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03/20/2008 02:41:49 PM · #76 |
So, Wright has been officially dismissed from the campaign. Correct?
My understanding was that he had been, but in reading this thread, I became unsure.
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03/20/2008 02:45:20 PM · #77 |
| He is no longer on staff for Obama. |
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03/20/2008 03:31:48 PM · #78 |
Being a white man, and not a church goer my opinion may be a little different, but if I were in church and the pastor said god &$@! America or blamed problems on a particular race or said I should not trust people of another race, I get up and walk out, then I don't come back to that church. And, you can replace church with "friend's house" "restaurant" "store" "dry cleaners" "bar" or pretty much any other place I do go.
I don't continue to go there for 20 years, I don't let them baptize my kids and I don't let them perform my wedding ceremony.
But I'm not trying to be president of the country and I'm not trying to be a uniter or people. Maybe I'm just different?
Yeah, it was a great speach, but he should have never had to give it... |
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03/20/2008 03:43:50 PM · #79 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
I don't continue to go there for 20 years ... |
You're putting events backwards though -- he didn't hear those things and then keep going for 20 years, he went for (about) 20 years and then heard those things. Plenty of us have developed close associations over the years where we don't agree with every single opinion of the other, and which we don't throw away because someone expresses that disagreement. |
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03/20/2008 03:46:31 PM · #80 |
So, GeneralE, I guess that means this is the *first* time his pastor has ever publically said something like that? Perhaps, but I seriously doubt it. (edit -- the whole "don't trust the white man" theme was visible on the church's website when it was just rumoured that Obama *might* possibly be considered as a candidate. That I read for myself. I don't know if it has changed now, or not)
LoudDog, if my pastor said something even remotely similar to that, he probably wouldn't be allowed to be a pastor at my church for long. :/
Message edited by author 2008-03-20 15:50:40.
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03/20/2008 03:51:03 PM · #81 |
| To be perfectly honest, I've not been following the details of this particular facet of the campaign all that closely -- I think I've only heard one or two examples of the controversial speech(es). |
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03/20/2008 03:56:07 PM · #82 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
I don't continue to go there for 20 years ... |
You're putting events backwards though -- he didn't hear those things and then keep going for 20 years, he went for (about) 20 years and then heard those things. Plenty of us have developed close associations over the years where we don't agree with every single opinion of the other, and which we don't throw away because someone expresses that disagreement. |
So you are saying Obama had no idea his pastor thought like this until a few days ago? 20 years a member, never had a clue??? Umm, with observation skills like that, I don't think he should be president.
Disagreeing about minor things is not big deal, but if my friend is a KKK member does that make you think less of me? If I go to that radical church that hates gay people and say, "well I don't agree with them all the time..." does that make it okay? Take off your polical blinders. |
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03/20/2008 04:02:20 PM · #83 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Take off your polical blinders. |
Yes, I've been trying to follow that advice since I first registered to vote (as a Republican) in 1970. |
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03/20/2008 04:03:31 PM · #84 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Take off your polical blinders. |
Yes, I've been trying to follow that advice since I first registered to vote (as a Republican) in 1970. |
The irony. :) When I registered in 1988, at the ripe old age of 18, I registered as a Democrat. :) :)
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03/20/2008 04:12:23 PM · #85 |
Originally posted by karmat:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Take off your polical blinders. |
Yes, I've been trying to follow that advice since I first registered to vote (as a Republican) in 1970. |
The irony. :) When I registered in 1988, at the ripe old age of 18, I registered as a Democrat. :) :) |
So, once you're registered for one party you always have to vote that way? Do you have to register in order to vote?
Isn't the ballot secret? |
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03/20/2008 04:19:51 PM · #86 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Originally posted by karmat:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Take off your polical blinders. |
Yes, I've been trying to follow that advice since I first registered to vote (as a Republican) in 1970. |
The irony. :) When I registered in 1988, at the ripe old age of 18, I registered as a Democrat. :) :) |
So, once you're registered for one party you always have to vote that way? Do you have to register in order to vote?
Isn't the ballot secret? |
Not sure what you are driving at here?
You can vote for anyone, regardless of party affiliation. Yes, the ballots are secret ballots.
The only exceptions are for primaries. For some reason, that I used to know and no longer do, in my county, if you are a registered republican, you do not vote in any elections except for the ones in November. So, May referendums and primaries, etc. you are not allowed to vote. That has changed to some degree, and I'm not sure what I'm registered as now (Independent, maybe).
Up until recently, though, in my immediate area (and maybe still, in some areas) if you weren't a registered Democrat, you were in jeopardy of gettng/keeping a job. It wasn't able to be proven, of course, but when I first started teaching, I was asked, (off the record, of course), "How you registered?" >:(
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03/20/2008 04:23:23 PM · #87 |
You have to register to vote, usually in the county where you reside. You may declare a party affiliation, but that only makes a difference during the primary election when parties are picking their candidates -- in some (not all) states, you can only vote for candidates in your own party. Voter registration forms are usually available at Post Offices, libraries, and motor vehicle department offices. You need to be 18 at the time the election will be held in order to register.
In a general election, for non-partisan offices (e.g. Sheriff), or for ballot measures, it doesn't matter what (if any) party you affiliate with, as all voters get the same ballot and can vote for whomever they choose. |
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03/20/2008 04:32:53 PM · #88 |
Thanks karmat and GeneralE.
I was getting the impression that you had to register for a party (not just register in general) and then could only vote for candidates of that party.
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03/20/2008 04:38:03 PM · #89 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Thanks karmat and GeneralE.
I was getting the impression that you had to register for a party (not just register in general) and then could only vote for candidates of that party. |
That's the case in some states in the primary. Other states have "open" primaries where people can vote for a candidate regardless of how they are registered.
In the general election there are no such restrictions.
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03/20/2008 04:39:11 PM · #90 |
Originally posted by karmat:
Up until recently, though, in my immediate area (and maybe still, in some areas) if you weren't a registered Democrat, you were in jeopardy of gettng/keeping a job. It wasn't able to be proven, of course, but when I first started teaching, I was asked, (off the record, of course), "How you registered?" >:( |
I would have replied "As a voter." |
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03/20/2008 04:54:42 PM · #91 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by karmat:
... I was asked, (off the record, of course), "How you registered?" >:( |
I would have replied "As a voter." |
"Why, as myself, silly. You mean I can register under someone else's name?"
Message edited by author 2008-03-20 16:55:04. |
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03/20/2008 05:00:12 PM · #92 |
Those were pretty close to my responses. I played "dumb" until it became obvious that he was asking something that was at best "tacky," and quite possibly illegal.
It was never mentioned again.
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03/20/2008 07:57:15 PM · #93 |
So, here is the big conspiracy. Clinton and Obama decide to "fight it out," knowing that the mainstream media will watch every move, every word, every action, and then report on it. The more dramatic they can make it, the more the media will run with it.
Meanwhile, back at the ranch, people are saying, "Now, who is John McCain again?"
Bad press is free.
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03/20/2008 09:00:39 PM · #94 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
I don't continue to go there for 20 years ... |
You're putting events backwards though -- he didn't hear those things and then keep going for 20 years, he went for (about) 20 years and then heard those things. Plenty of us have developed close associations over the years where we don't agree with every single opinion of the other, and which we don't throw away because someone expresses that disagreement. |
You must be kidding.
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03/20/2008 09:08:24 PM · #95 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by BHuseman:
And Obama still clings on to Wright with his unwillingness to "disown" Wright. |
It's weird, I probably have more respect for him because of that... The easy thing would be to cast the guy out, disown him totally... Distance himself as far as he could from the man and the message...Instead he stands by his friend and advisor, even while disagreeing with his words. |
Yeah,it must have been easier to throw his grandmother under the train instead.
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03/21/2008 02:19:25 AM · #96 |
Originally posted by David Ey:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
I don't continue to go there for 20 years ... |
You're putting events backwards though -- he didn't hear those things and then keep going for 20 years, he went for (about) 20 years and then heard those things. Plenty of us have developed close associations over the years where we don't agree with every single opinion of the other, and which we don't throw away because someone expresses that disagreement. |
You must be kidding. |
I'm not sure, David, what part of GeneralE's statement you're taking exception to, but apparently, based on what I've been reading, the kinds of sentiments expressed by Wright in the clips we've been seeing were very rare. Here's a short quotation from an article in yesterday's New York Times:
"Many well-meaning Americans perceive Mr. Wright as fundamentally a hate-monger who preaches antagonism toward whites. But those who know his church say that is an unrecognizable caricature: He is a complex figure and sometimes a reckless speaker, but one of his central messages is not anti-white hostility but black self-reliance.
âThe big thing for Wright is hope,â said Martin Marty, one of Americaâs foremost theologians, who has known the Rev. Wright for 35 years and attended many of his services. âYou hear âhope, hope, hope.â Lots of ordinary people are there, and theyâre there not to blast the whites. Theyâre there to get hope.â
"Professor Marty said that as a white person, he sticks out in the largely black congregation but is always greeted with warmth and hospitality. âItâs not anti-white,â he said. âI donât know anybody whoâs white who walks out of there not feeling affirmed.â
I thought Obama's speech the other day was outstanding in its intelligence and gravity and nuance, and I think Obama has handled the uproar with an amazing degree of grace and honesty.
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03/21/2008 09:58:20 AM · #97 |
See, I don't know.
Many months ago, I visited the church website. On their "Who we Are" page, it was very pro-black, pro-African, anti-white. The exact wording I do not remember, but it was something like "resist the oppression" of the white people. It was enough for me to come away from the website feeling, well, less than loved by my brothers and sisters in Christ, and a little hesitant to open my arms to Obama's candidacy. It was freakingly similar to some of the white supremacist sites I've happened across, only black was substituted for white. :(
I looked yesterday, and that particular wording has since been removed. In its place are video clips about how they love their white brothers, or something like that. Hopefully, that means they have evaluated their stance and realized it was divisive, instead of just detrimental to the campaign.
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03/21/2008 10:40:15 AM · #98 |
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03/21/2008 10:42:38 AM · #99 |
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03/21/2008 10:54:26 AM · #100 |
Karmat, I take your point, and had I come across something like what you describe, it may have been disturbing to me too. But I really have not found anything like that about this pastor or his church.
I might point out also that to rail against institutional racism, or racial oppression, or racial injustice, which is how I interpret Wright's remarks, does not automatically make one a racist.
And I find it hard to comprehend that anyone could listen to Obama speak on these issues, or read his autobiography, and come away feeling that he in any way aligns himself with a racist belief system or is a hate-monger. He is the polar opposite of that, as far as I can tell. |
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