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03/04/2008 04:00:05 PM · #126 |
The only way I can see "juried" competitions working here at DPC would be:
1.) Limit the number of entrants. First come, first served, no placeholder/change-out allowed.
2.) Perhaps have double the number of "judges" and assign each judge half the lot, randomly. Every entrant still gets rated, but only by half the judges.
I'm not sure that (2) is required if (1) is set low enough. |
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03/04/2008 04:01:21 PM · #127 |
| ... and the qualifications for the judges are? |
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03/04/2008 04:03:10 PM · #128 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
1.) Limit the number of entrants. First come, first served, no placeholder/change-out allowed. |
Based on that I wouldn't even want to look at the images that made it in. I'd be so ticked for not being the "fastest". |
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03/04/2008 04:04:06 PM · #129 |
I would like to see this done every 4 months or twice a year. Again, not to appear like we're overhauling the site but to throw in a little bonus for those who would like to see things move outside of the status quo. Believe it or not folks...the same old stuff over and over does get boring after a year or so.
It should be run and sanctioned by the site aas a Member ONLY Challenge and they could award ribbons with a slightly different Ribbon icon that mark that it was a special Challenge judged by a select (10-20 or 30)Member panel.
The Posthumous Ribbon thread is cool and fine but Id rather see it more formalized....as I said twice a year, would be cool and not over doing it. As it is the posthumous ribbons are simple random opinions which is fine and fun but let's do it for the whole enchilada.
ETA: Posthumous is a great man and his opinion carries the weight of many men but keep in mind he does live in New Jersey...
ETA II: Let's put his face in the center of the Special Ribbon. A prize I would covet...
As for the panel of judges, I'd like to see it comprise of longstanding members that aren't particularly Ribbon-Centric in atittude or style. Members that aren't wowed everytime they see a waterdrop shot or wine glasses with colored backgrounds (no offense to the waterdrop people). Since we've been there so many times it would be great to have judges that have seen it all before. Newbies tend to fall all over that stuff the first time they see it.
How's that for a start?
Message edited by author 2008-03-04 16:34:20. |
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03/04/2008 04:04:18 PM · #130 |
| oooor, surprise one of the challenges and make announcements to tell people that challenge will be voted by selected judges after the rollover. This way people wouldn't know which challenge will be voted by the judge, and entries could be kept less than many. I know this probably wouldn't be fair, but it is an idea :) |
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03/04/2008 04:07:11 PM · #131 |
| How would not knowing whether a challenge is being voted on by judges keep the numbers down? |
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03/04/2008 04:11:13 PM · #132 |
For those that have had stuff juried - is it common for the judges to comment on each and every entry? I've not had anything judged or juried so I don't know, but I would assume the judges would do an initial "cull" and narrow down their attention to a few select entries for more attention. The rest would be dismissed with no clarification, no critique - just dismissed.
Not sure that would satisfy those entering if they didn't make the initial cull. |
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03/04/2008 04:12:08 PM · #133 |
I prefer the way it is at the moment. Judges are just normal people with there own individual view on what makes a good image and have there own individual interpretation on the challenge description.
So why limit it to just a few âjudgesâ when the system at the moment allows for hundreds of our peers to judge our entries.
If the best reason for doing this is for change then fine a few experiment challenges would be cool but I think I would still prefer to have them judged and voted on by everyone at the same time so you could end up with a three ribbon winners by the normal method and the three ribbon winners by a juried system in the same challenge.
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03/04/2008 04:13:15 PM · #134 |
We (the camera club) have a competition at the end of the year for which 3 judges are invited to rate the entries. They are not required to comment at all. At the end, if time permits, they are asked to pick 2 or 3 images each and comment on them.
Message edited by author 2008-03-04 16:13:37. |
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03/04/2008 04:14:36 PM · #135 |
With my website, which probably will be once a month thing, I was thinking to have judges actually record their voices while they vote and probably this can be done here and uploaded to dpcradio.com for us to hear that challenge results. Why did I say this? because 1-we do have dpcradio, and some stuff done already... 2-comments could be longer than typing, and more personal in depth.
:) |
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03/04/2008 04:20:07 PM · #136 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
For those that have had stuff juried - is it common for the judges to comment on each and every entry? I've not had anything judged or juried so I don't know, but I would assume the judges would do an initial "cull" and narrow down their attention to a few select entries for more attention. The rest would be dismissed with no clarification, no critique - just dismissed.
Not sure that would satisfy those entering if they didn't make the initial cull. |
The last one I entered had very few comments on any entries and mine had none, even the ribbon-winners. Mind you, it wasn't a big, professional show but it was still a judged competition that I paid to enter. |
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03/04/2008 04:21:49 PM · #137 |
Originally posted by FocusPoint:
With my website, which probably will be once a month thing, I was thinking to have judges actually record their voices while they vote and probably this can be done here and uploaded to dpcradio.com for us to hear that challenge results. Why did I say this? because 1-we do have dpcradio, and some stuff done already... 2-comments could be longer than typing, and more personal in depth.
:) |
Make sure you have DPC's permission before using their resources. |
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03/04/2008 04:23:16 PM · #138 |
Originally posted by BeeCee:
Originally posted by FocusPoint:
With my website, which probably will be once a month thing, I was thinking to have judges actually record their voices while they vote and probably this can be done here and uploaded to dpcradio.com for us to hear that challenge results. Why did I say this? because 1-we do have dpcradio, and some stuff done already... 2-comments could be longer than typing, and more personal in depth.
:) |
Make sure you have DPC's permission before using their resources. |
Definitely... |
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03/04/2008 04:25:19 PM · #139 |
I'm trying to figure out why this idea and this thread bother me, without just spewing negativity all over the place. But honestly, I don't like this idea, but why?
Someone else may have nailed it earlier: if it isn't broken, don't fix it. At what point is it better to simply accept that our favorites may not be the group favorites?
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03/04/2008 04:29:05 PM · #140 |
Originally posted by karmat:
my question "why" was in response to de sousa's post about "accepting" other things than "stock" (paraphrased) NOT why juried competitions.
So,we have two or three a year. Who gets to participate, and how do we determine that? |
Members Only
As for determining which members, it's simple, hold a lottery.
Members can put their name in an entry pool and from that pool, a random number of entrants would be selected.
Depending on the level of interest, those who were selected to compete in one juried challenge would be ineligible for the next one or two.
Message edited by author 2008-03-04 16:32:03. |
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03/04/2008 04:33:45 PM · #141 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by karmat:
my question "why" was in response to de sousa's post about "accepting" other things than "stock" (paraphrased) NOT why juried competitions.
So,we have two or three a year. Who gets to participate, and how do we determine that? |
Members Only
As for determining which members, it's simple, hold a lottery.
Members can put their name in an entry pool and from that pool, a random number of entrants would be selected.
Depending on the level of interest, those who were selected to compete in one juried challenge would be ineligible for the next one or two. |
Would the judges be determined in the same way? What's the criteria for being a judge? |
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03/04/2008 04:36:32 PM · #142 |
Originally posted by citymars:
I'm trying to figure out why this idea and this thread bother me, without just spewing negativity all over the place. But honestly, I don't like this idea, but why?
Someone else may have nailed it earlier: if it isn't broken, don't fix it. At what point is it better to simply accept that our favorites may not be the group favorites? |
It may not be broken for you, but to other members, the same old, same old may be broken. Some members may be looking for variety beyond the typical weekly challenge yet still within the DPC community that we so highly value.
I don't think anyone is suggesting that the current challenge format be replaced with a juried challenge, just that such challenges could be a good way to add some spice to the DPC experience. |
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03/04/2008 04:38:52 PM · #143 |
But, in the way(s) it has been presented, only a handful, or small percentage of the site gets to benefit.
How is that a good thing? (for those outside of the benefit?) |
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03/04/2008 04:43:07 PM · #144 |
Originally posted by karmat:
But, in the way(s) it has been presented, only a handful, or small percentage of the site gets to benefit... |
Why? Entries and evaluations (votes and comments) could be viewed by anyone, no?
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03/04/2008 04:50:07 PM · #145 |
I'm not against the idea of having a few of these each year. But....
As the competition chair for my camera club I'm responsible for getting outside judges for our twice-monthly competitions. Sometimes we have a panel of 3, sometimes solo judges, and sometimes we fill in with club members.
And here's what I get to hear:
Who will the judges be, I want to tailor my entry for them.
That landscape photographer was too hard on my landscape...he's jealous.
That nature photographer promoted all the nature shots, my portrait was ignored.
Three judges is too many.
One judge is too biased.
Club members shouldn't judge, they know everyone's style and won't be unbiased.
...and on, and on.
Here's what the judges continuously say:
Judging is a subjective art. After the technical aspects of an image are considered the rest is just my opinion.
And here's what I believe:
Given any number of judges the cream will rise to the top. The same images judged by 500 DPC'rs, 3 professional photographers, or a handful of wags off the street will tend to sort out the same. The particular rank (which is first, second, ...tenth) may change, but good is good and is usually recognized as such. What is "great," however, may be overlooked under any scheme.
That's my 2 cents. ;-Ã
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03/04/2008 04:52:49 PM · #146 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by karmat:
my question "why" was in response to de sousa's post about "accepting" other things than "stock" (paraphrased) NOT why juried competitions.
So,we have two or three a year. Who gets to participate, and how do we determine that? |
Members Only
As for determining which members, it's simple, hold a lottery.
Members can put their name in an entry pool and from that pool, a random number of entrants would be selected.
Depending on the level of interest, those who were selected to compete in one juried challenge would be ineligible for the next one or two. |
Would the judges be determined in the same way? What's the criteria for being a judge? |
No, as with most other juried shows, the judges should be someone with some established level of photographic/artistic skill. They could be some group of DPC members qualified on the basis of their past participation in the site (scores, comments, nominated by members etc.), an outside photographer/artist or both. Certainly, no one juror will please everyone, but that's the way juried competitions are. |
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03/04/2008 04:57:56 PM · #147 |
Originally posted by citymars:
I'm trying to figure out why this idea and this thread bother me, without just spewing negativity all over the place. But honestly, I don't like this idea, but why? |
I think it's the implication that the answer arrived at by the currently-used system is somehow "wrong" as opposed to just being "different."
Imagine this -- we take all the DPL teams from last season, and figure out how they rank the photos as a team. Does anyone doubt that there would be several different sets of top-ten finishers? Yet, if we add up all the votes together, we should get the result we get now.
Any "jury" or sub-group is likely to come up with different results than any other sub-group. The danger comes when someone says "I think the site would be better-off using a sub-group more closely-aligned with my values."
Again, any current challenge can be subjected to a "juried evaluation" right now -- just the results will be published in a thread instead of being displayed as thumbs on the home page. Form a jury (however you want), judge the photos (by whatever criteria you decide), publish the results -- no problem.
Message edited by author 2008-03-04 16:58:49. |
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03/04/2008 04:58:44 PM · #148 |
Originally posted by karmat:
But, in the way(s) it has been presented, only a handful, or small percentage of the site gets to benefit.
How is that a good thing? (for those outside of the benefit?) |
What do you mean by benefit? That they receive accolades and praise from the judge? Yes, that may be a small percentage. So? Every memebr will have an equal opportunity to compete. Everyone will be able to view the entries and see which entries the judges selected and read the judges' comments. Do comments hold no benefit?
How many members are there at DPC? What percentage of those enter challenges? Is that small percentage the only ones who benefit from the challenges? |
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03/04/2008 04:59:14 PM · #149 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
... Certainly, no one juror will please everyone, but that's the way juried competitions are. |
Which is a good reason for switching them up for each one of these challenges. |
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03/04/2008 04:59:36 PM · #150 |
I would say ANY paid member can enter an image...so there will be 400-600 images and the jury should vote them ALL. It's not that difficult to vote that many images. If a Memeber agrees to be on the jury they will simply agree to vote on all the image...no biggie.
Comments, while nice should NOT be necessary. That will kill them. I'd rather they look at an image fairly and properly, then vote. Commenting is cool but might zonk too much of their time and make it a harder endeavor.
Picking a jury is harder but I would highly reccomend it NOT be based on being a Ribbon Winner. There are many factors that would make this Challenge a cool thing that lie far outside the DPC norm. I think that's the most important thing to have in play.
Message edited by author 2008-03-04 17:12:54. |
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