Today, let's talk about the 'evil' miracle plant

05/05/2008 11:16:03 AM · #101

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

If one agrees that there is benefit to keeping MJ illegal, than a logical argument can be made to keep hemp illegal.

What benefit is there in keeping MJ illegal?

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8

05/05/2008 12:15:50 PM · #102

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
If one agrees that there is benefit to keeping MJ illegal, than a logical argument can be made to keep hemp illegal.

What benefit is there in keeping MJ illegal?

Benefit: It is quite likely fewer people smoke MJ when it is illegal than if it were legal.

Con: We are losing some regulatory power and lots of tax revenue.

Those are just off the top of my head. I'm neither a staunch proponent that drugs should be illegal at all costs nor an expert on the matter.

Message edited by author 2008-05-05 12:16:03.

cynthiann

Nikon D810

05/05/2008 12:59:50 PM · #103

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by BeeCee:
I have yet to see one logical reason for industrial hemp to be still illegal.

If one agrees that there is benefit to keeping MJ illegal, than a logical argument can be made to keep hemp illegal.

I personally don't see any logical reason for MJ to be illegal.

Some may argue that it is a 'gateway drug' and that really irks me. It's the schools that are doing that. They teach kids that drugs (all drugs) cause you to think you can fly, to do irreparable damage to your body, to overdose and die, to lose reason, become addicted, etc.

So what happens the first time a kid smokes pot and it's really very tame, very controllable, and they don't have the urge to jump off a building or to go rob someone for more money for more pot, etc. It sure makes it a lot easier for them to believe that the teacher's were over-exaggerating about drugs in general and therefore might try new things... which I did, and fortunately they scared me right from the bat. A lot of kids aren't that lucky.

I think it's insane to make any plant illegal, even if they didn't have any benefits what-so-ever.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

05/05/2008 01:43:27 PM · #104

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Me? I'll choose to quote Elaine Benes when asked why she was dating someone who wore a fur instead of protesting, "Eh...who's got the time?"

-- Response Deleted --

05/05/2008 01:47:13 PM · #105

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
If one agrees that there is benefit to keeping MJ illegal, than a logical argument can be made to keep hemp illegal.

What benefit is there in keeping MJ illegal?

Benefit: It is quite likely fewer people smoke MJ when it is illegal than if it were legal.

Con: We are losing some regulatory power and lots of tax revenue.

Those are just off the top of my head. I'm neither a staunch proponent that drugs should be illegal at all costs nor an expert on the matter.

What was the benefit of Prohibition?

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

05/05/2008 01:53:09 PM · #106

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

What was the benefit of Prohibition?

Sales of Thompson sub-machine guns spiked ...

Message edited by author 2008-05-05 13:55:09.

togtog

Nikon D300

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

05/05/2008 02:03:30 PM · #107

I think hemp should be banned because like it is a gateway to pot and stuff and I know all about pot cause like I was at this bar one time and I got really drunk and I learned how the government uses pot to identify free thinkers and stuff and to cover up like the alien probing and stuff and like on the way home I was probed by like three, maybe five aliens, and I know it was the alcohol that clouded my head cause they all looked humans, that is what the pot does too man, the pot does that too! So no more alcohol for me and I'll never try pot cause then I'll become a free thinker or something and then the aliens will come again. So I just sit looking out my window waiting to see them, they won't catch me off guard again, no way.

05/05/2008 02:11:25 PM · #108

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
If one agrees that there is benefit to keeping MJ illegal, than a logical argument can be made to keep hemp illegal.

What benefit is there in keeping MJ illegal?

Benefit: It is quite likely fewer people smoke MJ when it is illegal than if it were legal.

Con: We are losing some regulatory power and lots of tax revenue.

Those are just off the top of my head. I'm neither a staunch proponent that drugs should be illegal at all costs nor an expert on the matter.

What was the benefit of Prohibition?

Don't know. Was there one? Fewer people drank. Why am I even having this argument? We're talking about hemp. I don't know how I've become the spokesman for Hemp is Evil Coalition. Go read my previous posts.

I'd like to see a show of hands on the thread. Who is seriously irked that hemp is illegal and has never smoked pot?

Message edited by author 2008-05-05 14:12:09.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

05/05/2008 02:14:57 PM · #109

Originally posted by togtog:

... I'll become a free thinker or something and then the aliens will come again. So I just sit looking out my window waiting to see them, they won't catch me off guard again, no way.

That reminds me, RIP Albert Hofmann

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

05/05/2008 02:23:56 PM · #110

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

I'd like to see a show of hands on the thread. Who is seriously irked that hemp is illegal and has never smoked pot?

But if "so many" people have experience with the recreational version, that blows two of the arguments -- that there's no widespread societal interest, and that current attempts at interdiction have any deterrent effect.

It's clear that current policies have negative financial and social effects -- I've yet to hear of any clear benefit other than that accruing to the criminal justice industry: heavy construction, prison guards, and lawyers. A product which could be regulated and taxed is instead made to cost 10-100 times the actual costs of production and distribution -- that money largely going to out-of-country organized crime.

BTW: It is unlikely that fewer people drank during Prohibition, but highly likely that more people died from methanol poisoning and other consequences of illegal production and unregulated distribution.

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

05/05/2008 02:56:19 PM · #111

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I'd like to see a show of hands on the thread. Who is seriously irked that hemp is illegal and has never smoked pot?

But if "so many" people have experience with the recreational version, that blows two of the arguments -- that there's no widespread societal interest, and that current attempts at interdiction have any deterrent effect.

Are you even talking about hemp or MJ? My point, going all the way back to my first post, is that people who are all rabid about the injustice of illegal hemp are likely, in my book, to have an ulterior motive. The benefits of an industrial hemp crop are just too small to garner such passion. That's my whole entire point.

I understand the duplicity of legal alcohol and illegal MJ. It doesn't mean I feel that duplicity needs to be rectified. I just don't care.

LoudDog

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

05/05/2008 02:58:55 PM · #112

If MJ was legalized making it cheaper, more easily available, more socially acceptable and making it legal to grow in your yard, would people smoke more or less?

05/05/2008 03:04:04 PM · #113

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by BeeCee:
I have yet to see one logical reason for industrial hemp to be still illegal.

Hemp that is used in industrial applications could be used to make a THC rich variety and hemp does not have much benefit over other already cultivated crops. We can argue whether you agree or disagree, but you cannot deny that is logical if you accept the premise. (Unless you simply believe that MJ and perhaps other drugs should simply be legalized. If MJ was legal, there's no reason for hemp not to be.) But that's a different argument. If one agrees that there is benefit to keeping MJ illegal, than a logical argument can be made to keep hemp illegal.

So, by the same logic, alcohol should be illegal because you could make it in a still in your backyard.
Home stills are illegal, though alcohol isn't. Here, growing THC rich cannabis is illegal, though commercial hemp isn't. There are regulations in place for any industry, this one isn't any different. Simply because something may not be in the top three money-making crops isn't any reason to say you CAN NOT grow it.

eta; Okay, I haven't done much reading on this one yet, but what about the use of food crops for bio-fuels? Hemp is allegedly more efficient as a fuel.

edit again to add; Several of the sites linked here reference a book called "The Emperor Wears No Clothes". Here is the free text-only version. (I haven't read it yet.)

Message edited by author 2008-05-05 15:18:20.

05/05/2008 03:27:17 PM · #114

Originally posted by BeeCee:

So, by the same logic, alcohol should be illegal because you could make it in a still in your backyard.

Blah blah blah. I understand the double standard. I don't care.

Originally posted by BeeCee:

eta; Okay, I haven't done much reading on this one yet, but what about the use of food crops for bio-fuels? Hemp is allegedly more efficient as a fuel.

It may be over corn because corn really sorta sucks as a biofuel. It's just W who's pushing corn because we grow a lot of it. Switch grass, sugarcane, and algae are far more efficient and without seeing the numbers, I'd guess better alternatives than hemp.

Message edited by author 2008-05-05 15:27:33.

05/05/2008 03:41:58 PM · #115

Jason, I'm puzzled and curious... I get the impression that you feel this is basically a non-issue, that hemp isn't valuable enough to even waste time thinking about, yet you obviously are. Why? :)

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.8D

05/05/2008 03:47:06 PM · #116

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
If one agrees that there is benefit to keeping MJ illegal, than a logical argument can be made to keep hemp illegal.

What benefit is there in keeping MJ illegal?

Benefit: It is quite likely fewer people smoke MJ when it is illegal than if it were legal.

Con: We are losing some regulatory power and lots of tax revenue.

Those are just off the top of my head. I'm neither a staunch proponent that drugs should be illegal at all costs nor an expert on the matter.

What was the benefit of Prohibition?

Don't know. Was there one? Fewer people drank. Why am I even having this argument? We're talking about hemp. I don't know how I've become the spokesman for Hemp is Evil Coalition. Go read my previous posts.

I'd like to see a show of hands on the thread. Who is seriously irked that hemp is illegal and has never smoked pot?

Yes, we are discussing hemp. However, your basis for keeping it illegal is based on the "fact" that hemp can be grown to a higher THC content and should be remain illegal for the same reason MJ is illegal.

Louis

Nikon D800

05/05/2008 03:54:15 PM · #117

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Blah blah blah. I understand the double standard. I don't care.

So why the hell are you bothering with this thread? :-) Makes no sense. It seems to me that you don't care that hemp is illegal in the US, and don't mind that the reason may be its tenuous relationship with marijuana. You care not for the double standard. So why go up one side and down the other of people who do?

05/05/2008 03:54:54 PM · #118

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

I'd like to see a show of hands on the thread. Who is seriously irked that hemp is illegal and has never smoked pot?

I think the reason you won't see many hands is that those of us who HAVE smoked it at some point realise that it's not the great evil it's painted and definitely not a strong enough reason to suppress a potentially viable, and possibly ecologically valuable, product. We're willing to explore the possibilities rather than reacting out of fear.

Message edited by author 2008-05-05 15:56:14.

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.8D

05/05/2008 03:55:44 PM · #119

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by BeeCee:
eta; Okay, I haven't done much reading on this one yet, but what about the use of food crops for bio-fuels? Hemp is allegedly more efficient as a fuel.

It may be over corn because corn really sorta sucks as a biofuel. It's just W who's pushing corn because we grow a lot of it. Switch grass, sugarcane, and algae are far more efficient and without seeing the numbers, I'd guess better alternatives than hemp.

Actually, the process for converting food crops (corn, sugar cane) into ethanol is much easier and efficient than the conversion of cellulose type crops (switchgrass, algae etc) into ethanol since the former are full of fermentable sugar that is easily converted into alcohol.

It's so easy that you can set up a still in your backyard to make ethanol from corn. (It's kinda illegal though.) Try doing that with switchgrass.

Louis

Nikon D800

05/05/2008 03:58:31 PM · #120

Originally posted by BeeCee:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I'd like to see a show of hands on the thread. Who is seriously irked that hemp is illegal and has never smoked pot?

I think the reason you won't see many hands is that those of us who HAVE smoked it at some point realise that it's not the great evil it's painted and definitely not a strong enough reason to suppress a potentially viable, and possibly ecologically valuable, product.

Right. What she said. Last time I smoked pot was more than twenty years ago, and I could count on one hand the amount of times I've done it. And yet, mysteriously, I'm seriously irked by that double standard. I guess hypocrisy and lack of reason just generally get my goat.

05/05/2008 05:29:04 PM · #121

Originally posted by Louis:

Dooesn't there just seem to be more important double standards out there to fight? There's just so many hours in the day.

With that, I'm done with the thread. It's been interesting. I learned a few things from the wiki articles.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

05/05/2008 06:51:44 PM · #122

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by Louis:

Right. What she said. Last time I smoked pot was more than twenty years ago, and I could count on one hand the amount of times I've done it. And yet, mysteriously, I'm seriously irked by that double standard. I guess hypocrisy and lack of reason just generally get my goat.

Dooesn't there just seem to be more important double standards out there to fight? There's just so many hours in the day.

Marijuana policy is responsible for the incarceration of several hundred thousand US citizens. If they are imprisoned for an "irrational double standard" and that doesn't bother you, could explain exactly what level of totalitarian outrage would stimulate you to protest?

Louis

Nikon D800

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.8D

05/05/2008 08:43:55 PM · #123

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

There Doooes, but when something is obviously wrong, you fix it. Or let the powers that be do whatever they want, your choice.

tate

Apple iPhone 15 Pro

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

05/05/2008 09:27:52 PM · #124

LOL! that was pretty funny bro.

Originally posted by togtog:

So I just sit looking out my window waiting to see them, they won't catch me off guard again, no way.