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05/28/2008 08:51:54 AM · #176 |
I was never really spanked as a kid, well once by my grandmother, but I think kids who do get spanked "lightly" as Karmat was saying, you barely touch them and they cry is because their feelings are hurt more than anything else. Just like a toddler who falls or trips and you know they are ok. If you play it off like it "they're ok" then they usually dont cry, but when you say "awww poor baby" and act like it's the end of the world, then they're gonna cry their eyes out for comfort.
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by karmat:
On the rare occasion, I will spank my children. However, there is no pain involved, literally. I can simply touch the back of my daughter's legs, and you would think I have taken a cane to her back. |
Not to put too fine a point on this discussion, but I would think she didn't learn that spankings hurt by never having been spanked. |
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05/28/2008 11:16:21 AM · #177 |
Originally posted by Mick:
Two dozen, compared to hundreds that do not prohibit the use of corporal punishment. I guess that means your statement is irrelevant, eh? |
Ummm... no? We're talking about countries here. Nations of millions of citizens of some of the world's most industrialized and technologically advanced (not to mention socially progressive).
Originally posted by Mick:
Personally, I give more weight to the opinion of someone that has first-hand experience with the issue. I think Simms is right. If you've never had children of your own, then you have no idea what raising children is like. |
Of course I know what raising a child is like. I was a child, with siblings no less. I raised my nephews from the ages of two to five. At any rate, the fact that I have no kids is completely and utterly irrelevant to my opinion that corporal punishment is an offensive wrong that any civilized society should proscribe. Do you have an opinion about climate change? Or NASA's shuttle missions? Or your state's spending habits? If so, how familiar are you with the intimate details of those things, and do you think it's even possible to have an informed opinion?
Originally posted by Mick:
How wonderful for your parents that you were such a well-behaved child. Unfortunately, not all children are the same. |
Thanks for taking my anectode so seriously. Anyway, in an informed way, I completely disagree. Hitting kids is for brutes. Talking is for adults. If one resorts to striking children as a means to disciplining them, talking later in life when you're not allowed or able to hit anymore will fail. Your anectode notwithstanding. |
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05/28/2008 12:08:04 PM · #178 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Of course I know what raising a child is like. I was a child, with siblings no less. |
Seriously Louis, until you have had children that are your own you will NEVER know what it is to be a parent.. Never. And as much as your arguments have been pretty concise and well thought out, that comment above really let you down. shame.
One thing I am interested in, is why you haven't had children.. a concious decision, not met the right person, gay, not able, worried they might grow up looking like little Steven Segals (JOKE...) just interested in why you have such an opinion about bringing children up but have never (really) done so yourself. I know it personal but I am intrigued..
Message edited by author 2008-05-28 12:10:36. |
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05/28/2008 12:37:59 PM · #179 |
 togtog, thanks for sharing your story. I'm sure that's not easy at all to rehash.
Sometimes I wonder how many repeats of your story (and even instances of overbearing corporal punishment) we could prevent if we just had better student teacher ratios in all schools. The book reading teacher you had just sounds very uncaring and sad, but imagine what teachers like your 5th grade teacher could do to help if she was working with half the number of students or if she had people to assist her. So many people suggest we should pay teachers more to attract more talented teachers. I think teacher pay is good enough, there just need to be more teachers and particularly more teachers and para-pros who can work with children with disabilities.
My school may be an exception to the rule, we have normal classes of about 30 students, but when students have a disability here they also have para-pros who are there in the classroom with the sole duty to assist the child they're assigned to. Yes, it's very expensive, but it probably changes those kids lives too, and it's better for the whole class since everyone, disability or not, manages to get on the same page. It's not all rosy here, but overall I think we've moved in the right direction. I'm just sorry there are so many people like you who have had to live with the consequences of schools not having a real plan for all students.
All of this relates to the OP since better student teacher ratios would mean less stressed out/giving up/book reading teachers who can't manage their classes.
(I know, that's a shoehorn :P) |
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05/28/2008 12:39:48 PM · #180 |
I have had friends who have gone from dating, to married, to expecting, to being parents, and in many cases the transformation is unbeliable. However I have also known people who brush it off as no big deal. Typically, the former group of parents end up getting great kids, the latter parents end up having their lives run by little hell raisers.
The main difference is one group cares about the outcome, the other I have no idea what they were thinking.
For the former group, there is no way a non-parent, or even a parent from the latter group, can even remotely understand or predict the amount of emotion that becomes invested in their children, they really do become the only thing that matters, the only thing that exists.
So I think I understand how parents must feel, when things seem to be turning out wrong. |
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05/28/2008 01:24:53 PM · #181 |
Originally posted by Simms:
Seriously Louis, until you have had children that are your own you will NEVER know what it is to be a parent.. Never. And as much as your arguments have been pretty concise and well thought out, that comment above really let you down. shame. |
Well, that comment was supposed to be kind of tongue in cheek. Or smart-ass, depending on how you look at it. ;-)
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05/28/2008 01:37:06 PM · #182 |
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05/28/2008 01:42:12 PM · #183 |
I agree totally. That story is just scary.
The sad thing is, doing that same kind of activity, but requiring the students to tell what they like or what is good about the student in the "hot seat" also stops a lot of negative behavior and builds good will, as well.
:( |
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05/28/2008 01:43:18 PM · #184 |
Lol, I posted that in this thread back on 05/26/2008 03:42:23 PM
Only got a few comments in humor though, maybe you will have better luck. :)
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05/28/2008 02:44:47 PM · #185 |
Togtog, it wasn't that you were being intentionally ignored, but that they were already in the middle of a hot debate that took their attention. Now that they've said what they had to say on that, there's a lull in conversation that lets them take time to look at the link :)
But now you can say you've been "Yanko'ed" :) I hope I'm remembering rightly, but Yanko commented (totally in good humour and tongue in cheek) in one thread that he'd already said something and it was ignored until a "more popular" user said it and got all the attention and credit for it. Some adopted it as a term for the common ocurrence :)
Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm being senile again!
/hijack off |
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05/28/2008 02:48:41 PM · #186 |
And now, togtog, you have been officially yanko'ed.
;) |
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05/28/2008 03:00:56 PM · #187 |
Originally posted by BeeCee:
Togtog, it wasn't that you were being intentionally ignored, but that they were already in the middle of a hot debate that took their attention. Now that they've said what they had to say on that, there's a lull in conversation that lets them take time to look at the link :)
But now you can say you've been "Yanko'ed" :) I hope I'm remembering rightly, but Yanko commented (totally in good humour and tongue in cheek) in one thread that he'd already said something and it was ignored until a "more popular" user said it and got all the attention and credit for it. Some adopted it as a term for the common ocurrence :)
Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm being senile again!
/hijack off |
Does that mean I'm "popular"?
Message edited by author 2008-05-28 15:01:17. |
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05/28/2008 03:03:48 PM · #188 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Does that mean I'm "popular"? |
Ummm... sure! :D |
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05/28/2008 03:09:14 PM · #189 |
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05/28/2008 03:16:32 PM · #190 |
Originally posted by karmat:
And now, togtog, you have been officially yanko'ed. |
So THAT'S what that means. :P (And I guess I've just yankoed BeeCee.) |
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05/28/2008 03:20:23 PM · #191 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by karmat:
And now, togtog, you have been officially yanko'ed. |
So THAT'S what that means. :P (And I guess I've just yankoed BeeCee.) |
Nah, not util people start quoting you.
Oops ;¬P |
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05/28/2008 03:27:06 PM · #192 |
Wow, I thought I was having a deja vu experience for a moment.
Originally posted by togtog:
Lol, I posted that in this thread back on 05/26/2008 03:42:23 PM
Only got a few comments in humor though, maybe you will have better luck. :)
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ETA: Agreed, some teachers shouldn't teach indeed and I wouldn't mind being evaluated (even by a shrink as togtog suggested) from time to time to get the bad apples out. It's currently WAY too difficult for districts to get rid of people who have no business working with children.
Message edited by author 2008-05-28 15:31:42. |
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05/28/2008 03:31:28 PM · #193 |
| I think you guys are trying to yanko my chain! |
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05/28/2008 03:32:06 PM · #194 |
Originally posted by togtog:
I think you guys are trying to yanko my chain! |
<---Groans :P |
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05/28/2008 03:49:36 PM · #195 |
OK, great I am glad the discussion has reached a natural conclusion, I think we all know how each other feels about corporal punishment.
OK, next topic.. Abortion & Religion.. should they be banned...
JUST KIDDING!!! |
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05/28/2008 05:13:58 PM · #196 |
I gotta say this story is likely a good example of us only hearing one side of the story. It's still quite possible the teacher was completely out of line, but the media has picked up and hyped certain features. Being "evaluated for Aspberger syndrome" and actually having it are two completely different things. The angle on the stories, as I've seen them, is clearly "Kindergarten teacher picks on handicapped student". The FOX story even goes as far as saying that the child actually has the diagnosis (you'll see this is not true as reported by the original AP story).
EDIT: I believe the original story was now UPI not AP. It also looks like he has been diagnosed...a week after the incident. Perhaps the whole voting off was a good thing so mom would get off her ass and get the kid some help. Something stinks to high heaven here.
Message edited by author 2008-05-28 17:20:41.
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05/28/2008 06:07:26 PM · #197 |
| i disagree, Dr. Achoo. The "angle" is likely what you're suggesting, but the behaviour of that teacher is unacceptable whether or not the child has any diagnoses or not. |
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05/28/2008 06:25:04 PM · #198 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I gotta say this story is likely a good example of us only hearing one side of the story. It's still quite possible the teacher was completely out of line, but the media has picked up and hyped certain features. Being "evaluated for Aspberger syndrome" and actually having it are two completely different things. The angle on the stories, as I've seen them, is clearly "Kindergarten teacher picks on handicapped student". The FOX story even goes as far as saying that the child actually has the diagnosis (you'll see this is not true as reported by the original AP story).
EDIT: I believe the original story was now UPI not AP. It also looks like he has been diagnosed...a week after the incident. Perhaps the whole voting off was a good thing so mom would get off her ass and get the kid some help. Something stinks to high heaven here. |
Regardless of the "angle" no child should be singled out and humiliated that way, disability or not.
Having a diagnosis is a good thing, but in this case, the ends in no way justify the means.
Way to blame the victim, nice move Doc.
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05/28/2008 06:35:54 PM · #199 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I gotta say this story is likely a good example of us only hearing one side of the story. It's still quite possible the teacher was completely out of line, but the media has picked up and hyped certain features. Being "evaluated for Aspberger syndrome" and actually having it are two completely different things. The angle on the stories, as I've seen them, is clearly "Kindergarten teacher picks on handicapped student". The FOX story even goes as far as saying that the child actually has the diagnosis (you'll see this is not true as reported by the original AP story).
EDIT: I believe the original story was now UPI not AP. It also looks like he has been diagnosed...a week after the incident. Perhaps the whole voting off was a good thing so mom would get off her ass and get the kid some help. Something stinks to high heaven here. |
Regardless of the "angle" no child should be singled out and humiliated that way, disability or not.
Having a diagnosis is a good thing, but in this case, the ends in no way justify the means.
Way to blame the victim, nice move Doc. |
Huh? So you're saying Jason is blaming the child for what happened with the teacher? I didn't get that from what he wrote. |
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05/28/2008 06:51:20 PM · #200 |
| WOW! Just when I thought this thread was dead the good Doctor brought it back to life... I'm getting some popcorn now. |
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