Spain Struggles to Absorb Worst Terrorist Attack

03/18/2004 12:03:57 AM · #151

Originally posted by MadMordegon:

russel, i find it a little hard to believe that you being only 23 and having 2 of your own business's you could find the time to be an expert in politics, as the way you talk would suggest you are an authority on the subject.

An expert I am not, well informed I am. I've been interested in History and politics for, well pretty much for ever. I do tons of reading and I suck up as much news information as I can. I also LISTEN to both sides. I come here and sound probably quite arrogant and definetly a little mean spirited.

Well it's because I keep hearing the same tired crap over and over again.

I might be extremly busy, but I also don't sleep and my work requires me to be in front of my computer ruffly 16-18 hours out of the day.

It is my business experience that I think gives me a big edge over so many in a political debate. I guerentee almost no person arguing with me from left has a clue about running a real business with employee's or what it's like to actualy be managment in a large corporation and ZERO clues about what it's like to start from nothing, break my back for everything, then have some ungratefull 60's leftover tell me I make too much money and I should GIVE more of it to the government.

I started working in software development when I turned 17 (graduated HS 1.5 years early). By the time I turned 18 I had started my own consulting business and was traveling all over the world (thank god for the big bubble). I've worked with and for a few dozen companies from mom & pop to large well know corps and I've helped several internet companies & consultants get their wheels rolling...

When the economy started to roll back down hill (about 6 months BEFORE the presidential elections) I took actions. I didn't cry about my lost money, or how much harder I had to work per buck, I just kept chuging. When things got tough, I started a second business, that has now grown to the largest & highest output shop of it's type in North America.

For a young guy I've seen a lot more than most ever will. I think all of these experiences put me in a unique position.

I'll get off my soap/rant box for a few minutes now :)

Message edited by author 2004-03-18 00:06:18.

MadMordegon

03/18/2004 12:21:57 AM · #152

Originally posted by Russell2566:

I guerentee almost no person arguing with me from left has a clue about running a real business with employee's or what it's like to actualy be managment in a large corporation and ZERO clues about what it's like to start from nothing, break my back for everything, then have some ungratefull 60's leftover tell me I make too much money and I should GIVE more of it to the government.

thats a mighty bold statement. ill just leave it at that.

03/18/2004 12:27:51 AM · #153

Originally posted by MadMordegon:

thats a mighty bold statement. ill just leave it at that.

Well lets challenge my statement... Lets hear from those people that think along the same lines as you do... Prove me wrong with your bio, and while your at it, why is it that I should treat any of your comments like more than dribble from the democratice handbook for the brainwashed? What backs up your statments or comments against mine?

EDIT: Speaking of brainwashed:

Originally posted by pitsaman:

Republican=conservative=industrialist=money loving polluter=religius

Message edited by author 2004-03-18 00:30:49.

03/18/2004 12:27:54 AM · #154

Photographer=artist=nature lover=conservationist=progressive=liberal=Democrat

Republican=conservative=industrialist=money loving polluter=religius=SUV driver

Russell what are you doing here?

Message edited by author 2004-03-18 00:30:43.

03/18/2004 12:35:07 AM · #155

Originally posted by pitsaman:

Photographer = liberal

Not all photographers have to be clueless

Message edited by author 2004-03-18 00:35:26.

03/18/2004 12:35:46 AM · #156

If the conservatives on this site go out more often and take some photos instead of arguing with liberals in RANT they might learn something about photography!

03/18/2004 12:37:52 AM · #157

Originally posted by pitsaman:

If the conservatives on this site go out more often and take some photos instead of arguing with liberals in RANT they might learn something about photography!

Let me run outside and take some pictures at 12:36AM... Oh ya, I also can't take pictures during day time hours, because I'm too busy breaking my back making a living and supporting our bloated government and the leeches that it has created.

Message edited by author 2004-03-18 00:38:20.

03/18/2004 12:39:12 AM · #158

Originally posted by Russell2566:

Originally posted by pitsaman:

I'm too busy breaking my back making a living and supporting our bloated government and the leeches that it has created.

Here we agree 100 %

03/18/2004 12:40:41 AM · #159

Then how the hell can you vote for someone like Kerry or anyone else on the left... You think Bush is bad, HA...

I'm going to bed, 6am comes soon!

03/18/2004 12:42:20 AM · #160

Originally posted by Russell2566:

Then how the hell can you vote for someone like Kerry or anyone else on the left... You think Bush is bad, HA...

I'm going to bed, 6am comes soon!

Bush is much better{for me personally} than Clinton ,and have no problem another 4 years.

03/18/2004 01:07:11 AM · #161

I admire you Russell for all the hard work and passion you've put into your business but I'm not sure why you think you're so unique. There are many people in this country, and the world, who put in many long hard hours into their jobs and businesses. Being in management gives you but one perspective on things. I have known many people who were left leaning who were in management and who were terribly stressed by their jobs that they were very very devoted to. Many people all over the world put their all into their jobs and then in the long run get screwed over by their companies, like the ones that perpertrated the Enron scam.

I have also seen the many people who from the daily grind of their work wind up with health related problems directly attributable to their jobs. Repetative stress injuries are very common and debilitating and for those who end up with these problems they are life long that not only effect their work life, but also their enjoyment of life. One of president Bush's first actions when he took over the WH was to veto a bill that would have given millions of workers rights and safe guards by instituting standards that business would have had to adhere to to prevent these types of injuries. Most of these types of workers come from middle and lower income classes. I"m sure that all of these people have unique and just as valid opinions as you do.

I can also tell you that while you are still young now and have the energy to do all of this, it eventually catches up with you in health problems and missed opportunities to be with family and friends...especially if you're getting no sleep. So because of that many people also opt for a balance in their life and don't work as hard as you, and I respect that as well.

As far as hearing "the same old crap over and over again," I can assure you that it's the same coming from you and the right. From what I can tell from being involved in these political debates it's very hard to prove one side or another, as it's hard to verify truth and what exactly is happening. In addition, no one is an expert at everything and so analysis of what's going on in the world politcally is equally difficult. How you can say in one sentence that you listen to both sides and in another say you're tired of listening to the same old crap is beyond me. There are many different kinds of issues that the left has brought up but the administration has been stonewalling, such as the commissions investigating both 9/11 and the possible wrongful leading us into war by the Bush admin.

I hope I've made some sense in this rant of mine.

Originally posted by Russell2566:

Originally posted by MadMordegon:
russel, i find it a little hard to believe that you being only 23 and having 2 of your own business's you could find the time to be an expert in politics, as the way you talk would suggest you are an authority on the subject.

An expert I am not, well informed I am. I've been interested in History and politics for, well pretty much for ever. I do tons of reading and I suck up as much news information as I can. I also LISTEN to both sides. I come here and sound probably quite arrogant and definetly a little mean spirited.

Well it's because I keep hearing the same tired crap over and over again.

I might be extremly busy, but I also don't sleep and my work requires me to be in front of my computer ruffly 16-18 hours out of the day.

It is my business experience that I think gives me a big edge over so many in a political debate. I guerentee almost no person arguing with me from left has a clue about running a real business with employee's or what it's like to actualy be managment in a large corporation and ZERO clues about what it's like to start from nothing, break my back for everything, then have some ungratefull 60's leftover tell me I make too much money and I should GIVE more of it to the government.

I started working in software development when I turned 17 (graduated HS 1.5 years early). By the time I turned 18 I had started my own consulting business and was traveling all over the world (thank god for the big bubble). I've worked with and for a few dozen companies from mom & pop to large well know corps and I've helped several internet companies & consultants get their wheels rolling...

When the economy started to roll back down hill (about 6 months BEFORE the presidential elections) I took actions. I didn't cry about my lost money, or how much harder I had to work per buck, I just kept chuging. When things got tough, I started a second business, that has now grown to the largest & highest output shop of it's type in North America.

For a young guy I've seen a lot more than most ever will. I think all of these experiences put me in a unique position.

I'll get off my soap/rant box for a few minutes now :)

03/18/2004 01:10:05 AM · #162

Russell, do you really think that Kerry is on the left??? If you do, you're deluded and brainwashed.

Originally posted by Russell2566:

Then how the hell can you vote for someone like Kerry or anyone else on the left... You think Bush is bad, HA...

I'm going to bed, 6am comes soon!

MadMordegon

03/18/2004 01:16:12 AM · #163

Originally posted by Olyuzi:

well said

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8D IF-ED

03/18/2004 07:52:58 AM · #164

Originally posted by Olyuzi:

I admire you Russell for all the hard work and passion you've put into your business but I'm not sure why you think you're so unique.

I only ment to infer that I thought I was unique compared to the people arguing with me on this board, nothing else. I work with dozens of people just like me every day or even harder working!

Originally posted by Olyuzi:

I can also tell you that while you are still young now and have the energy to do all of this, it eventually catches up with you in health problems and missed opportunities to be with family and friends...especially if you're getting no sleep.

I'm working that hard now, so I can slow down when I do have a family. ie, I'm getting married this fall and hope to have kids in a few years.

Originally posted by Olyuzi:

As far as hearing "the same old crap over and over again," I can assure you that it's the same coming from you and the right.

I was just explaining that I've heard it before and I've lookined into it and investigated "it". My findings just show that so much of the rheteric is BS. I guess what REALLY hurts most arguments from the left are the large number of baseless claimes always thrown in that sound so stupid to anyone who really knows anything about the situation

Originally posted by Olyuzi:

Russell, do you really think that Kerry is on the left??? If you do, you're deluded and brainwashed.

Well he isn't right and he's not in the middle, so what is he. Is there another direction I'm not aware of?

Message edited by author 2004-03-18 07:53:41.

Flash

Nikon D700

03/18/2004 08:33:23 AM · #165

Originally posted by Olyuzi:

Russell, do you really think that Kerry is on the left??? [

:)

Olyuzi,

This statement was a surprise. Perhaps its intent was satire. Unfortunately I cannot link to the source, however my understanding is that Senator Kerry has one of the most Liberal, Left Leaning voting records in the Senate. Even Left of Senator Kennedy. That is not in itself bad, for his constituents, he is serving them well. It is just a stretch, in my opinion, to question where he stands in relation to ideology.

I enjoy your posts. The recent reply to russell was most civil.

Regards,

Flash

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

03/18/2004 10:13:11 AM · #166

Originally posted by Russell2566:

Originally posted by Olyuzi:
Russell, do you really think that Kerry is on the left??? If you do, you're deluded and brainwashed.

Well he isn't right and he's not in the middle, so what is he. Is there another direction I'm not aware of?

Forwards? Upwards? Left/right seems so one-dimensional, maybe we can broaden our outlook.

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8D IF-ED

03/18/2004 10:43:22 AM · #167

Hey Flash,
I don't believe that someone who has taken so much money from special interests can be truly "left-leaning." That isn't to say that he's not more left than Bush, but it's a relative term. Politicians say many things during elections and when they get voted into office then they do other things. When Clinton campaigned in '92 he promised national health care insurance, but when push came to shove he pushed harder to get NAFTA passed through congress than the health care bill that was being touted by Hillary.

In the upcoming election I will most likely vote for Kerry, but in no way is that saying that he is a great candidate, but just that I'm in the ABB (anybody but Bush) camp and he is the lesser of the two evils.
When a politician/candidate takes so much money from special interests and the corporate world he's got to pay them back in some way, and that translates for me into pushing through legislation that is beneficial for his corporate underwriters. As far as left-leaning candidiates go I would say that Ralph Nadar fits more in that catagory, but I doubt that I would vote for him because I don't want him to serve as spoiler.

I have enjoyed your posts as well and would like to hear more about what you think.
Olyuz

Originally posted by Flash:

Originally posted by Olyuzi:
Russell, do you really think that Kerry is on the left??? [

:)

Olyuzi,

This statement was a surprise. Perhaps its intent was satire. Unfortunately I cannot link to the source, however my understanding is that Senator Kerry has one of the most Liberal, Left Leaning voting records in the Senate. Even Left of Senator Kennedy. That is not in itself bad, for his constituents, he is serving them well. It is just a stretch, in my opinion, to question where he stands in relation to ideology.

I enjoy your posts. The recent reply to russell was most civil.

Regards,

Flash

Flash

Nikon D700

03/18/2004 11:48:42 AM · #168

Olyuzi,

I understand the ABB point of view as I also understood the the "anybody but Clintonites". I personally have never been a great fan of the Bush's. Lots of reasons, but mainly it has always been a "truth" issue. Bush 1 coulndn't have bought my vote. I think I was one of 2 people in Michigan that voted for Andre Moreau, the year Clinton won.

I tend to be pro-choice. But that means pro-choice on everything. Women's rights, gun rights, religious rights, pledge of alligience rights, 10 comandments rights, helmet law rights, seatbelt rights, school voucher rights and the list goes on. At the same time, I feel strongly that as one chooses, along with that choice comes individual accountability and responsibility. A responsibility to be informed about the choices one makes and accountability for the actions associated with those choices. If a person chooses to ride a motorcyle without a helmet, then they should not be able to sue for head injuries sustained in an accident. Their choice, their accountability. This rational is applicable to a host of other "choices" as well.

Regarding this upcoming election......I have no idea what my decision will be come November. Presently, the most important factor for me is supporting the troops. I believe that we cannot withdraw. Regardless of how we ended up where we are, we simply cannot repeat the decisions of 69-73. The decision from Spain is in my judgement, the wrong decision. I say that as one who used to believe, promote, and "fight" for the end of the Viet Nam war. In hind sight, a dis-service was done to those who were dying overseas. Our Congress was waffling and trying to walk a tightrope between accomplishing the objective and getting re-elected. The result was thousands more lives lost, due specifically to the voice from the street. The Wall, in DC is a humbling sight. It is a pilgrimage that I believe places into perspectve the human cost of 1. War, and 2. an uncommited Congress. Seeing the quantity of names on that wall is disturbing.

I believe that no matter what we do, internationally, with or without allies, that al-Qaeda cells will continue to "attack" us. I believe it is basic to their belief that the "infidels" must be "cleansed" from the earth. I believe that nothing will stop them from this pursuit, except their total elimination. That of course, will not happen. As one cell is eliminated, another takes up arms. This is as old as history itself. Therefore, if a terrorist war is what we have, then the ONLY chance we have of survival, is a committed assault against the very entity that threatens our existence. Wherever, they may be.

I personally have respect for Colin Powell and Condeleeza Rice. I think that some of the positions that they have been put into, is rediculous. I also applaud Christy Whittman for leaving a Whitehouse Cabinet that wouldn't walk like they talked. On the other side, I see some Senators that just send my skin crawling when they espouse a doctrine that is so against my positions on "choice".

So this year, with the terrorists certain to continue their assault throughout the world, I believe we need to be willing to accept the casualities of war and resolutely take to al-Qaeda, the full force of our resources. Either in concert with allies or without them. What I fear most, is a repeat of the poor Congressional choices from another era, that will cost us more soldiers and ultimately more names on a Wall. When Kerry speaks of withdrawl and aligning with Spain, that doesn't sit well with me, even though I may like him. When Bush talks about using the full force against terrorism, I agree that it is the only choice, even though I don't like him.

Regards,

Flash

03/18/2004 11:55:27 AM · #169

All polititians take special interest money, ALL OF THEM. I however feel much safer and better about Bush doing some favors for so called "big-business" than I do Kerry, Clintons or Nader doing favors for extreme left wing groups that are not even big enough to be called a minority (I would feel the same if it were the right side as well).

Kerry has never worked an honest day in his live save from College. He married a rich french women who gives millions of dollars to groups that fund extreme islamo groups that want to kill Americans.

BTW: To throw a monkey wrench of common sense into a political debate. If Bush does a few favors or at least votes in favor of the business world, that means they make/net more money. This means more jobs better economy and everything that comes in tow.

Tell me what do we get from the extremist groups that support the likes of Kerry, Gore & Dean??? Nothing but a socialist agenda that doesn't work and strangles oupr country!!!

Also, as a foot note: Clinton was a supporter of big business, WAY more tha Bush is, so I can't help but laugh at this acusation of corruption from Clinton supporters.

Message edited by author 2004-03-18 11:56:59.

MadMordegon

03/18/2004 12:15:41 PM · #170

i thought this belonged here as well.

Originally posted by MadMordegon:

just saw this video and thought i should share.

proof? deception?

03/18/2004 12:39:28 PM · #171

I too believe in supporting the troops over in Iraq fully, but I'm not so sure the Bush administration does. They have skimped on basic gear for the women and men there, such as bullet proof vests and they are refusing to pay them any overtime. They are also being denied leaves when their time has come and refusing to allow soldiers who have served their time and are ready to retire to leave the service. Who is fighting over there?...the poor and minorities, for the most part. The only way to support our troops fully is to withdraw. What are they dying there for anyway? They have a high rate of suicide and they themselves are most disenchanted with the realities they face and what they've been told.

What does the war in Iraq have to do with fighting al Quaeda, anyway? I"m not sure that a "war" against terrorism will weaken the cells all that much, but make them more resolute to fight the west and it's ideals. There are other ways of defusing the situation in the middle east...one example may be to have a better resolution to the Palestinian problem in Israel. Another may be to start switching over more quickly to alternative fuel sources and not being so dependent on oil.

Bush announced some time back that the war there was over but we still have women and men dying there. With more and more coalition members withdrawing, we will have an even more difficult plight there and it will also suck up the resources of our country. The troops that will be returning to the US, when they do come back, will face many problems and since the Viet Nam vets came back, they have been treated poorly by the gov't, doesn't matter who was in power. I'm sure that will continue to be the case.

I too believe in accountibility and responsibility...but that needs to be applied as well to the corporations and those who are pursuing less than honest dealings...such as the Enron executives. The money they stole will undoubtedly not be returned to their respective owners. Corporate welfare is alive and kicking in the US and I don't attribute that just to the Bushs...although they have their own business dealings that need to come out in the open more...such as that with the Saudis.
The gov't "goes to bat" for big business alot more than it does for the common hard working woman/man.

Originally posted by Flash:

03/18/2004 12:50:34 PM · #172

Could you be more specific Russell about the "extreme islamo groups who want to kill Americans?" (edit: who support Kerry, Gore and Dean, as you've stated below) Who are they? Can you name them? Can you post a web site where I can read more about them?

Yes, Clinton was a big business supporter...But right now, Bush has a lot more money contributed to his campaign from big business than does Kerry...by about 100 million.

And I believe in an earlier posting of yours, maybe on another thread, that you said you were worried more about the environment...but I don't think you could call Bush an environmental candidate.

Trickle down economics benefits the poor and middle classes very marginally. It benefits the rich and executives alot alot more.

Originally posted by Russell2566:

Message edited by author 2004-03-18 12:54:47.

kaycee

Olympus C-750UZ

03/18/2004 01:26:07 PM · #173

Well, I'm not Russell, but how 'bout this one:

Scary