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04/09/2008 02:01:56 PM · #1 |
I recently asked for C&C on this photo @ another website. A few people asked for the how & why, so I posted a photo from a book, then CLEARLY stated that I was not the owner, that the work came from the photographer's book, that it was a joint effort with another photographer, AND that it was simply my inspiration.
A forum member (who had over 10,000 posts there) responded that posting another person's work was copyright infringement, and that I should post a link instead. I told him that I didn't see how that would be infringement since I'd clearly stated details on the source & said that it wasn't my work... but that I'd change it (forum rules) and then thanked him for letting me know. We were both very friendly & civil, and I'm NOT complaining about anything. :D
All that is to ask "Was it infringement on my part, or was this person incorrect?" I'd hate to be stepping on other's toes, and could use some clarification. Thx!
Billy |
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04/09/2008 02:09:16 PM · #2 |
I've seen people make that claim - but AFAIK you are not violating copyright because you credited the author and are using the work in an editorial or educational way. Now you did do it without permission, but I'm not sure you'd need it.
Tell him sorry, but you consulted with your IP attorney and he sees no problem with it.
As I understand it, IP attorneys are few and far between and don't have time to deal with peons like us.
The more real risk is the more an images is posted around the net the more likely it is to be seperated from it's source/author.
I don't see a problem with what you've done, but I bet 40-50% of the respondents to this thread will have a problem with it, and none will be IP attorneys.
People are strange - I posted in a forum (a yahoo group) and someone took my post, word for word, and posted it in another forum (non-yahoo) and slammed me (and my group). I had not given permission, nor had the admin or Yahoo. While most might not consider a forum post artwork, it is an original creation like any other writing and I was very pissed about this - but 99% of the respondents saw no legal, moral or ethical problem with the 'post theft' issue.
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04/09/2008 02:43:14 PM · #3 |
| Were you at the shoot with the photographer or have a part in the shoot? Did you post process the picture? Or is this a scan from a photographers book? Do you know the photographer? |
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04/09/2008 02:50:18 PM · #4 |
| It isn't copyright infringement, but if its against their forum rules... not much you can do 'bout it. |
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04/09/2008 02:53:01 PM · #5 |
| if thats copyright infringment then i know a bunch of people who would in trouble in the 'post your favorite picture from ther person above you' thread...but only a little trouble cuz theyre only thumbnails ;) |
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04/09/2008 03:13:34 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by SDW:
Were you at the shoot with the photographer or have a part in the shoot? Did you post process the picture? Or is this a scan from a photographers book? Do you know the photographer? |
The thumbnail posted @ top is my photo, taken recently.
The link goes to the inspiring photog's website (and the linked photo appears in a book I purchased).
I have not met the other photographer, or his cohort.
Here is a direct quote of my statement on FM, in italics below , about the inspirational image:
"Anyway, I've found an example of Daniel Lezano's work that is similar (though his is obviously better ). His book "100 Ways to Take Better Portrait Photographs" is one I enjoy, and there is an image near the back (cover?) that is terrificly dark & flare-ish... can't find a link to it right now.
eta - found it! the image below is found on Bjorn Thommassen's website (I believe he partners with Daniel Lezano?) regardless, the link below is NOT mine, but served as inspiration:"
My Source of Inspiration
Just thought my method of showing ownership was pretty clear... but it wouldn't be the first time I was ever wrong! LOL
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04/09/2008 03:16:50 PM · #7 |
I doubt it's infringement since you're using it for essentially "educational" purposes.
BTW, IP Attorneys are not few and far between, I personally know several. |
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04/09/2008 03:17:08 PM · #8 |
If you post an image hosted on the person's website, they have to pay the bandwidth costs for everyone who loads that forum thread, so a link it probably better etiquette. As for if it's copyright infringement, I'm not sure. If you're not claiming it as yours I don't see why it would be, but then I'm not that knowledgeable on the laws :)
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04/09/2008 03:41:49 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
I doubt it's infringement since you're using it for essentially "educational" purposes.
BTW, IP Attorneys are not few and far between, I personally know several. |
I personally know none... |
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04/09/2008 04:21:54 PM · #10 |
If I were you I would quit posting on the other site because they are uptight and not as cool as DPC.
Here is to the DPC turf war.  |
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04/09/2008 04:23:31 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by option:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
I doubt it's infringement since you're using it for essentially "educational" purposes.
BTW, IP Attorneys are not few and far between, I personally know several. |
I personally know none... |
Have you looked for one? |
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04/09/2008 06:01:44 PM · #12 |
| If someone has a copyright statement saying you cannot reproduce digitally etc without permission, then even for editorial purposes don't you need to ask first? |
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04/09/2008 06:04:52 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by rob_smith:
If someone has a copyright statement saying you cannot reproduce digitally etc without permission, then even for editorial purposes don't you need to ask first? |
It would be nice. |
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04/09/2008 06:18:32 PM · #14 |
Posting a link is preferable and safer for a couple of reasons; not only do you avoid the possibility of infringement, you also do not steal bandwidth from them by having them host an image posted on your page. If you copy the file to to host it on your own server, you are in a weaker position to defend any claim of non-infringing (educational/editorial) use only.
You might want to do more research on the doctrine of Fair Use at the US Copyright Office. |
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04/09/2008 06:19:53 PM · #15 |
I like IP Attorneys. I had one for dinner the other night with some favre beans and a nice Chianti.
...oops, did I need permission to say that? |
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04/09/2008 06:23:53 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
I like IP Attorneys. I had one for dinner the other night with some favre beans and a nice Chianti.
...oops, did I need permission to say that? |
Hmmm, gives a new meaning to the old Elvis song "Love Me Tender" -- was that a plea or a recipe? |
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04/09/2008 06:57:00 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
I like IP Attorneys. I had one for dinner the other night with some favre beans and a nice Chianti.
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LOL |
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04/09/2008 07:54:14 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Have you looked for one? |
Doesn't matter. The season is over for this year. |
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04/09/2008 08:56:59 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
I doubt it's infringement since you're using it for essentially "educational" purposes.
BTW, IP Attorneys are not few and far between, I personally know several. |
I'm just going off what I've read in magazines and from other photogs - that attorney's knowledgable in IP matters are not particularly common and generally are of the corporate type not the type to be dealling with "us" people - the general public. It's a matter of demand and pay - not enough of either in most markets for IP issues.
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04/09/2008 09:59:08 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by rossbilly:
All that is to ask "Was it infringement on my part, or was this person incorrect?" I'd hate to be stepping on other's toes, and could use some clarification. Thx! |
It is possible to be in breach through uploading an image like this in several ways.
By making an unauthorised copy, unless you have a good defence or fall within an exception, you are in breach of copyright.
The fair use exceptions are a lot less useful than most people here understand. Think of it in the following contexts. You are not a news reporter or an educator in a traditional sense - that will make it v. hard for you to come within the fair use exceptions, and even if they did apply they might not extend to uploading images to a commercial website like DPC (it runs ads and a paid subsciption service) .
You could also be in breach of other terms and conditions that are associated with the image (eg website terms) that might, say, specify that you are not allowed to use copies of the image elsewhere, or not allowed to hotlink in the way that you have done in this thread (bypassing their front page and any advertising opportunity they are expecting) - though I have not looked into the terms for the site in question here.
If you uploaded an image to a commercial site like DPC and DPC displays them, you potentially put DPC in breach, and you may be in breach of the DPC terms and conditions.
The reality is that it is probably commercially not worthwhile for the rights owner to track you down and spend time or money over a technical breach. DPC has some protection if it responds promptly to a takedown notice. But yes, technically you probably are in breach.
Message edited by author 2008-04-09 22:01:16.
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04/10/2008 11:03:00 AM · #21 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
I've seen people make that claim - but AFAIK you are not violating copyright because you credited the author and are using the work in an editorial or educational way. Now you did do it without permission, but I'm not sure you'd need it.
Tell him sorry, but you consulted with your IP attorney and he sees no problem with it. |
Think about it this way: If you shoot a wedding (or portrait, etc), and the customer takes the proofs, copys them, give you credit, and uses them to "educate" people about their wedding, or write some text to go with the images that is an "editorial", would it be legal?
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