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 02/20/2008 02:57:33 PM · #1
WARNING...READ CAREFULLY AND DO NOT JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS!

If you fit the profile as described in the below UNDERLINED CAPITALIZED TEXT then I'm speaking to you.

To all of you who specialize in voting DURING THE EARLY MORNING ONSET OF VOTING HOURS of a challenge AND who with persistence and vigor GIVE LOW SCORES while NEVER LEAVING CONSTRUCTIVE ADVICE listen up. You may think that you are hot stuff but you are a disgrace to dpchallenge. One of the primary purposes of dpc is for the skilled to mentor the hobbyist. Challenges are an exercise to express one's artistry and an opportunity to teach and learn. It is not meant to be a tool for self-ego building.

Now before someone takes the opportunity to steam roll over me I want you to carefully understand that I am not pissed off because of the low votes. Hell, many of the entries score low because they deserve them BUT if you are going to vote low have the guts to comment. That's the high road.

Now back to being pissed off. I, louisp, publicly challenge anyone who exactly fits the above profile to reply back and attempt to justify your actions.

louisp

P.S. I'll be waiting. You know who you are so speak up.

Message edited by author 2008-02-20 15:39:15.
 02/20/2008 02:59:24 PM · #2
I never vote in the early hours of the challenge (primarily because I am asleep), but just because they don't leave feedback when they initially vote, doesn't mean they don't leave it.

I've finished voting on "misunderstanding," but I'm just now getting around to commenting on some of them. . . .

Just a thought
 02/20/2008 03:02:06 PM · #3
Originally posted by karmat:
I never vote in the early hours of the challenge (primarily because I am asleep), but just because they don't leave feedback when they initially vote, doesn't mean they don't leave it.

I've finished voting on "misunderstanding," but I'm just now getting around to commenting on some of them. . . .

Just a thought


you then don't fit his profile :)
 02/20/2008 03:03:37 PM · #4
Well, I don't vote early... wait, I don't vote at all, but I admit, I do wait for the first 10 vote for my photos. USUALLY, 10 give me about 80% correct idea for the end... So, I don't know if the vote low or high, but I do get both :P

Here is what happens sometimes (I think)... people checks their votes and get low votes... get angry and start voting low to everyone... which probably explains "troll" phenomenon :)

My two cents :)

FP
 02/20/2008 03:03:41 PM · #5
Originally posted by karmat:
I never vote in the early hours of the challenge (primarily because I am asleep), but just because they don't leave feedback when they initially vote, doesn't mean they don't leave it.

I've finished voting on "misunderstanding," but I'm just now getting around to commenting on some of them. . . .

Just a thought


And a good comment it is. What I stated applies only to those that exactly fit the profile i.e. "do not comment".

Thanks for the reply.

Message edited by author 2008-02-20 15:05:20.
 02/20/2008 03:05:01 PM · #6
Originally posted by louisp:


I want you to carefully understand that I am not pissed off because of the low votes.


Originally posted by louisp:

Now back to being pissed off.
louisp

Hehe
ETA: You can join DrAchoo and go hunt them down in this thread. :P

Message edited by author 2008-02-20 15:06:52.
 02/20/2008 03:17:51 PM · #7
Originally posted by louisp:

I want you to carefully understand that I am not pissed off because of the low votes.


Umm food for thought. Do you count yourself as a low voter?

[thumb]649245[/thumb]

Message edited by author 2008-02-20 15:18:15.
 02/20/2008 03:18:27 PM · #8
I understand that some people do their commenting later on, after they have had a chance to think about the entries. That also why there are so many more views than votes.

I do have to agree with Louis that something is going on though. I know my peace entry is not fantastic, but after some initial slams into the 3's, it is now moving up towards something reasonable. I think I've been here long enough now that I have a feel for the right neighborhood something should end up in. (give or take a point)

There are most definitely some folks here who are trying to play games. Maybe it's a bizarre form of vandalism. Throw out a bunch of low scores and then sit and watch the fun. I don't know if the SC or D&L are able to identify them or not. I don't have an issue if someone legitimately feels my entry sucks. Just wish they would participate and tell me why it sucks. Heck, I think I gave a mediocre score to one of the Ribbon winners in the bread comp, but I also left a comment to give a clue why.
 02/20/2008 03:19:14 PM · #9
You might want to think about your criteria a moment. It's 5 in the morning here in the UK when the challenges start voting, so I wouldn't classify myself as voting "during the early morning hours" as I start at about 7am - although you probably would as it's 2am server time. Obviously this situation moves further into the day the further east the voters are in the world.

02/20/2008 03:20:13 PM · #10
Originally posted by salmiakki:
Originally posted by louisp:

I want you to carefully understand that I am not pissed off because of the low votes.


Umm food for thought. Do you count yourself as a low voter?

[thumb]649245[/thumb]


WOW... cast and received are identical :P
 02/20/2008 03:22:08 PM · #11
I guess I don't see the "phenonmenon" (or however it is spelled) simply because it has been that way for as long as I can remember.

My score (with a few exceptions) always starts low in the first few hours of voting, starts climbing in the afternoon of the first day, and continues to edge up for three or four days (with perhaps a rare drop), then begins to go back down for a day or so, then has a last minute climb. It's been this way for *almost* six years, now.

While I don't deny the existence of trolls (and SC is much more active in "hunting" them than you could know), I guess I just don't see the novelty or "newness" of them.
 02/20/2008 03:30:59 PM · #12
I suppose I'll get used to it! If not, I can go troll hunting with the good Doctor sometime.
02/20/2008 03:33:48 PM · #13
Originally posted by FocusPoint:
Originally posted by salmiakki:
Originally posted by louisp:

I want you to carefully understand that I am not pissed off because of the low votes.


Umm food for thought. Do you count yourself as a low voter?

[thumb]649245[/thumb]


WOW... cast and received are identical :P


Take your best shot pal! I'm talking about making constructive comments buddy not votes. Have you something to hide? Huh?

louisp
 02/20/2008 03:36:13 PM · #14
Originally posted by karmat:
I guess I don't see the "phenonmenon" (or however it is spelled) simply because it has been that way for as long as I can remember.

My score (with a few exceptions) always starts low in the first few hours of voting, starts climbing in the afternoon of the first day, and continues to edge up for three or four days (with perhaps a rare drop), then begins to go back down for a day or so, then has a last minute climb. It's been this way for *almost* six years, now.

While I don't deny the existence of trolls (and SC is much more active in "hunting" them than you could know), I guess I just don't see the novelty or "newness" of them.


karmat, this issue here for me is that these voters do not provide constructive advice. Low voting trends can occur throughout a competition but when a consistent pattern of early low votes with few to any comments are made then that becomes an issue.

Thank you.
louisp
 02/20/2008 03:36:35 PM · #15
It could be some enjoy making people irate, vote Ultra Early and all Ultra low to watch people flip out in the forums and scores thread. Then go back and change votes later in the week. It could be these low votes are mostly done away with by the scrubber. It is in fact the same for everyone, so makes no difference in how you place. It has always been this way. On occasion you will get a few people who right after rollover give everyone one really high marks and everyone's score is over inflated and for the rest of the week you watch your score drop. Then maybe you get a thread about mid week low votes...
FWIW, I like my trolls early right after rollover, start me in the 4s, that way when I end up at 5.8 it feels like an accomplishment. :)

So what your plan if no one steps up?
 02/20/2008 03:37:26 PM · #16
Originally posted by louisp:

I, louisp, publicly challenge anyone who exactly fits the above profile to reply back and attempt to justify your actions.



It's hilarious.
 02/20/2008 03:37:32 PM · #17
Originally posted by louisp:
karmat, this issue here for me is that these voters do not provide constructive advice.

Neither are they required to.
 02/20/2008 03:38:12 PM · #18
Originally posted by karmat:
While I don't deny the existence of trolls (and SC is much more active in "hunting" them than you could know), I guess I just don't see the novelty or "newness" of them.


Totally agreed. But trolls are like weeds. If you don't pick them now and then, they start to take over the place.

To totally mangle a Voltaire quote (which actually wasn't said by Voltaire), "I do not agree with your vote of 1, but I'll defend to the death your right to vote it." However, I do think the percentage of people who are trying to purposely manipulate the scores (which is against the ToS) is higher among low scoring voters. Call it voter profiling if you want, but I believe it is true. By keeping our eye on low voters we more often and more quickly catch those who are up to no good. The last two challenges I know of where voting was clearly off proved to have manipulators present (The Eyes Have It and Landscape III are the ones I'm talking about).

So while it irks me when I get a 1 or 2, I'm fine with the score itself. Not everybody is going to like every entry I submit (although they should... ;)). But I consider it helping the site out to root out manipulators.
 02/20/2008 03:38:23 PM · #19
Originally posted by paynekj:
You might want to think about your criteria a moment. It's 5 in the morning here in the UK when the challenges start voting, so I wouldn't classify myself as voting "during the early morning hours" as I start at about 7am - although you probably would as it's 2am server time. Obviously this situation moves further into the day the further east the voters are in the world.


Your point is well stated and received. Instead of considering my statement as referring to the clock time consider it as onset of voting. I have edited the criteria.

Thanks,
louisp

Message edited by author 2008-02-20 15:39:52.
 02/20/2008 03:46:21 PM · #20
Originally posted by jdannels:
It could be some enjoy making people irate, vote Ultra Early and all Ultra low to watch people flip out in the forums and scores thread. Then go back and change votes later in the week. It could be these low votes are mostly done away with by the scrubber. It is in fact the same for everyone, so makes no difference in how you place. It has always been this way. On occasion you will get a few people who right after rollover give everyone one really high marks and everyone's score is over inflated and for the rest of the week you watch your score drop. Then maybe you get a thread about mid week low votes...
FWIW, I like my trolls early right after rollover, start me in the 4s, that way when I end up at 5.8 it feels like an accomplishment. :)

So what your plan if no one steps up?


I guess I will jump up and down, yell some then go kick a tree but back to reality. We both know that no one is going to come forward.

louisp


Message edited by author 2008-02-20 15:47:31.
 02/20/2008 03:55:46 PM · #21
Originally posted by louisp:


I guess I will jump up and down, yell some then go kick a tree but back to reality. We both know that no one is going to come forward.

louisp


Will you be the first to come forward? Your comment to vote ratio is almost 20:1 and casting an average of 4.6093 I'd be interested to know what you consider a low score?

At least your consistent with your voting so guess thats a plus?
 02/20/2008 04:11:12 PM · #22
Originally posted by FocusPoint:
Originally posted by salmiakki:
Originally posted by louisp:

I want you to carefully understand that I am not pissed off because of the low votes.


Umm food for thought. Do you count yourself as a low voter?

[thumb]649245[/thumb]


WOW... cast and received are identical :P


To further amaze you over at another photography site my average given vote is 7 while my average received vote is 6.981! Notice the consistency.

As a retired professional Logistician I was very successful at what I did for over 32 years. Rooting out problems and various forms of numerical inconsistencies were a specialy.

Within an average there are obviously highs, lows and everything in between. If I voted consistently high that that would indicate that I endorsed the majority of entries as superior. We both know that would be foolish and unrealistic. If I voted consistentently low that that too would indicated that I puposely voted low. So with these few statements I hope you can see that with my given average and received average at two seperate signs reveal a couple of clear indicators.

1.) The given score average indicates that I vote throughout the scale giving highs to those that in my opinion deserve them and lows that likewise in my opinion deserve them.

2.) The received average indicates that I am neither master the crate nor do I totally suck. While some of my work has it moments just as many leave something to be desired.

louisp

A great number of entries are like mine amaturist and of the quality of a hobbyist.

Message edited by author 2008-02-20 16:18:44.
 02/20/2008 04:14:16 PM · #23
[user]louisp[/user], for the sake of the discussion what do you consider a low score?
 02/20/2008 04:15:48 PM · #24
does this sound familiar?
 02/20/2008 04:17:01 PM · #25
Originally posted by Ecce Signum:
Originally posted by louisp:


I guess I will jump up and down, yell some then go kick a tree but back to reality. We both know that no one is going to come forward.

louisp


Will you be the first to come forward? Your comment to vote ratio is almost 20:1 and casting an average of 4.6093 I'd be interested to know what you consider a low score?

At least your consistent with your voting so guess thats a plus?


Ecce Signum, before lighting the cruficial fire read my previous explantation of my given and received averages. I hope in doesn't make you too dizzy. To answer the second portion of you question read on.

I consider low votes as 1 to 3, 4 to 5 as median, 7 and 8 as advanced, 9 as superior and 10 as close to perfection as in my opinion is possible. After becoming more educated with the true purpose of dpchallenge, when I do vote and when those votes are low (1 to 3) I comment.

Next!
louisp

Message edited by author 2008-02-20 16:25:22.
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