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05/18/2008 01:07:36 AM · #26 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by hihosilver:
I've never had an problems with purple. But, I love nothing more than to over process all my colors anyways...::sheepish grin:: |
I knew there was a reason I liked you... |
Gosh...does this mean I'll have to upgrade to the Canon family now to capture purple this fabulous?!!!
::promptly faints:: |
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05/18/2008 01:17:43 AM · #27 |
| that is weird, i have purple walls in my house and i just took a shot and they have come out purple. Mind you I am Canon |
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05/18/2008 01:36:57 AM · #28 |
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05/18/2008 01:43:44 AM · #29 |
Originally posted by hihosilver:
Gosh...does this mean I'll have to upgrade to the Canon family now to capture purple this fabulous?!!! |
Nope, just adjust the colors in software like Jason did. It even works with Nikons. :)
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05/18/2008 06:34:10 AM · #30 |
lol, I am researching this further. It seems to be a common enough problem that I am pretty sure it is not a defect just in this camera. However, it appears to be very specific shades of purple. I seem to have a problem with pure purples, like a purple crayon, like... the  DrAchoo's beautiful purple shot above, when shot off my CRT. It turns mostly blue, with purple/pink in the center.
Would anyone care to take a snapshot of the above image and see if it turns blue?
Anyway I will keep trying to find out about this, seems both Nikon and Canon deny this is a problem with any of their cameras. |
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05/18/2008 08:48:22 AM · #31 |
I just shot it and it is perfect match
Hey, maybe I could win a ribbon that way!!! lol |
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05/18/2008 09:58:00 AM · #32 |
Thank you Juliet :)
What type of monitor do you have and how did you view the result, in cam, photoshop etc. Did you shoot as raw or jpeg. What color mode sRGB or AdobeRGB did you pick. :) The devil is in the details, heeheh...
Originally posted by JulietNN:
I just shot it and it is perfect match
Hey, maybe I could win a ribbon that way!!! lol |
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05/18/2008 10:11:26 AM · #33 |
Here's a sampler of the different purples in my sun room.
At first glance, it did seem to be a tad on the blue side but I think it's pretty close to what I see with my eye-brain.
sRGB JPGs without adjustment - no firmware upgrade yet. Also: shot with 90mm macro FYI.
   
Message edited by author 2008-05-18 10:14:14. |
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05/18/2008 10:16:04 AM · #34 |
UGH THIS IS DRIVING ME NUTS! But thank you also metastate.
First: Blue
Second: Blue
Third: Perfect
Forth: Whoa really blue
I cannot help but think that shooting these off my screen is not helping matters. I did however take photos of a purple truck and that was blue too, but that isn't to say it was not only that exact shade of purple.
Edit:
Just tried a Planters nut can, purple and blue, it turned all blue, I tried a purple keyboard plug, it remained purple but a much lighter pastel shade, I tried a purple image in a magazine, turned blue also.
Message edited by author 2008-05-18 10:22:19. |
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05/18/2008 10:36:21 AM · #35 |
Originally posted by Anti-Martyr:
Originally posted by CarpeLumen:
I looked into it, purple is the weakest color, it carries the least amount of energy. the sensor is a detector of energy from light and so I am guessing that is why purple rarely gets shown on sensors. |
Which is funny, because purple actually carries the MOST energy... It's closer on the electromagnetic spectrum to high energy waves like ultraviolets. Seems more like RED should be the hardest color to reproduce with sensors, since it's the lowest energy :/ |
your right, I was looking at graph and it was not energy but intensity..... violet light is the least intense but how that would relate to this.... I dont know. |
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05/18/2008 10:38:16 AM · #36 |
Originally posted by Mick:
Originally posted by hihosilver:
Gosh...does this mean I'll have to upgrade to the Canon family now to capture purple this fabulous?!!! |
Nope, just adjust the colors in software like Jason did. It even works with Nikons. :) |
::gasp::....really?!!
::gazes guiltily at toes:: Ummmm...Gosh, I never would have thought of that...;-)
And, how did you say you captured this absolutely gorgeous gold?
( DrAchoo...I love that purple for which I'll always be your number one fan!..;-)...)
Seriously, though, I guess I'm just really stupid, but if a camera can capture red and the camera can capture blue...logically shouldn't the camera be able to capture...ummm...purple?! If it's not a problem in the hardware, perhaps it's the lighting or white balance settings? Can the camera be reset to default settings? |
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05/18/2008 10:42:31 AM · #37 |
| I know that would seem to make sense, it records red and blue well. Either the blue is too strong, or the red is too dim, however shooting red the red looks red and bright too. Maybe I will shoot a raw and see how it does in my RAW converter and not photoshop, but I don't have it installed atm. |
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05/18/2008 11:02:16 AM · #38 |
Something else annoying is I've been googling this. I've come across at least 20 reports of the same problem on a range of cameras with various fixes from desaturation to replacement. However where I think progress could be made is being retarded by people assuming it is white balance or a mis-calibrated monitor, and sticking with that even when the person assures them it isn't the reason.
It is obvious it is a real problem, affecting several brands and models over a seven year span. In common seems to be dark deep purples, which is what hits me the worst.
As for trying a different lens I only have the one to try, I'm not sure how that would affect things though since things are purple through the viewfinder, just not in the recorded image.
I know that sensor pixels are grouped by 4, 2 by 2. A red pixel, 2 green, and 1 blue. However this leads to a blocky image, to smooth it the camera or raw software, guesses, the real pixel value, based on the RGGB pixels around each other pixel. It is possible certain purples confuse the conversion. |
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05/18/2008 11:03:30 AM · #39 |
I did some real research instead of just google.... (this was not a jab at ^, I had been googling and finding only weak repeated information.)
after reading some papers I found that while we can capture red and blue, they dont mix like we would think. It is more about capturing ranges of the spectrum. And at the frequencies blue is captured, the pixels have a nice fall off nearing purple. most sensors should be able to capture some to most purple colors, but probably not well, and not accurately. there is a graph in this thesis on page 139 and the chapter (6) from 135+ is all on color and CMOS. very very good read.
I used journal access via scholar.google.com to access this but I dont think it was needed. If you cant see it or it asks for password or for you to log in, just pm me and I will email it too you. know that it is 2mb though.
Doctoral Thesis A Study of CMOS Technologies for Image Sensor by Dr. Ching Chun Wang 2001
Message edited by author 2008-05-18 11:06:04. |
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05/18/2008 11:08:06 AM · #40 |
omg awesome, I downloaded it, that is... a lot of information, I'm pulling an all nighter so I will wait until I wake up to wrap my brain around it. I need to ask though, so in a nutshell, is my purple turning blue more likely normal or disfunction?
Originally posted by CarpeLumen:
I did some real research instead of just google.... (this was not a jab at ^, I had been googling and finding only weak repeated information.)
after reading some papers I found that while we can capture red and blue, they dont mix like we would think. It is more about capturing ranges of the spectrum. And at the frequencies blue is captured, the pixels have a nice fall off nearing purple. most sensors should be able to capture some to most purple colors, but probably not well, and not accurately. there is a graph in this thesis on page 139 and the chapter (6) from 135+ is all on color and CMOS. very very good read.
I used journal access via scholar.google.com to access this but I dont think it was needed. If you cant see it or it asks for password or for you to log in, just pm me and I will email it too you. know that it is 2mb though.
Doctoral Thesis A Study of CMOS Technologies for Image Sensor by Dr. Ching Chun Wang 2001 |
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05/18/2008 11:17:14 AM · #41 |
| as far as I can tell, It is a normal problem with any RGB sensor system at this time. but it should only occur with certain purples, some wavelengths will be picked up better than others. If you think about it, purple is one of the rarest colors though in our world. I think it is just a small small flaw in a very simple very effective system. I know on my 40D, I couldnt get my photos to capture the purple in this flower once. I switched color styles from landscape to faithful and it made a huge amount of difference and was almost spot on. |
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05/18/2008 11:19:24 AM · #42 |
cool, I will hold off on the service call at this time, shoot anything purple in raw, and try to see if I can find a way to resolve it for jpegs. The D300 has a lot of settings but I think all the image ones are defaults, but I could be wrong.
Thanks again everyone for the help and support so far! |
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05/18/2008 11:50:46 AM · #43 |
[thumb]679690[/thumb] this one is RAW no flash
[thumb]679689[/thumb] this one is flash and JPEG
Message edited by author 2008-05-18 11:51:13. |
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05/18/2008 12:52:10 PM · #44 |
I just went out and here are some shots showing progressing to get in camera purple using color styles on the 40D. Notice how poorly it does at first though.
Also it seems to get purple, green accuracy was sacrificed.
Message edited by author 2008-05-18 12:53:13. |
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05/18/2008 01:16:08 PM · #45 |
Purple just fine here.
I think it's about getting the wb right...
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05/18/2008 01:28:42 PM · #46 |
I don't have any out of camera JPGs to compare, as I shoot RAW 12 bit only. However, the app used does affect this quite a bit. I have 5 different renderings of the same RAW image of my daughter at a recent track meet. Taken with D300 and 18-200 VR lens.
This one was opened in Lightroom 1.4, all default settings, cropped, saved as a TIFF, 16 bits/channel sRGB colorspace, then opened in CS3 and saved as a PNG.
This one as opened in Nikon Capture NX, all default settings, cropped, saved as a TIFF, 16 bits/channel sRGB colorspace, then opened in CS3 and saved as a PNG.
This one was opened in Lightroom 1.4, all default settings, cropped, set to 72 dpi, resized, saved as a JPG, 100%, sRGB colorspace.
This one was opened in Nikon Capture NX, all default settings, cropped, set to 72 dpi, resized, saved as a JPG, 100%, sRGB colorspace.
This last one was opened in Nikon Capture NX, adjusted WB to preset for direct sunlight, cropped, set to 72 dpi, resized, saved as a JPG, 100%, sRGB colorspace.
In my opinion, Capture NX does a much better job at default settings in handling the purple of her running jersey. Auto WB is iffy at best, and seeing the difference in the PNGs and the JPGs here with two different programs converting the same raw file is the main reason I shoot in RAW and use Capture NX. Getting the right WB makes a huge difference!
Message edited by author 2008-05-18 13:29:20. |
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05/18/2008 02:05:36 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by hihosilver:
::gasp::....really?!! |
No, I was just kidding. Occasionally, everything here in Oregon turns a bright purple color. And once in a great while everything turns bright yellow. It's a very special place. ;)
Originally posted by hihosilver:
And, how did you say you captured this absolutely gorgeous gold? |
I captured it with Photoshop. I precaptured it with a Canon 10D and a 17-40mm lens. ;)
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05/19/2008 11:43:52 AM · #48 |
I am certain it is very specific conditions that are causing it. I've started noticing everything purple around me and I've been snapping it. Most things remain some degree or shade of purple, altered, but still purple, some things turned strong blue, some purples turned out so identical I wondered if it was the same camera. So it seems really really random. All of the purples seem to suffer from a bit of desaturation, so most become pastels, the deep strong purples of specific shades turn blue.
One thing I did note was that more things look blue on the LCD than in the final image. |
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05/19/2008 11:46:04 AM · #49 |
Originally posted by togtog:
I am certain it is very specific conditions that are causing it. I've started noticing everything purple around me and I've been snapping it. Most things remain some degree or shade of purple, altered, but still purple, some things turned strong blue, some purples turned out so identical I wondered if it was the same camera. So it seems really really random. All of the purples seem to suffer from a bit of desaturation, so most become pastels, the deep strong purples of specific shades turn blue.
One thing I did note was that more things look blue on the LCD than in the final image. |
I'm wondering if the EXIF information comparison between the blue photos and the purple photos would reveal how the settings and lighting effected the color in your shots? Just a thought... |
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05/19/2008 11:51:47 AM · #50 |
Originally posted by hihosilver:
I'm wondering if the EXIF information comparison between the blue photos and the purple photos would reveal how the settings and lighting effected the color in your shots? Just a thought... |
A very good thought, one I didn't have. I did not even think of checking that, might not give a useful result but it is certainly a bright idea! :) thanks! |
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