Stolen images and watermarks - DPChallenge Forums

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

05/22/2008 04:19:45 PM · #26

I had a lady approach me last week and request permission to use one of my pictures ... but it was TOTALLY different from any request I had ever had or heard of before. She wanted to use the image as "inspiration" for a painting she was drawing. She didn't want to unfairly take advantage of the work I had done in taking the picture, so she requested my permission prior to painting it.

I was delighted that she loved the image and pleasantly surprised that she would take the time to ask permission for what I wouldn't even consider to be "copying". I told her to go right ahead and (as if I truly could put any limitations on it) simply requested that, in return, she show me the painting afterwards. Which she did.

Anyway, there *are* good people in the world who appreciate the efforts of others! :-)

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

05/22/2008 04:29:51 PM · #27

Originally posted by dwterry:

There is a whole school or genre of painting from photos ... some member here asked for volunteers and did it with another member's photo a few years ago -- everyone was happy.

klkitchens

Pentax K-1

Pentax FA 50mm f/1.4 AF

05/22/2008 04:31:21 PM · #28

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by dwterry:
I had a lady approach me last week and request permission to use one of my pictures ... but it was TOTALLY different from any request I had ever had or heard of before. She wanted to use the image as "inspiration" for a painting she was drawing. She didn't want to unfairly take advantage of the work I had done in taking the picture, so she requested my permission prior to painting it.

I was delighted that she loved the image and pleasantly surprised that she would take the time to ask permission for what I wouldn't even consider to be "copying". I told her to go right ahead and (as if I truly could put any limitations on it) simply requested that, in return, she show me the painting afterwards. Which she did.

Anyway, there *are* good people in the world who appreciate the efforts of others! :-)

There is a whole school or genre of painting from photos ... some member here asked for volunteers and did it with another member's photo a few years ago -- everyone was happy.

EXACTLY!

They ASKED for volunteers and people gave permission.

That's the way it should work.

lunensa

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM

05/22/2008 04:38:21 PM · #29

I just want to cry at all of the things said on here. Just to defend myself slightly, I am not a professional photographer. It never even occurred to me that I might be harming another individual. After I became more involved in this site, I figured out how to enjoy them on here. I never saved any pictures again and I deleted the ones I had.

I believe that most people have good intentions, and only want to share the beauty and creativity of digital photography. Being very strict on that, in my opinion, takes away from some of the benefits of digital.

I agree with everyone here. It should be the choice of the artist, and not anyone else's. I will try and remember the ones that I saved, and I will go through and make a formal apology to everyone involved. I am truly sorry, and I hope that I didn't burn any bridges on here, since I would love to be included in this great family one day...

klkitchens

Pentax K-1

Pentax FA 50mm f/1.4 AF

05/22/2008 04:48:42 PM · #30

Originally posted by lunensa:

I apologize that this 30,000 ft discussion managed to hurt your feelings in any way. You are already part of this "family" the moment you signed up.

SO SMILE!

And take pictures

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 55-200mm f/4.0-5.6G ED

05/22/2008 05:07:19 PM · #31

lunensa seems to feel like a criminal by now and is already repenting. Melissa, don't worry and don't get busy deleting images. I think it's great that you like the pictures here so much that you download them to be able to look at them even more.)

klkitchens

Pentax K-1

Pentax FA 50mm f/1.4 AF

05/22/2008 05:08:55 PM · #32

Originally posted by Sam94720:

HawkeyeLonewolf, you argue that saving DPC images on your computer for your personal enjoyment is a criminal act and harmful for the photographer.

You have repeated this claim several times, but yet you haven't explained it... I still fail to see why the photographer should be harmed in any way if their work is appreciated.

( lunensa seems to feel like a criminal by now and is already repenting. Melissa, don't worry and don't get busy deleting images. I think it's great that you like the pictures here so much that you download them to be able to look at them even more.)

Trying reading the thread... I've explained it a couple of times. You're stealing from the photographer's right to control the distribution of their work. It's not free for the stealing.

gwe21

Nikon D300

05/22/2008 05:09:04 PM · #33

Originally posted by dwterry:

OH OH OH! I just remembered something... reading this reminded me.

I was at my local camera shop a few weeks ago and a lady was buying a Canon Rebel. I heard her talking to the salesperson and she explained that SHE was a painter and she was buying the camera so she could "quit stealing other people's photos from the net" to use for her paintings. She went on to explain that she would peruse the net and find photos that she liked, copy/save/download them, have them printed and then use a projector to outline the photo on her canvas.

Anyway, the salesperson looked at her in disbelief... I just shook my head. I do consider THAT crossing the line. I can totally see using a photo as an INSPIRATION because as a photographer we find inspiration everywhere to create our art/photos..etc.. But taking another persons photo and copying it (even with paint) is going a little too far.

05/22/2008 05:19:33 PM · #34

HawkeyeLonewolf, "stealing from the right"? Come on, this just doesn't make any sense.

Saving a photo on your computer allows you to do exactly the same as if you accessed it on a webserver using your browser. You can
- look at it
- show it to others
- print it
- etc.

The only difference with the downloading is that you will still be able to access it
1. when your computer is not connected to the Internet.
2. when the picture has been removed from the server.

yanko

Carl Zeiss 50mm ZE f/1.4 Planar T for Canon

05/22/2008 05:24:17 PM · #35

Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by dwterry:
I had a lady approach me last week and request permission to use one of my pictures ... but it was TOTALLY different from any request I had ever had or heard of before. She wanted to use the image as "inspiration" for a painting she was drawing. She didn't want to unfairly take advantage of the work I had done in taking the picture, so she requested my permission prior to painting it.

I was delighted that she loved the image and pleasantly surprised that she would take the time to ask permission for what I wouldn't even consider to be "copying". I told her to go right ahead and (as if I truly could put any limitations on it) simply requested that, in return, she show me the painting afterwards. Which she did.

Anyway, there *are* good people in the world who appreciate the efforts of others! :-)

There is a whole school or genre of painting from photos ... some member here asked for volunteers and did it with another member's photo a few years ago -- everyone was happy.

EXACTLY!

They ASKED for volunteers and people gave permission.

That's the way it should work.

I agree that's the ideal way but what the General said earlier is true in regards to theft vs copyright infringement. Just to understand your position a little more take this example:

You're browsing the internet for ideas to shoot for the Female Portrait challenge and you come across a person's portfolio with beautiful female portraits. You find that you can pull off some of them and decide on one to recreate so you go ahead and do that without asking the artist's permission. Is that theft? After all you did take something (i.e. their concept) without their permission. Maybe the artist requires it and like you said earlier it's up to the artist to decide how their images are used.

Message edited by author 2008-05-22 17:28:32.

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

05/22/2008 05:39:16 PM · #36

Let's say you've never been to the Grand Canyon, but you're a painter and you'd like to draw it. So you find a few images of it on the Internet, save them to your harddrive, print them out and start painting.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with this. I think it's great. More beauty is created in the world, and no one is harmed in any way.

I think it would be ridiculous to ask the photographers for permission to use their images to find out what the Grand Canyon looks like. It's not like they own it, right?

And seriously, if you want to tightly control what your image is used for, what kind of thoughts people have when they look at your image, what kind of ideas it triggers, then don't upload it to the Internet! (And join the thought police.)

BeeCee

Nikon D40

05/22/2008 05:46:59 PM · #37

Originally posted by Sam94720:

Would you feel the same way if someone downloaded one of your photos that you are selling prints of, copied it to a painting then put those paintings for sale online for hundreds of dollars? So that instead of you selling your original work people were buying his copies for 10 times as much?

It happened with this shot;

The guy didn't even change the name. When Alex contacted him he did remove them and agreed to split profits with him on those already sold. But do you really think that's fair usage?

eta; I found the thread

Message edited by author 2008-05-22 17:58:24.

xianart

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM

05/22/2008 06:19:06 PM · #38

Originally posted by My PAD:

All images on this site are the work and sole copyright property of Christian Stalley.
Please provide a credit and link back to this site, and let me know with a comment, if you're going to use my images online.

this is what is at the top of my PAD. I have a few images that people have used on other sites, and they've always asked and linked. all very civilised.

JMart

Nikon D80

Tamron SP AF 90mm f/2.8 Di for Nikon

05/22/2008 07:01:13 PM · #39

Originally posted by xianart:

Originally posted by My PAD:
All images on this site are the work and sole copyright property of Christian Stalley.
Please provide a credit and link back to this site, and let me know with a comment, if you're going to use my images online.

this is what is at the top of my PAD. I have a few images that people have used on other sites, and they've always asked and linked. all very civilised.

As much as I believe that the current copyright regime is too restrictive, I'm also fairly certain that

HawkeyeLonewolf's characterization of current law is more accurate than most of what has been said here (even "fair use" is very restrictive and 'educational' settings don't allow as much copying as most educators would guess it does).

Because of the strict nature of current copyright law it is important to keep in mind that giving permission to people for use of an artists work is important both to protect the artists rights AND to protect the person using the work (from potential litigation). Countless people around the country have been finding this out the hard way in the past few years as the RIAA in particular has been constantly threatening, litigatig, and winning against regular people for infringing on their members' copyrights. Most defendants, even if they want to fight the RIAA claims, do not have the financial and legal resources to win, so they usually just settle out of court, paying the RIAA hundreds and sometimes thousands of dollars. Granted, this is a different story than copying from DPC, I'm just pointing out that many of these arguments were being made when Napster was around and

HawkeyeLonewolf is accurately telling us the IP arguments that have won so far in the courts (like it or not).

xianart's notice seems very reasonable. Another great tool to help people share your work, if that's what you want, is to publish it under a Creative Commons license. This tells people exactly what rights they have with your works and can be anything from, "you may copy my work so long as you give attribution" to "You may copy my work, alter it, and use it for commercial purposes..." all depending on the license you choose to publish under.