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02/19/2008 09:15:40 PM · #176 |
Originally posted by zxaar:
Why you should decide what I find abusive and offensive. If I reported it I find it offensive, its simple.
And this is why we need editorial control over our images. As Gorden is asking and you are arguing against it. It all boils down to this.
As photographer I know many of us want more control over our images those we post here. |
First things first... whether you personally like it or not, unmoderated forums (including comment systems) are historically known to degenerate. No control combined with the effective anonymity of the net means that people say things they would never say to someone's face. There *must* be some control on that, and we are charged with providing it. Minimal "censorship" of abusive posts/comments will inevitably be necessary.
Conversely, if we remove (or allow removal) of comments for any reason whatever, then we effectively stifle free speech. The usefulness of the comment system depends on honest, open communication without fear of retribution, and so we are also charged with maintaining an atmosphere where commenters feel confident that they may express a valid opinion without retaliation.
Finally, to address your last line, we certainly have control over what images we post, however when we post an image to the net (anywhere, not just here) we open ourselves to critique. That is sometimes not pleasant; I know it has been unpleasant for me occasionally. Still, we don't learn from a pat on the back nearly as well as we learn from a well-deserved rebuke. Negative comments, though occasionally painful, are often the most informative. |
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02/19/2008 09:17:44 PM · #177 |
Originally posted by iamkmaniam:
Originally posted by zxaar:
Originally posted by iamkmaniam:
Originally posted by zxaar:
As photographer I know many of us want more control over our images those we post here. |
As a photographer you have read the contract and accepted it, if it is now displeasing renegotiate or decline its acceptance. |
Yes this is the reason many of us simply leave this site. When I get bored I would also do the same.
On another note, if the system seems to have some issues, it is not bad idea to change the rules and make things better. No matter what we signed on, change can still come if there are willing people to listen.
If system do not change people just move out of that system.
(Now you would say if I do not like the system I can move out. Yes you can and I might if its not worth to me). |
Yes you are correct, however I believe this thread is part of the renegotiate aspect, and members will decide at its conclusion.
I did not mean the statement to be a personal attack on you. |
I did not take it as personal attack.
I do wish to have polls on this issue. There are always some threads about discussing these issue, but nothing concrete comes out because these slowly get lost into oblivion or are locked.
If we had poll about editorial control, we could know what majority of us wants. If majority of us say that let SC decide about comments recieved then let it be. If people decide that we want more control over what we recieve (at least portfolio images) then just give them that feature. It will only make life of photographers easy and is good for the site. |
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02/19/2008 09:19:00 PM · #178 |
Originally posted by zxaar:
... On another note, if the system seems to have some issues, it is not bad idea to change the rules and make things better. ... |
Issues based on who's input? From what I've read it's a point of contention for a very small number of vocal members, not a ground swell of support (or complaint) from a large block of DPCr's. |
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02/19/2008 09:20:40 PM · #179 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by zxaar:
... On another note, if the system seems to have some issues, it is not bad idea to change the rules and make things better. ... |
Issues based on who's input? From what I've read it's a point of contention for a very small number of vocal members, not a ground swell of support (or complaint) from a large block of DPCr's. |
this is why I think poll is good idea. What I like personally should not be put onto others. I know we agree on this. |
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02/19/2008 09:21:33 PM · #180 |
Anyway, to give my vote on this poll (just recalling what the OP was about!)
I vote 5) Comment rating system. Something similar to the way YouTube do things at the moment. A thumbs up / thumbs down system. When a comment receives a certain number of 'thumbs down' ratings, it is automatically hidden.
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02/19/2008 09:27:33 PM · #181 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
Finally, to address your last line, we certainly have control over what images we post, however when we post an image to the net (anywhere, not just here) we open ourselves to critique. That is sometimes not pleasant; I know it has been unpleasant for me occasionally. Still, we don't learn from a pat on the back nearly as well as we learn from a well-deserved rebuke. Negative comments, though occasionally painful, are often the most informative. |
the people that would delete any negative comments (non-offensive and about their photography) are probably the people that ignore this hurtful but informative input already. who does it hurt if one of these photographers deletes a comment they aren't pleased with? themselves. i wouldn't go so far as saying the commenter because obviously the comment was read. if a photographer is going to go so far as to delete some meaningful constructive criticism, then i'm willing to guess, had he not had the option to delete it.. he wouldn't be the type to learn from it anyway. |
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02/19/2008 09:30:49 PM · #182 |
Originally posted by iamkmaniam:
Originally posted by zxaar:
As photographer I know many of us want more control over our images those we post here. |
As a photographer you have read the contract and accepted it, if it is now displeasing renegotiate or decline its acceptance. |
Not to add to the fray but...you are free to pack up and leave when you choose.
You agreed to the ToS when you signed up. If you have a personal website then you may "SC" it the way YOU choose. This is not my website so therefore I respect the Admin/SC with THEIR decisions. I might not always agree with their choice SO I could (though I have NO knowledge how) go create my own version of a "photo challenge" website. Then I can "control" it however I choose
I'm not pointing this at anyONE particular person, just as a polite warning, PLEASE RESPECT THE SC AND THEIR DECISIONS. |
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02/19/2008 09:46:19 PM · #183 |
Originally posted by Venom:
Originally posted by iamkmaniam:
Originally posted by zxaar:
As photographer I know many of us want more control over our images those we post here. |
As a photographer you have read the contract and accepted it, if it is now displeasing renegotiate or decline its acceptance. |
Not to add to the fray but...you are free to pack up and leave when you choose.
You agreed to the ToS when you signed up. If you have a personal website then you may "SC" it the way YOU choose. This is not my website so therefore I respect the Admin/SC with THEIR decisions. I might not always agree with their choice SO I could (though I have NO knowledge how) go create my own version of a "photo challenge" website. |
Or, you could bring up concerns and issues that are important to you in a mature and adult manner, and bring it to the attention of the entire site population.
I'm dismayed at the sheer number of people telling those that think change is a good thing to pack up and get out. Is quitting something one enjoys the only solution? Of course not. Everyone is within their rights to have a conversation and try to effect change, if they think they can, or simply to outline their rationale for asking for it. If something happens, great, if nothing happens, wonderful. But surely you don't advocate that everyone should just shut up about things because "that's just the way it is"? |
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02/19/2008 09:47:36 PM · #184 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Or, you could bring up concerns and issues that are important to you in a mature and adult manner, and bring it to the attention of the entire site population.
I'm dismayed at the sheer number of people telling those that think change is a good thing to pack up and get out. Is quitting something one enjoys the only solution? Of course not. Everyone is within their rights to have a conversation and try to effect change, if they think they can, or simply to outline their rationale for asking for it. If something happens, great, if nothing happens, wonderful. But surely you don't advocate that everyone should just shut up about things because "that's just the way it is"? |
Amen !! |
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02/19/2008 09:48:21 PM · #185 |
For goodness sake, grow up. We are all adults, nothing is going to change by berating the SC or badgering other members. You think this is going to change Anything of course not, it just takes up time that you could have making your photography better.
If your hero in photography said your shot sucked and or gave you some advice on how to make it better, I am sure you would go ahead and try harder, not delete his comment becuase it hurt your feeling. Are you not in the real world? If you are that good enough not to want bad comments, then why are you on here, and where are all your ribbons??
This thread is just repeating the same thing over and over again. The SC are repeating themselves over and over again and so are some members.
Go out and photograph something, do something worth while.
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02/19/2008 09:48:23 PM · #186 |
Originally posted by JamieLynn:
... who does it hurt if one of these photographers deletes a comment they aren't pleased with? themselves. ... he wouldn't be the type to learn from it anyway. |
Wow, these two threads really are overlapping. In the 'Editorial control' thread this same subject came up; "who does it hurt if comments are deleted?".
People can, and do learn from comments left on others photos. An excerpt from the other thread below where karmat had listed some examples of actual scenarios where photographers had wanted a comment removed...
...and my take on how the comment could be beneficial.
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by karmat:
Comment: That sky looks unnatural.
Photog: How in the world can a sky look unnatural. Of course it is a natural sky. This commenter has no idea about how to comment to improve my photography. Please remove.
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I think a point that was missed since karmat posted these examples is that in several cases, these comments alone may not mean much as far as a learning/improvement tool to the photographer or a viewer. However, we're not seeing these in context. If the "sky looks unnatural" comment is mixed in with other comments making observations like "that hue of orange is rather interesting...I've not seen that before", or "the clouds seem to have picked up a pink tinge, perhaps from a hue shift?". Then, those seeking to learn from others may get a better idea of why that photo placed in the bottom 10% of the challenge. |
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02/19/2008 09:52:29 PM · #187 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by Venom:
Originally posted by iamkmaniam:
Originally posted by zxaar:
As photographer I know many of us want more control over our images those we post here. |
As a photographer you have read the contract and accepted it, if it is now displeasing renegotiate or decline its acceptance. |
Not to add to the fray but...you are free to pack up and leave when you choose.
You agreed to the ToS when you signed up. If you have a personal website then you may "SC" it the way YOU choose. This is not my website so therefore I respect the Admin/SC with THEIR decisions. I might not always agree with their choice SO I could (though I have NO knowledge how) go create my own version of a "photo challenge" website. |
Or, you could bring up concerns and issues that are important to you in a mature and adult manner, and bring it to the attention of the entire site population.
I'm dismayed at the sheer number of people telling those that think change is a good thing to pack up and get out. Is quitting something one enjoys the only solution? Of course not. Everyone is within their rights to have a conversation and try to effect change, if they think they can, or simply to outline their rationale for asking for it. If something happens, great, if nothing happens, wonderful. But surely you don't advocate that everyone should just shut up about things because "that's just the way it is"? |
Exactly what I feel.
I know arguing in forum might projects me as argumentative. But I feel someone should say what he feels otherwise change never comes. It may be bad good or anything, but let others know what you feel. This is the only way to proceed further to better things.
Telling others to just pack up and leave is one solution but ultimately we as community gets hurt. If Leroy decides to stay out of this site, it may be our loss too. I know he tries to help others as much as he can.
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02/19/2008 09:54:11 PM · #188 |
Yes but you have repeated the same thing now for the last 5 pages
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02/19/2008 09:57:56 PM · #189 |
Originally posted by JulietNN:
Yes but you have repeated the same thing now for the last 5 pages |
Basic idea would definitely get repeated. This is what we are saying correct. |
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02/19/2008 09:58:25 PM · #190 |
Originally posted by JulietNN:
For goodness sake, grow up. We are all adults, nothing is going to change by berating the SC or badgering other members. You think this is going to change Anything of course not, it just takes up time that you could have making your photography better.
If your hero in photography said your shot sucked and or gave you some advice on how to make it better, I am sure you would go ahead and try harder, not delete his comment becuase it hurt your feeling. Are you not in the real world? If you are that good enough not to want bad comments, then why are you on here, and where are all your ribbons??
This thread is just repeating the same thing over and over again. The SC are repeating themselves over and over again and so are some members.
Go out and photograph something, do something worth while. |
Well, I for one resent being told that I'm just being immature, that I'm berating the powers that be, that I'm badgering members, that change is impossible, that this is about deleting valid criticism, and that my efforts are worthless. I would characterize your post as a rant, and you should probably reconsider such broad baseless criticism in future. |
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02/19/2008 09:58:27 PM · #191 |
"Morning Bob. Whoa, what's up with that tie? Heh, should have left that in the closet!"
"I'm sorry, Ed. That comment wasn't to my liking. I'm afraid I'm going to have to kill you now."
I vote ONE (1).
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02/19/2008 10:01:56 PM · #192 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Or, you could bring up concerns and issues that are important to you in a mature and adult manner, and bring it to the attention of the entire site population. |
Leroy definitely brought it to the attention of the entire site population, but I'm not so sure that he did it in a mature and adult manner... |
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02/19/2008 10:03:02 PM · #193 |
Originally posted by bvy:
"Morning Bob. Whoa, what's up with that tie? Heh, should have left that in the closet!"
"I'm sorry, Ed. That comment wasn't to my liking. I'm afraid I'm going to have to kill you now."
I vote ONE (1). |
did you really just liken killing someone to deleting a comment? |
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02/19/2008 10:04:48 PM · #194 |
Oy Vey, this is just going in circles.
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02/19/2008 10:12:35 PM · #195 |
i'm just waiting for someone to shout....
'COME AND SEE THE VIOLENCE INHERENT IN THE SYSTEM...HELP HELP I'M BEING REPRESSED...DID EVERYONE SEE THAT? I'M BEING REPRESSED'
it certainly won't be me, though. |
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02/19/2008 10:15:59 PM · #196 |
Originally posted by Beetle:
Originally posted by Louis:
Or, you could bring up concerns and issues that are important to you in a mature and adult manner, and bring it to the attention of the entire site population.
I'm dismayed at the sheer number of people telling those that think change is a good thing to pack up and get out. Is quitting something one enjoys the only solution? Of course not. Everyone is within their rights to have a conversation and try to effect change, if they think they can, or simply to outline their rationale for asking for it. If something happens, great, if nothing happens, wonderful. But surely you don't advocate that everyone should just shut up about things because "that's just the way it is"? |
Amen !! |
Change is very good but DEMANDING change is another. That's all I was saying. |
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02/19/2008 10:16:21 PM · #197 |
Originally posted by TooCool:
Originally posted by Louis:
Or, you could bring up concerns and issues that are important to you in a mature and adult manner, and bring it to the attention of the entire site population. |
Leroy definitely brought it to the attention of the entire site population, but I'm not so sure that he did it in a mature and adult manner... |
I'm not speaking for anyone but myself. Of course, I'm not the most mature person on the planet. Nyah. :-P |
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02/19/2008 10:33:08 PM · #198 |
Originally posted by desertoddity:
i'm just waiting for someone to shout....
'COME AND SEE THE VIOLENCE INHERENT IN THE SYSTEM...HELP HELP I'M BEING REPRESSED...DID EVERYONE SEE THAT? I'M BEING REPRESSED'
it certainly won't be me, though. |
You're fooling yourself. We're living in a dictatorship
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02/19/2008 10:35:16 PM · #199 |
Originally posted by JulietNN:
Oy Vey, this is just going in circles. |
Stop replying and circles stop :)
N
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02/19/2008 10:37:51 PM · #200 |
Originally posted by nomad469:
Originally posted by desertoddity:
i'm just waiting for someone to shout....
'COME AND SEE THE VIOLENCE INHERENT IN THE SYSTEM...HELP HELP I'M BEING REPRESSED...DID EVERYONE SEE THAT? I'M BEING REPRESSED'
it certainly won't be me, though. |
You're fooling yourself. We're living in a dictatorship |
be quiet!!!! |
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