Getting into wedding photogrpahy with a friend

05/09/2008 08:56:47 AM · #1

I've already done portrait, event, and commercial photography for money. I was always afraid to step into the wedding photography realm. However, my friend, who is also a photographer, has talked me into it. To my knowledge he's never done it either.

We're doing our research. I made up a 9 page wedding contract from a sample wedding contract I found. Etc. Etc.

Anyway, we figure that we need to do the first two weddings for dirt cheap to make sure we can do it and do it right. Tell me if this package sounds reasonable...

$599

2 Photographers
4 Hours of Shooting
Private Online Proofing of Photos
12" x 12" Genuine Leather Photo Book of all Final Images
Private Online Ordering of Additional Prints/Enlargements
Private Online Ordering for Friends and Family

All the other photographers in our area are starting at minimum $2000.

What do you think?

PHOTOKID

05/09/2008 09:09:57 AM · #2

Dont take this the wrong way but I really think you guys are selling yourself short.It may be a decent price for a single to enter the market at, but for both it is very cheap.

There is alot of PP work that goes into a wedding to make the prints. I think what you are offering you both are selling yourselfs short and maybe kicking yourself while sitting at the computer doing the PP work.

Also Remember some people judge quality on pricing as well and it is hard to raise rates once you have established yourself in this industry. Cause when people give your name to others they will say " they did such a great job for us and they only charged" and the next client knows your previous baseline.

Not trying to discourage, just trying to give my thoughts on this matter.

Hope this helps.

Good luck to you and your friend whatever you guys choose.

Message edited by author 2008-05-09 09:10:42.

05/09/2008 09:23:00 AM · #3

Originally posted by Hot_Pixel:

We are going to make it very clear on the website that this is only the rate for the first two weddings and afterward the rates will increase to compete with the market in this area.

I understand the post-processing work involved as I did the PP on my own wedding photos. I know the price is very cheap but at the same time I can't charge a normal fee when I've never done this before, I need practice, and there are no redos. We may raise the rates after the first wedding if it goes well.

Thanks for the insight. What about the shooting time--is that a reasonable amount of time or are people booking photographers longer and longer for weddings? I was thinking about charging for additional time at $150/hr.

Message edited by author 2008-05-09 09:24:23.

Sigma 70-200 /2.8 APO EX DG Macro HSM II

05/09/2008 09:42:57 AM · #4

What's the deal with all these photographers giving away the High-Res DVDs? How do they make money on additional prints/enlargements?

PHOTOKID

05/09/2008 09:44:45 AM · #5

Sounds about right, make sure you state that in the contract as well. Some times the weddings run behind, and they really do not want the photographer running out the door half way through the party.

NVPhoto

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

05/09/2008 09:54:01 AM · #6

I did the same thing last year, i offered cheap weddings because I was just starting.

I think the $600 is good, but youre giving them way too much final product. I would offer them the 2 photogs, all images on a CD (unedited) and maybe 50 or so edited ready for print images, and the online hosting.

Reason being.. people looking for cheap wedding photogs went cheap the entire way with their wedding. You most likely won't get a nice venue, more likely a church and basic reception site or similar. The guests will most likely be a mix of formal and sloppy attire. The couple also just wants you there to document, you probably won't get much if any time alone w/ the couple to really do some photography.

When i did my first 6 for cheap.. a range of $600 to $300w/ 3 cases of beer (he was a brewer), we didn't get any really nice venues, we even got a back of a restaurant. The couple was more interested in partying with their friends after the ceremony than spending an hour w/ the photogs to really get some special shots. There was no real value of photography, more a formality that is part of the process. I felt like a lot of the time I was just spinning my wheels. I was also once rushed through formals because the wedding party wanted to hit the bar.

I would just bang out some cheap ones for a CD and some edited images and move on. Once you have the portfolio w/ some weddings, you can charge what you want and provide any output you want.

I strongly disagree w/ the folks saying that its hard to raise rates. Its very easy.. .you just say no when they want a 30 side album and 10hrs of service for $500. Anyone who values the idea of great wedding photos knows it comes w/ a price. Ive told people who wanted my $1600 pkg for $800 that Im sure a student on Craigslist would love the chance to make that kind of money taking pictures, but I show up w/ $10K in gear and experience actually shooting weddings and doing post production.

Good luck.

Eyesup

Nikon D300

05/09/2008 09:55:55 AM · #7

Originally posted by Hot_Pixel:

Sounds about right, make sure you state that in the contract as well. Some times the weddings run behind, and they really do not want the photographer running out the door half way through the party.

To avoid this I've started charging and doing my packages per segment of the day (ie. pre-ceremony, Ceremony, formals, reception) that way we don't come up against the "times up and you're not done" thing... and if they decide they want me longer they can just add on a segment and know exactly how much extra they'll have to pay.

NVPhoto

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

05/09/2008 09:58:46 AM · #8

as for the high res CD. I gave those away for the cheap weddings. Reason being, they only paid $600 for my service, how much was I going to get in print sales? Also, I didn't want to be responsible for handling an 8x10 print order every three months at $15 a pop. these are cheap experience building weddings. Get them done and behind you.

To prove my point that the cheap weddings don't really buy much in the way of prints. I offered 10 8x10 for FREE on 3 of the first 6 weddings. Not one of them has sent me a request for the prints yet... its been over a year.

Part of my selling point is no time restriction. If you book me for the day you got me for the day.

Message edited by author 2008-05-09 09:59:48.

Camabs

Canon EOS-20D

Canon EF 35mm f/2.0

05/09/2008 10:05:01 AM · #9

I would not hire a photographer for my wedding that charges only 30% of the competition. This would be a clear signal to me that this photographer is inexperienced or does not know what he's doing. I do not want my wedding pictures to be screwed up.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying you'll screw up. I am saying you give the wrong signal.

Here's an alternative: Do two weddings for FREE as an added photographer (no risk for bride and groom) to start your PF. Then charge below competition, but not too much, say 1500-ish.

NVPhoto

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

05/09/2008 10:12:24 AM · #10

Just a counter point of Camabs. People who are looking for a $600 photographer will either be 1. happy its so affordable (because they are strunggling to pay for everything) or 2. think the $2000 folks are crazy to charge that for pictures.

I don't think anyone here would pay for a photographer thats only charging 30% of market value because people here value photography.

The $600 photogs and the $2000 photogs are fishing from different ponds.

05/09/2008 10:14:24 AM · #11

Originally posted by Camabs:

I know there are lots of people looking for budget wedding photographers. I understand where you're coming from on this though. In fact, I'm upfront and honest and I tell people that we are new to wedding photography. However, I also show them the portfolio of images we've taken in other photography fields. I'm sure we'll find ONE couple that's willing to take a risk and after that we should be golden as long as we do a good job.

I'm not just in this for the money; I want to provide a great service and beautiful images. If it turns out I'm not good at weddings I'm gonna stop doing weddings.

05/09/2008 10:16:23 AM · #12

Originally posted by NVPhoto:

Yeah, this makes complete sense. The reason I'm including the photobook is not really for them, it's for us. I want to see a sample of the quality and I want to print an extra as an example for future clients.

I use smugmug so fulfillment isn't an issue. If they don't order anything, no sweat off my back; if they do order something, no sweat off my back.

05/09/2008 10:18:37 AM · #13

I raised the price to $749 and changed the time-frame to 6 hours.

If this one turns out good, the next one will be $1500.

Prof_Fate

05/09/2008 10:25:47 AM · #14

10% of cheap photo buyers have no money to spend, so they'll be fine customers in every way, but profit.
the other 90% are a-holes...well, that may be a bit harsh, but they don't value photography and therefore don't want or see a need/reason to cooperate and no matter what you do they think they paid too much.

A wedding - with the meetings, prep, shooting, initial editing, proofing, etc can take 20 to 25 hours, and if you add in an album it takes more time (depends on how fast, anal etc you are how long it takes. 4 hours give or take is what I do an album in.).

So if you add in a second photog for the shoot, you have 32 hours (8 shoot hours). Don't forget to charge sales tax. And since you're self employed you owe about 1/3 of the profit as income tax. So if we ignore overhead you'll lose $200 of the $600 to the tax man, leaving 16 hours of work (each) for $200.

Out of that $200 you have to advertise, pay for computers, software, cameras and lenses, paper, postage, gas, a place to meet, samples, education, insurance, PPA membership (or magazines, or at least you SHOULD consider these things as they'll make you better and give you a network to draw on).

The standard photography business models that work have taken DECADES to develop. They get tweaked an adjusted (digital changed things alot), but there is a very valid reason they don't change too much - they WORK!.
1/2 or more of your profit on a wedding is in the album. You must sell albums.
Don't give DVDs unless you have too - sell them ONLY with an album purchase for example. Offer a 'cheap' low res CD and a more costly hi res. I offer them at $169 and $395. EASY money - a few minutes to organize and burn the disk and $5 in materials (no cheap ass white cd envelope please. TAP and others sell nice disk holders). Sell parent albums. This week i've sold a hi res disk and a parent album - $700 right there. Parent album is a clone of hte bridal album - 0 labor, just click one button 'print it smaller too'.

How to price yourself? DO market research! Find EVERY wedding phtographer in your area and get a price list - your potential brides will be doing this so you need to do it FIRST. If someone's been shooting weddings successfully for 10 years just copy their prices/packages less 10% or so. Or offer a better/bigger album - don't go nuts in trying to beat them. Don't kill the market you're trying to make a living in by devaluing the price of your work, and everyone else's!