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05/24/2008 08:45:55 AM · #1 |
Ugh.
My nine year old daughter, in the fourth grade, decided it looked like a few kids from another class were having a lot of fun climbing some trees during recess, so she joined in. We recently moved and this is a new school for her. Unknown to her, tree-climbing is against the rules.
The other kids got their punishment from their teacher, and my daughter spent the rest of recess with head face-down on her desk. She had to keep her arms straight out in front of her, so as not to use them to rest on. After recess, the teacher declared to the entire class that "tomorrow (my daughter) would be spending the entire hour, during recess with her head down, so they could all laugh at her on their way out." This with the added rule that her arms had to be straight out so that she'd be uncomfortable. This sounds to me as if it's rigged to be a sort physical torture.
My daughter told my wife about this, who in turn went to speak to the teacher, who wasn't in at the time, so she spoke to the principal instead. One of the terms she used was 'corporal punishment', which has been against the law here since the early 1970's I think. My daughter's extra day of punishment was cancelled by the principal, who visited the class instead and spoke for ten or fifteen minutes about poor decisions (regarding tree climbing). I think that's just fucking ironic, when compared to the poor decision made by a professional adult to use what I consider corporal punishment.
I suppose the teacher has been 'scolded' by the principal. It's lucky my level-headed wife took care of this, because if I were involved it may have turned ugly. But even my wife was pissed off, which is a rare thing indeed, and alarms me all the more!
The bad hews is, this fourth grade teacher is going to be teaching fifth grade next year, and my daughter might end up in her class again. Also, my six year old might someday end up in her class. I don't know whether to let the whole thing go or not. I'd like to let my daughter just forget about it. She's never been in trouble at school before, so this has been pretty upsetting for her. Also, my wife and I don't do physical punishments, so that was also a new experience for her, though I think being singled out to the class was more upsetting for her than the physical part.
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05/24/2008 08:53:28 AM · #2 |
Speaking as a teacher, that was a pisspoor method of punishment. I can think of 10 or 15 more effective ways to deal with this off the top of my head.
The first being, getting eye level with your daughter and saying, "Honey, we don't climb trees, please don't do that again, okay?"
You child's teacher overreacted to the nth degree. IMO, punishment should never include public humiliation in front of peers. NEVER.
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05/24/2008 08:53:43 AM · #3 |
Not sure if this holds true where you are, But here, If a parent doesn't like a teacher, We can ask the kid be moved to a different class. My kids school has 3 classroom/teachers for each grade level. Not sure what your options are, But a true statement would be to go tell that teacher that you would like your child transfered out of that class. If you let the teacher know that you are not happy with them. Maybe they will do something to change.
Good luck with this one. I would be mighty Pissed if a teacher treated one of my kids that way, At least at their young age. When they are teens Ill rethink the whole issue. lol
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05/24/2008 09:01:14 AM · #4 |
Do you think she will break the rules again?
No, neither do I.
So the punishment worked.. what does that tell you.
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Ugh.
My nine year old daughter, in the fourth grade, decided it looked like a few kids from another class were having a lot of fun climbing some trees during recess, so she joined in. We recently moved and this is a new school for her. Unknown to her, tree-climbing is against the rules.
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05/24/2008 09:06:29 AM · #5 |
Originally posted by Bugzeye:
Not sure if this holds true where you are, But here, If a parent doesn't like a teacher, We can ask the kid be moved to a different class. My kids school has 3 classroom/teachers for each grade level. Not sure what your options are, |
What if you don't like all 3 teachers? |
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05/24/2008 09:06:46 AM · #6 |
I am a teacher in the italian high school and this post reflect some situation that sometimes in the schools exists. there are some things that you must think before choose a decision.
1)i think that the first punition was too much hard probably some hard word could be good
2)sometimes we say tomorrow there will be a very hard punition but that tomorrow often don't exist
3)remember you known your daughter (that i am sure is a beautiful daughter) when she is at home!when our sons are outside the home they sometimes are another peoples(even if your daughter is too much young for being another people)
On the teacher and the family, teaching is a very difficult work. some good result could come only if between the teacher,the family and the boys there is a good personal relationship. i think that the better think is to recover the relationship with the teacher because if the family is absent is wrong for the boys if the family is too much present is wrong for the boys.
(sorry if my english is a bit confused...)
Message edited by author 2008-05-24 09:08:15. |
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05/24/2008 09:12:42 AM · #7 |
What is the world coming to when kids aren't allowed to clime trees? Teachers think they know more than they do. Thats the reason I never liked school.
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05/24/2008 09:15:52 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by Travis99:
What is the world coming to when kids aren't allowed to clime trees? Teachers think they know more than they do. Thats the reason I never liked school. |
probably because you should also learn respect for the rules :) |
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05/24/2008 09:16:47 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by Travis99:
What is the world coming to when kids aren't allowed to clime trees? Teachers think they know more than they do. Thats the reason I never liked school. |
OK, but when one of them kids fall out of the trees and breaks an arm/leg/neck then who will be the ones getting sued by parents bitching that "They shouldn't of let my little angels climb those nasty old trees"..
Probably the same parents who want their kids moved into a different class because they `don't get on with the teacher`.
Probably the same parents who whine about their kids being punished because they `break the rules`..
Damned if you do, damned if you dont..
Message edited by author 2008-05-24 09:18:38. |
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05/24/2008 09:17:16 AM · #10 |
Originally posted by Travis99:
What is the world coming to when kids aren't allowed to clime trees? Teachers think they know more than they do. Thats the reason I never liked school. |
I suspect that rule is to protect the school from having to pay damages should a child fall and get hurt. . . |
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05/24/2008 09:26:56 AM · #11 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
I suppose the teacher has been 'scolded' by the principal. It's lucky my level-headed wife took care of this, because if I were involved it may have turned ugly.
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LOL, not quite sure I get this bit, but you mentioned something about `ironic` earlier on in your rant, but what do you mean by "ugly"..?
This post is priceless..
Message edited by author 2008-05-24 09:27:09. |
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05/24/2008 09:29:58 AM · #12 |
I don't know about other schools, but here (NJ) my son got a concussion when he was in 1st grade by falling off playground equipment. He had to be taken to the hospital. He had to have an MRI. There was no suing. I don't believe it was even an option. I could be wrong about what I sign the beginning of each school year, but I believe it is a waiver for the school in case of accidents.
As for the punishment. Way too harsh! It almost sounds like either a young teacher who loses her temper because she doesn't understand kids or a burned out teacher who just doesn't care anymore. |
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05/24/2008 09:53:35 AM · #13 |
I'm not sure I understand that exactly happened, can we see a reenactment, you know like they do on 48 hours mystery?
Message edited by author 2008-05-24 09:55:39.
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05/24/2008 10:04:22 AM · #14 |
Mark it seems me your attack of the OP is unfounded. On your first reaction to the post, you even copied the part that mentioned the fact that the rule was unknown by the child, and said child was new to the school. OK, you might argue ignorance is no excuse, but lets look at everything the op stated. A) We have a 3erd-4th grade student new to a school, and sees several children involved in a fun activity . B) In elementary school there should be teachers already monitoring all the activity in the playground.
If A) fun, is not being stopped by B), then C) getting involved in the fun is OK.
I agree the teacher was out of bounds. |
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05/24/2008 10:12:13 AM · #15 |
In my opinion, that teacher shouldn't be teaching. Slip, consider something terrifying: if your daughter is going to school in Burlington, she's going to school in the same one-horse town I went to elementary school in thirty-seven years ago. In my entire time in elementary school here in the seventies, that kind of punishment would never have been meted out. There was never an incidence of public humiliation as punishment in any of my classes. And I went to Catholic school.
And the "punishment" is a kind of torture in that it seems to have been designed to cause maximum discomfort -- on a nine year old kid. That teacher's a crackpot. I wouldn't be making any apologies for being completely beside myself with outrage. |
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05/24/2008 10:22:02 AM · #16 |
If you ask me, the teacher needs a good solid kick-in. Dress yourself up as a rubber chicken and wait for him after school then beat the bugger half to death with a sexual aid device, that will give the teacher something humiliating to think about.
That's what I'de do anyway. |
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05/24/2008 10:24:50 AM · #17 |
Originally posted by Louis:
In my opinion, that teacher shouldn't be teaching. Slip, consider something terrifying: if your daughter is going to school in Burlington, she's going to school in the same one-horse town I went to elementary school in thirty-seven years ago. In my entire time in elementary school here in the seventies, that kind of punishment would never have been meted out. There was never an incidence of public humiliation as punishment in any of my classes. And I went to Catholic school.
And the "punishment" is a kind of torture in that it seems to have been designed to cause maximum discomfort -- on a nine year old kid. That teacher's a crackpot. I wouldn't be making any apologies for being completely beside myself with outrage. |
I'll second that. That "punishment" is insane and I cannot believe the teacher hasn't been suspended, at a minimum, while this incident is investigated. Seriously.. Come on, folks, this is literally torture, and it's being meted out against a 9-year old GIRL fa cripesake.
Slippy, channel that outrage and go on a CRUSADE man! This teacher is a whacko!
R. |
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05/24/2008 10:26:39 AM · #18 |
Originally posted by alans_world:
Mark it seems me your attack of the OP is unfounded. On your first reaction to the post, you even copied the part that mentioned the fact that the rule was unknown by the child, and said child was new to the school. OK, you might argue ignorance is no excuse, but lets look at everything the op stated. A) We have a 3erd-4th grade student new to a school, and sees several children involved in a fun activity . B) In elementary school there should be teachers already monitoring all the activity in the playground.
If A) fun, is not being stopped by B), then C) getting involved in the fun is OK.
I agree the teacher was out of bounds. |
"Attack" is quite a strong word and out of place here I feel.
Nobody likes other people punishing or reprimanding our kids, its our duty to protect our children, with that I fully agree, our kids look upto us as their protectors, in an ideal world thats how it should be.
Maybe the reaction from the teacher was slightly hysterical, but theres something here that I feel isn't being told, maybe it got exagerrated a wee bit along the line. I also feel that if this was the case, it would be national news in a country like the USA.. anyone else agree?
However, the one thing we hear all the time these days (and I speak for UK here, but one assumes its a problem throughout the developed western world) is that "kids these days have no respect for grown ups anymore"..
Why is that? surely its obvious, the fact that `grown-ups` are not allowed to chastise children these days, the fact that we wrap up our little bundles of joy up in cotton wool and woe-betide anyone who dares say anything out of line towards them.. We all know that our OWN children are perfect and its the other little fuckers who cause the problems. We are scared of hurting our kids feelings, granted I wouldn't go out of my way to cause upset to any of my children or anyone else's, but if I feel a child, mine or whoevers is stepping out of line, then I am not adverse to putting them straight again.
We are being programmed by TV and the authorities about what is the right way to bring up our children but lets face it, they are not the ones who have to deal with the day-to-day problems we, the normal general public, experience.. The politicians are so far removed from real-life they wouldn't know a kid if it came up and kicked them in their arse (thats ass to you, my American compadres). They dump their children off with Nannies and boarding schools at the first opportunity, then congratulate themselves 18 years later when their kids make it into Oxford University (Harvard, Yale etc). And the child psychologist's? They wax lyrical about how we should talk to them and smacking their legs isnt the answer, but I bet most of them are career women who haven't got time to have their own children.
Nope, the problems all started when we allowed these people to preach to us how to bring up our kids and take away our rights to punish them. I am not talking about strapping them with my belt, but I am not adverse to smacking my kids around the legs once other options haven't worked. When I do it is controlled, I don't go postal on them, veins standing out in my neck with a richtus of hate and anger on my face. It rarely happens, they know when they have pushed the boundaries too far.
So hey, lets face facts that our/your kids are not perfect and if they need to be disciplined then so be it. as long as they are safe, know right from wrong and cower in fear when you come through the door*, then surely punishing kids aint such a bad thing.
What I found amusing was the way the OP posted a nice little pic of his pride and joy skipping along without a care in the world, butter wouldnt melt in her mouth.. So I will do the same here
Beautiful aint she?? trust me, she can be the Devil incarnate when she wants to be..
*just kidding friends!
Message edited by author 2008-05-24 10:29:20. |
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05/24/2008 10:32:36 AM · #19 |
Originally posted by Simms:
"Attack" is quite a strong word and out of place here I feel.
Nobody likes other people punishing or reprimanding our kids, its our duty to protect our children, with that I fully agree, our kids look upto us as their protectors, in an ideal world thats how it should be...... etc etc |
Simms, I hear what you are saying and I agree with a lot of it. I spent 4 years in a British boarding school (Ecole Internationale de Geneve) and corporal punishment was the norm there; misbehavior would get you a smack on the knuckles with a ruler, and even occasionaly a caning (or so I was told, I never saw one). I never saw any HINT that this CP was abused, and the student body, as a whole, was respectful and well-behaved. Of course, this was 50 years ago, the world is different now, but I thinkt hat's your point...
But even SO, what happened here is absurd. I don't care what the kid did, I don't care what parts are missing from the story: that was TORTURE and it is absolutely unacceptable.
R. |
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05/24/2008 10:34:05 AM · #20 |
Originally posted by Simms:
So hey, lets face facts that our/your kids are not perfect and if they need to be disciplined then so be it. as long as they are safe, know right from wrong and cower in fear when you come through the door [joke acknowledged], then surely punishing kids aint such a bad thing. |
Sorry, but in my view your post puts you even further against the fringe. Also, you have muddied the issue here by explaining your unusual opinion of this event in terms of a generalized pattern of neglectful detached parenting in society at large. That's a dishonest reading of what happened: little girl climbed tree with other children; little girl had never been told tree-climbing was against the rules; little girl is selected by teacher for an especially humiliating and painful punishment. |
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05/24/2008 10:35:53 AM · #21 |
Originally posted by karmat:
Speaking as a teacher, that was a pisspoor method of punishment. I can think of 10 or 15 more effective ways to deal with this off the top of my head.
The first being, getting eye level with your daughter and saying, "Honey, we don't climb trees, please don't do that again, okay?"
You child's teacher overreacted to the nth degree. IMO, punishment should never include public humiliation in front of peers. NEVER. |
I agree wholeheartedly. That was uncalled for. As far as the form of punishment goes, I agree that she should have just reprimanded her, especially if she had never been in trouble before. A simple, "We don't climb trees because we could fall and get hurt badly. If I catch you doing it again, there will be punishment." would have worked.
UGH!
And to the person who hated school... it's spelled climb. |
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05/24/2008 10:45:08 AM · #22 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Sorry, but in my view your post puts you even further against the fringe. Also, you have muddied the issue here by explaining your unusual opinion of this event in terms of a generalized pattern of neglectful detached parenting in society at large. That's a dishonest reading of what happened: little girl climbed tree with other children; little girl had never been told tree-climbing was against the rules; little girl is selected by teacher for an especially humiliating and painful punishment. |
We was told that was all she did.
We was told that was the punishment.
I am not saying Slippy is lying, god forbid, but maybe in his anger things have been left out, or exaggerated.
I wholeheartedly agree that if that punishment was dished out then it was WAY out of line. However, I am asking you, in a country like the USA, that sort of punishment for THAT kind of misdeamenaor would attract a LOT of attention, especially when the principle hasnt taken any action against the teacher.. Trust me, Oprah would soak that kind of story up and be throwing an open chequebook at Slippy and his little girl to hear the story..
I just feel something has been... left out.. or added in..
By all means let Slippy come back and tell me it is all 100% correct with no added artificial colours, preservatives or sweeteners. If so, I will accept the whole thing is completely out of line and would advise him to take this a lot further. I am big enough to admit when I am wrong.
which is pretty much never.. hahahahaha
Message edited by author 2008-05-24 10:48:40. |
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05/24/2008 10:49:52 AM · #23 |
| Wait, doesn't Slippy live in Canada??? |
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05/24/2008 10:51:02 AM · #24 |
Arrrrrr... when I were a lad we had real corporal punishment. Canes, wooden rulers, spanking bare buttocks (well, it was a Catholic school)
Them were the days.... |
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05/24/2008 10:56:07 AM · #25 |
Originally posted by jhonan:
Arrrrrr... when I were a lad we had real corporal punishment. Canes, wooden rulers, spanking bare buttocks (well, it was a Catholic school)
Them were the days.... |
mha..... I don't remember similar corporal punishment. when I was a boy and I was in the elementary schools I remember that the maximun could be go on the backside of the blackboard (if the blackboard wasn't near the wall) or outside the door for some minute...... |
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