it, and what deliverables are given at the end. Thanks!
EDIT: I should add that this would be for an "average" wedding, not royalty or local rich folk, just the good ol' middle class wedding. |
You may want to look at //www.digitalweddingforum.com All of the photographers are wedding photographers and most have been in the business for a while. |
Keep in mind that they also charge a fee to access their website.
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06/04/2008 03:35:10 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by jmlelii:
Originally posted by rbryan22:
[quote=BlueAngel] |
You may want to look at //www.digitalweddingforum.com All of the photographers are wedding photographers and most have been in the business for a while.
Keep in mind that they also charge a fee to access their website. |
That is not True, They have a Start Forum that is Free and there is a lot of valuable information there and many of the pros are Start mentors and offer advice to those just starting out in wedding photography. You only pay if you want to access all of the Pro Sections. I have been a start member for almost a year now and have not paid one penny. I was able to take agvantage of a free 7 day pro trial and will be upgrading my membership soon but you do not have to pay to access the Start Section which would apply in this case.
Message edited by author 2008-06-04 15:45:07. |
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