Today, let's talk about the 'evil' miracle plant

05/02/2008 04:41:49 PM · #51

Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:

It is funny Sheila that it is all about interpretation it doesnt affect the stalk or parts of the plant but it does affect the grower or producer so they get you coming and going. To say the least it worked and we are still worse for it not being completely legal. IMHO

Ahh, the wonderful power of big business and their bucks, eh? Not to mention the government's expert use of paranoia as a manipulation tool.... :)

Message edited by author 2008-05-02 16:42:06.

Olympus 7-14mm f/4.0 Zuiko Digital Zoom

05/02/2008 04:46:02 PM · #52

You said it sister!

one2one

Olympus E-5

05/02/2008 04:55:36 PM · #53

Originally posted by BeeCee:

Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
It is funny Sheila that it is all about interpretation it doesnt affect the stalk or parts of the plant but it does affect the grower or producer so they get you coming and going. To say the least it worked and we are still worse for it not being completely legal. IMHO

Ahh, the wonderful power of big business and their bucks, eh? Not to mention the government's expert use of paranoia as a manipulation tool.... :)

Lobbyists play a major part in all these so called government decisions. They put their money where their mouths are and directly into many politician's pockets.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

05/02/2008 04:56:28 PM · #54

Originally posted by Louis:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
The ultimate argument is the question why it isn't some banner crop in the rest of the world if the US is simply being puritanical because it's related to pot.

Are you suggesting it's a question of economics? That's a strange reason to make the cultivation of a particular plant illegal.

Not if you are the DuPonts ...

"Nylon is a generic designation for a family of synthetic polymers known generically as polyamides and first produced on February 28, 1935 by Wallace Carothers at DuPont. Nylon is one of the most common polymers and is technically a synthetic linen."

It's my understanding that the banning of hemp had largely to do with eliminating a major competitor to the newly-emerging synthetic fiber industry. Its association with the recreationally-valuable variety provided suitable cover for this government-sponsored market manipulation, especially since that could be associated with a Mexican-American culture which was becoming better-known throughout the eastern portions of a still-segregated country.

Probably the definitive biography of Cannabis v. in America is The Emperor Wears No Clothes

Message edited by author 2008-05-02 17:04:39.

JMart

Nikon D80

Tamron SP AF 90mm f/2.8 Di for Nikon

05/02/2008 05:19:28 PM · #55

Hemp is clearly one of the irrational side effects of the U.S. "Drug War". One of the most interesting resources I have ever read that illuminates some of the "drug war" insanities is simply called Drug War Facts [//www.drugwarfacts.org/index2.htm].

This collection of information is mostly from US govt. sources and peer reviewed journals and everything is clearly cited so it can be checked if you doubt the veracity of the information.

IMHO U.S. gov't drug policies have harmed society well beyond the ability of the drug culture by creating dangerous black markets and treating drug addiction as a crime rather than a personal/public health issue. And for those that see pot as a gateway drug to more deadly substances, you're right, but it's because we lie to children by lumping pot in with things like cocain, then when many of them experiment in college they find out quickly that they were lied to about the addictive nature of pot and they logically infer that other drugs might not be as bad as they were portrayed either.

The trouble with both the hemp and pot debates is that ignorant prejudices have trumped objective facts and, with all due respect to the OP, the anti-pot/drug war prejedices are destroying an obscene number of lives, so it's a far more important issue to me.

karmat

Apple iPhone 7

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

05/02/2008 05:47:09 PM · #56

Originally posted by JMart:

And for those that see pot as a gateway drug to more deadly substances, you're right, but it's because we lie to children by lumping pot in with things like cocain, then when many of them experiment in college they find out quickly that they were lied to about the addictive nature of pot and they logically infer that other drugs might not be as bad as they were portrayed either.

That's not entirely true either. I know many drug users who started out on pot to get "high." Eventually, that high wasn't high enough so they started looking for other things, even though they were aware of the inherent dangers, and initially said they would "never" do that "other stuff." :(

Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM

05/02/2008 06:04:41 PM · #57

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Probably the definitive biography of Cannabis v. in America is The Emperor Wears No Clothes

Jack Herer rocks! He even has his own strain of MJ named after him!
//www.pinkeyedjim.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/jack_herer_800x600.jpg

Message edited by author 2008-05-02 18:05:05.

SteveJ

Canon EOS-7D

05/02/2008 06:06:59 PM · #58

This is a pointless debate: it was about hemp? Now it is about Cannabis! Hemp is not a drug, the genus is differnt, the whole debate is angled at the Merryoner, not hemp.

Can't people see the difference between the two??

05/02/2008 06:10:46 PM · #59

Originally posted by karmat:

Originally posted by JMart:

And for those that see pot as a gateway drug to more deadly substances, you're right, but it's because we lie to children by lumping pot in with things like cocain, then when many of them experiment in college they find out quickly that they were lied to about the addictive nature of pot and they logically infer that other drugs might not be as bad as they were portrayed either.

That's not entirely true either. I know many drug users who started out on pot to get "high." Eventually, that high wasn't high enough so they started looking for other things, even though they were aware of the inherent dangers, and initially said they would "never" do that "other stuff." :(

But when they're looking for the escape of a high, they're going to find it. Starting with pot doesn't MAKE them go on to harder drugs; the need for a high does. They might just as easily start with alcohol or prescription pills or anything else. Pot doesn't turn them into hardcore users any more than visiting casinos turns most into gambling addicts or your weekend beer drinker into an alcoholic. It's the underlying mental and physical factors that determine the eventual outcome, not the pot.

I imagine there are as many reasons why people move from pot to hard drugs as there are people who do :)

05/02/2008 06:11:36 PM · #60

Originally posted by SteveJ:

We understand that. There are 3 types Cannabis Indica, Cannabis Sativa and Cannabis Hemp.

IMHO it all should be legal.

05/02/2008 06:12:46 PM · #61

Originally posted by SteveJ:

Cannabis IS the genus...

05/02/2008 06:15:28 PM · #62

Originally posted by BeeCee:

Originally posted by SteveJ:
This is a pointless debate: it was about hemp? Now it is about Cannabis! Hemp is not a drug, the genus is differnt, the whole debate is angled at the Merryoner, not hemp.

Can't people see the difference between the two??

Cannabis IS the genus...

"Scientific Classification Of Cannabis
Kingdom: Plantae
Division: Magnoliophyta
Class: Magnoliopsida
Order: Rosales
Family: Cannabaceae
Genus: Cannabis

The cannabis genus is made up of three species, they are Cannabis indica, Cannabis ruderalis, and Cannabis sativa. Cannabis indica and Cannabis sativa can both used to produce marijuana, hashish, and hashish oil.

Cannabis ruderalis is not used to produce marijuana, hashish, or hashish oil by itself. However, ruderalis plants are sometimes crossed with indica and sativa plants that are used to produce these substances.

Although Cannabis indica and Cannabis ruderalis are sometimes classified as subspecies of Cannabis sativa, there are some major differences in these plants that make them worthy of being classified as three totally separate species."

//www.a1b2c3.com/drugs/mjgrow9d.htm

05/02/2008 06:26:01 PM · #63

Whether it's cannabis sativa l. var indica or cannabis indica, which they can't agree on, it's still good old hemp :)

Pentax DA 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 AF

05/02/2008 06:39:52 PM · #64

Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:

"The debate on whether there is more than one species has been intense, for the issue has legal implications. Many laws specifically prohibit only Cannabis sativa. Presumably other species would not be prohibited. However, in the United States, this argument was recently dismissed when tested in a California court. The court upheld the argument that the law's intent is clear, although it may be questionable botanically: under law all Cannabis are regarded alike."

source

Not that it has much bearing on the discussion. I'm just curious about taxonomy because of my college years in environmental science and find it interesting how it's constantly evolving :)

vxpra

Pentax K100D

05/02/2008 08:47:06 PM · #65

Originally posted by bradshaw:

I know your talking about drugs in general but just to make the point when was the last time a pot head caused a car accident.....

My college girlfriends best friend was killed in an auto accident. The a^&*%^$$^% that caused it, had been smoking pot, he hadn't been drinking or taking any other drugs (tox screen showed this as well). He ran a red light doing almost 90. MJ was the cause of the accident, and her friends death- he had no memory of the accident. No one will ever convince me marijuana is a "harmless" drug.

Message edited by author 2008-05-02 20:52:50.

Spork99

OM System OM-1

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

05/02/2008 09:02:31 PM · #66

Originally posted by vxpra:

Originally posted by bradshaw:
I know your talking about drugs in general but just to make the point when was the last time a pot head caused a car accident.....

My college girlfriends best friend was killed in an auto accident. The a^&*%^$$^% that caused it, had been smoking pot, he hadn't been drinking or taking any other drugs (tox screen showed this as well). He ran a red light doing almost 90. MJ was the cause of the accident, and her friends death- he had no memory of the accident. No one will ever convince me marijuana is a "harmless" drug.

Sorry for your pain, but MJ did not cause the accident. The person driving the other car caused the accident. It was his decision to get behind the wheel, MJ didn't make that decision for him. MJ is a plant. Plants don't make decisions.

vxpra

Pentax K100D

Pentax DA 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 AF

05/02/2008 09:09:26 PM · #67

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by vxpra:

Originally posted by bradshaw:
I know your talking about drugs in general but just to make the point when was the last time a pot head caused a car accident.....

My college girlfriends best friend was killed in an auto accident. The a^&*%^$$^% that caused it, had been smoking pot, he hadn't been drinking or taking any other drugs (tox screen showed this as well). He ran a red light doing almost 90. MJ was the cause of the accident, and her friends death- he had no memory of the accident. No one will ever convince me marijuana is a "harmless" drug.

Sorry for your pain, but MJ did not cause the accident. The person driving the other car caused the accident. It was his decision to get behind the wheel, MJ didn't make that decision for him. MJ is a plant. Plants don't make decisions.

I didn't say pot caused the accident. He made the decision to smoke pot, pot impaired his abillity to drive, without pot she wouldn't have died- its that simple.

Spork99

OM System OM-1

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

05/02/2008 09:16:53 PM · #68

Originally posted by vxpra:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by vxpra:

Originally posted by bradshaw:
I know your talking about drugs in general but just to make the point when was the last time a pot head caused a car accident.....

My college girlfriends best friend was killed in an auto accident. The a^&*%^$$^% that caused it, had been smoking pot, he hadn't been drinking or taking any other drugs (tox screen showed this as well). He ran a red light doing almost 90. MJ was the cause of the accident, and her friends death- he had no memory of the accident. No one will ever convince me marijuana is a "harmless" drug.

Sorry for your pain, but MJ did not cause the accident. The person driving the other car caused the accident. It was his decision to get behind the wheel, MJ didn't make that decision for him. MJ is a plant. Plants don't make decisions.

I didn't say pot caused the accident. He made the decision to smoke pot, pot impaired his abillity to drive, without pot she wouldn't have died- its that simple.

No, it's really not that simple. Do you honestly think that without pot, that guy would have been driving sober?

So, again, why isn't alcohol illegal? How many die when drunks drive?

OTC cold medicine can affect your ability to drive, so can talking on the phone, reading a book, reaching for that toy your kid dropped in the backseat.

Davideo

Nikon Coolpix 5700

05/02/2008 09:43:39 PM · #69

Hempfest in Seattle since 1991. This is the first year they are actually making industrial hemp the main point of their politics. Whatever you believe about cannabis and hemp and legal and illegal please don't be so naive as to think that the main focus of groups like this is their concern over agriculture and the economy. Smoking pot is their be all and end all focus.

//hempfest.org/drupal/?q=node/15

tate

Apple iPhone 15 Pro

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

05/02/2008 09:56:47 PM · #70

Maybe. But not the point of me posting this thread.. In fact, that may be at the heart of the problem.

Originally posted by Davideo:

FireBird

05/02/2008 10:02:59 PM · #71

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Based on your arguments, we'd be safer if cars were outlawed.

That's his solution to firearms injuries.

Davideo

Nikon Coolpix 5700

05/02/2008 10:15:17 PM · #72

I think this is the heart of the problem and probably more than anything are Dr. Achoo's main points in his reply(s). There really is not a huge demand in our country or worldwide for hemp to become a major agricultural or industrial product. The main reason that this subject gets rehashed ( oh no did I say hash) is that hemp has been co-opted as a code word or way to side track non-readers into believing it is their issue when in fact , not at all, they simply want legal pot. The train has left the station on what the USA has done in the past and a rational discussion of what to do in the future will likely be better served without industrial hemp as a straw man. Perhaps too many still have had bad experiences with burned out relatives and friends and impaired co-workers and don't want to give in on pot only to have it be a pandoras box. If alcohol is fine why not pot and if pot why not cocaine (smokable or other)or any other form of "recreational" drug.

Enjoyable discussion, lots of good viewpoints.

Big Old Mean David

05/02/2008 10:27:29 PM · #73

Oh, I only want pot? Sorry, left that behind 25 years ago. But I DO like being able to buy hemp clothing and healthy hempseed oil, etc. (which I CAN do legally here, thank goodness).

Davideo

Nikon Coolpix 5700

05/02/2008 10:37:14 PM · #74

I am glad that you can purchase and enjoy those products. My point is that in the USA it seems that the majority of people who go on and on ad nauseum about hemp really don't give 2 shits about the products that you like. Look at the Hempfest Seattle website and you have to be blind to ignore that the real issue for these guys is smoking weed. This is one of the largest annual festivals in the country. Their efforts toward hemp as a product or a crop or the economy is weak to faint.