Kodak DCS Pro 14n Digital SLR Mark II

03/01/2004 04:34:34 PM · #1

so... 14 megapixels for about $4k...

are the noise/colour/moire issues enough to keep this camera from being a contender?

Haven't found much 1st hand talk yet, dpreview has a short intro....

03/01/2004 04:56:20 PM · #2

I've looked at some samples from various sites and I personally find the moirÃ© unacceptable. Noise performance was much better, sharpness, color and resolution good.

Some people in the Kodak SLR forum already have one don't they?

03/01/2004 05:50:32 PM · #3

The mark 2 isn't due out until later this month I think. The auto noise reduction looked like a real draw back in the first edition of this camera. Along with the Moire issues.

ccraft

Nikon D200

03/02/2004 04:06:24 PM · #4

There are two fantastic sites I recommend you visit:

//www.epinions.com - you can search for digital cameras by price, by megapixel and by zoom lens.
You can then view product details and see reviews from users who bought the camera (kind of like Amazon.com reviews).

The other site is //www.imaging-resource.com/ There are unbelievably detailed reviews for almost every digital camera on the market. The cameras are tested by an expert and have to pass various criteria. It's an excellent source of information for digital photography.

Good luck!

03/02/2004 05:02:59 PM · #5

There is software that can sort out moire... Or don't you use sw to improve pics?

03/02/2004 05:04:19 PM · #6

Lost detail doesn't magically come back.

03/02/2004 05:40:49 PM · #7

Originally posted by Azrifel:

Lost detail doesn't magically come back.

Right, the in camera software auto matically reduced what it perceived as noise.. so there was unitentional loss of actual detail. That is a major issue as far as I'm concerned..

I'd want to be sure that wasn't going to happen before I bought a camera.

I'll check those links.
Thanks

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

03/02/2004 05:43:31 PM · #8

10d, 1ds, both suffer from moire you know... and you'll find the software does a damn fine job :-)
also do you use usm? why would you with your point of view?

Both make the image look better...

General

Kodak Z7590

03/02/2004 09:16:34 PM · #9

checkout //www.fredmiranda.com

03/03/2004 09:28:31 AM · #10

Originally posted by sn4psh07:

10d, 1ds, both suffer from moire you know... and you'll find the software does a damn fine job :-)
also do you use usm? why would you with your point of view?

Both make the image look better...

Exscuse me? I'm saying the issue with the first generation of this camera is; it has automatic internal adjustments that cause an actual loss of detail....

I use the usual digital darkroom adjustments in photoshop.

Brent_Ward

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L USM

03/03/2004 10:26:09 AM · #11

Originally posted by sn4psh07:

10d, 1ds, both suffer from moire you know... and you'll find the software does a damn fine job :-)
also do you use usm? why would you with your point of view?

Both make the image look better...

It (1Ds) does? I've been shooting for a year and haven't noticed it. Unless it's a complex fabric, but then any digital moires that.

03/03/2004 11:27:12 AM · #12

Originally posted by MeThoS:

Originally posted by sn4psh07:
10d, 1ds, both suffer from moire you know... and you'll find the software does a damn fine job :-)
also do you use usm? why would you with your point of view?

Both make the image look better...

It (1Ds) does? I've been shooting for a year and haven't noticed it. Unless it's a complex fabric, but then any digital moires that.

He he, yes thats true, but then that was my point... Well actually NO, the Sigma SD9 and SD10 CAN'T moire! any other digi will :-)

I think the 1DS, if memory serves, doesn't moire till you get to roughly 2000-2500 line pairs per picture height -- might have bad recollection though :-)

03/03/2004 11:27:14 AM · #13

double post

Message edited by author 2004-03-03 15:44:31.

Brent_Ward

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L USM

03/03/2004 12:09:56 PM · #14

Originally posted by sn4psh07:

Originally posted by MeThoS:

Originally posted by sn4psh07:
10d, 1ds, both suffer from moire you know... and you'll find the software does a damn fine job :-)
also do you use usm? why would you with your point of view?

Both make the image look better...

It (1Ds) does? I've been shooting for a year and haven't noticed it. Unless it's a complex fabric, but then any digital moires that.

He he, yes thats true, but then that was my point... Well actually NO, the Sigma SD9 and SD10 CAN'T moire! any other digi will :-)

I think the 1DS, if memory serves, doesn't moire till you get to roughly 2000-2500 line pairs per picture height -- might have bad recollection though :-)

...but even scanning film will do the same thing on the ripstock fabric I'm talking about. ;D

03/03/2004 12:14:40 PM · #15

Sorry I couldn't say, never scanned film. Joined the digi revolution and never really had a film camera :-) could never afford one :-(

03/03/2004 01:37:33 PM · #16

Originally posted by sn4psh07:

10d, 1ds, both suffer from moire you know... and you'll find the software does a damn fine job :-)
also do you use usm? why would you with your point of view?

Both make the image look better...

I have looked at a lot of samples, from every dSLR on the market (curiosity & buyers interest), but the moire of the 14n and SLR/n (14n Mark2) is much, much, much worse than that of the other offerings.

Here are two crops of fullsize SLR/n (/14N Mark2) samples. This is what I mean:

I don't think that that is good and at the moment I don't think you can perfectly restore the original colors and without destroying some detail (have a go at it, when you can I'd like to know). I know that it is caused by the lack of an anti-aliasing filter on the CCD and that that gives extra resolution/sharpness. But this is a bit too much of a tradeoff imho.

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

03/03/2004 02:01:11 PM · #17

You mean a low pass filter don't you? and it caused as much by that as by crappy firmware :-)
Fujifilm and Kodak sensors moire like buggery compared to others from what I seen...

And no I won't try the software, its like Â£450 or so and I have better things to spend what little money I have on :-)

If we have a resident millionaire then maybe he/she can oblige...

ScottK

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

03/03/2004 02:26:16 PM · #18

A thought (because I'm wrestling with similar perceptions myself with my own recent upgrade): How would those two crops, at full resolution, compare with the same scene taken by a lower megapixel camera? Would cropping 378x252 pixels on a 5 of 6 mp camera cover a much larger area of the scene, and overall have a lower level of detail. Or, from the other side, cropping out that same scene on the lower mp camera, what would the resulting resolution or dimensions be? Something like 245x165. How would the level of detail in that lower resolution compare to this sample, and how would the levels of lost detail compare?

I'm not sure you can compare without a side-by-side evaluation, of the same scene, and arguable with the same lenses (couldn't lens resolving abilities be playing a role, at least in the first sample?).

Message edited by author 2004-03-03 14:27:17.