About time these guys got nailed...

02/03/2008 05:40:57 PM · #51

My two cents is that Ambercrombie and Fitch has been pushing the line for a long time. Our culture is completely inundated with sex. I am annoyed at the attempted manipulation. I am annoyed that kids are innocent bystanders. I am annoyed I can hardly escape it.

For those who don't understand, put yourself in my shoes. I am attempting to raise my kids with values I deem to be good. Honoring sexuality is very important to me. How hard is it to instill this value in my son and daughter when sex is being sold at six for a dollar on nearly every square foot of advertising space available?

In the long run, the VA Beach police action is like trying to hold back the tide, but I don't mind them for trying.

nomad469

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 80-200mm f/2.8D ED

02/03/2008 05:44:31 PM · #52

Originally posted by ryand:

Originally posted by Everyone Ganging up on Karmat:

Lets gang up on her because she said that 14 year olds shouldn't be having sex.

This isn't a rant, he was just pointing out that this shouldn't be legal according to American laws.
How would you fathers want yours 13/14 yr. old girl having sex with her boyfriend because its been so drilled into her head that it is okay to do.

How would like your 22 year old in therapy twice a week and divorced because sex is bad has been drilled into her head ???

fotomann_forever

02/03/2008 05:45:13 PM · #53

I hate to tell you guys, but Sex would NOT sell if it weren't taboo... in the end, it's really the fault of the right wing that it's used as a device to "tempt" the young.

If it were allowed to become just a natural part of life rather than something that is "off-limits" it would not have the appeal that it has.

cynthiann

Nikon D810

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8

02/03/2008 05:47:23 PM · #54

I have 2 girls, one 17 and one 14. They would look at this picture and think of innocent fun as well, I am sure of that. They wouldn't even give it a second look. It's normal for them... not naughty. There are other kids at their school, however, who grew up with parents who over-sheltered them as they were growing up. Those kids are now teenagers and feel that images such as these are sinful, and sexual, and popular, and cool. They are wearing too much make-up and worried about their weight and every flaw they think they have.

I hope my girls have as much innocent fun skinny-dipping with their friends as I did.

Though I agree there should be lines, I don't think these images are crossing any.

Quasimojo

Canon EOS-30D

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

02/03/2008 05:48:55 PM · #55

Seems to me there are far more inappropriate images being presented to kids all day every day that are all way worse than those Abercrombie shots. At the very very worst interpretation it's vaguely homoerotic, but that's really at the far end of the scale.

If people didn't make a big deal out of it the kids wouldn't think any differently. It's just a bunch of guys running around half naked with the top of their butt cracks showing. What if that butt crack was what we in the UK refer to as 'builders bum'...on a 50-something guy with a pot belly. No one would bat an eyelid. What is so significantly different in the A&F shot? Better looking guys? Is that gay? Is that an image to protect kids from? Personally I don't think so.

There's so much bad - like open fighting on daytime chat shows like Springer (who is protecting the kids from learning that violence and confrontation is okay), sexually explicit movie billboards, MTv pumping out innuendo all day and all night...

...so in the scheme of things the effort is better spent on the real images that are conveying bad messages to the kids, not a bunch of chisel bodied preppies running through a field with their asses hanging out!!

N

trevytrev

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L USM

02/03/2008 05:49:50 PM · #56

Originally posted by ryand:

IF your 13/14 year old daughter is having sex then there is nobody( not

nobody) to blame other than yourself. Blaming society for the way your child was raised is a copout on the failures of yourself. Take responsibility people for your children and how they behave.

jbsmithana

Nikon D300

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 12-24mm f/4.0G IF-ED

02/03/2008 05:49:53 PM · #57

If you ask me it was pretty damn stupid of the police (or mayor or whoever ordered this) to decide to draw the line in the sand on this one.

We are getting just a little parinoid in this country about this while we ignore things of much higher importance, like sending our young off to be killed out of stupidity. Or allowing Exxon to rape us for $40 billion in 2007 (another record of course). Should I go on? probably not.

Hell, what do I know? Maybe I'm missing something.

Message edited by author 2008-02-03 17:52:18.

ryand

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

02/03/2008 05:56:05 PM · #58

Originally posted by nomad469:

Originally posted by ryand:

Originally posted by Everyone Ganging up on Karmat:

Lets gang up on her because she said that 14 year olds shouldn't be having sex.

This isn't a rant, he was just pointing out that this shouldn't be legal according to American laws.
How would you fathers want yours 13/14 yr. old girl having sex with her boyfriend because its been so drilled into her head that it is okay to do.

How would like your 22 year old in therapy twice a week and divorced because sex is bad has been drilled into her head ???

I wouldn't like it because that means that someone else had been influencing my daughter if she thought that sex was bad. Sex is good, just not out of the marriage ties. It is for making two people become one flesh and when you do that before marriage and sleep around, then you are making one flesh with multiple people which can really mess a future marriage up.

Message edited by author 2008-02-03 17:56:45.

nomad469

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 80-200mm f/2.8D ED

02/03/2008 06:02:45 PM · #59

Originally posted by ryand:

Originally posted by nomad469:

Originally posted by ryand:

Originally posted by Everyone Ganging up on Karmat:

Lets gang up on her because she said that 14 year olds shouldn't be having sex.

This isn't a rant, he was just pointing out that this shouldn't be legal according to American laws.
How would you fathers want yours 13/14 yr. old girl having sex with her boyfriend because its been so drilled into her head that it is okay to do.

How would like your 22 year old in therapy twice a week and divorced because sex is bad has been drilled into her head ???

I wouldn't like it because that means that someone else had been influencing my daughter if she thought that sex was bad. Sex is good, just not out of the marriage ties. It is for making two people become one flesh and when you do that before marriage and sleep around, then you are making one flesh with multiple people which can really mess a future marriage up.

Ah yeah ...

I think that you might want to closely examine the stuff that is being pushed out to kids by those that have an even more (no offense) fundamentalist belief system than you do. But that would be so far off topic that I fear it couldn't get back.

But I will say this ... I know someone (the daughter of a very close friend) that is living the results of some of those teachings... it is not a good scene at all...

Message edited by author 2008-02-03 18:10:00.

robs

Canon EOS R6 Mk II

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

02/03/2008 06:05:48 PM · #60

Originally posted by aliqui:

The far left person is a female. What if it was your daughter. What would you think of her going to a lake with 3 guys with the clear intent of removing their clothing?

See this is root of the problem... people that want to ban this stuff have no problem trying to inflict their rules on me but god forbid anyone that disagrees (yeah, that reference was deliberate). If that's what you interpret from that image then might I suggest a berka.... whatever else it represents, it's good at hiding things that you are objecting to (taking a leaf out of the complete over-reacting cops and whiners book).

I think it's a great shot and I would certainly be happy to take an image like that. If my daughter or son were in that shoot, then great for them! It's no doubt a great reference to have a national advertising campaign credit like this one for an aspiring model... It's not like they were forced to take part.

As for not been able to avoid the images at the mall.. well there are a stack of things I object to in the mall... one near where I work has a chapel with crosses and the whole deal... I find that objectionable but I don't go an picket it or call the police to try and get the thing ripped down.

As for the on-line poll... Well; it's worth the paper it's written on... sample size, audience are sort of skewed a little.

dacrazyrn

Nikon D300

02/03/2008 06:18:07 PM · #61

I think that this post from the site, sheds some light.

You are all a bunch of morons that like to sit on your tail complaining about how stupid the police are or what a waste of taxpayer dollars, blah, blah, blah. If you don't like it, then do something about it. First off learn something about civics. Regardless of your personal opinion, there is obvioulsy a decency statute on the books that this type of advertsing "violated". Secondly, a citizen found enough offense to take it to the attention of the police. Like it or not, the police don't get to tell John Q citizen to take a chill pill. They then do the right thing by contacting the store and advising them of their violation. The store then does the American thing of saying screw you cops, we will do what we want. And so they are forced to take action against the store. That is the way our system works morons. You don't like it then petition the City Council to change the law. And give me a break with your right wing, bible thumping comments. You know absolutely nothing about the complainant. Typical lazy Americans.

fotomann_forever

02/03/2008 06:23:01 PM · #62

Originally posted by dacrazyrn:

I think that this post from the site, sheds some light.

Sheds some light on how to be a hypocrite... complaining about complainers?

Message edited by author 2008-02-03 18:23:15.

ralph

Nikon Z9

02/03/2008 06:45:21 PM · #63

i always wonder if people who complain about such things get dressed/have sex in the dark?

or

are harboring such (homo/hetro) erotic thoughts(or even actions) about images that they are embarrassed into acting against what they are obviously enjoying ?
(kindof like a few of the more famous evangelists of late)

or
i'm not 'getting any' so even the thought of an implied relationship should be out of bounds

or
.....many other hypocritical thoughts along the same vein.....

shutterpuppy

Sony Alpha a7

Canon FD 70-210mm f/4.0 MF

02/03/2008 06:52:18 PM · #64

Originally posted by ryand:

Interesting... and typical... that all the concern in these hypos seems to be for the girls.
Why isn't anyone worried about the boy who might be "forced" into having sex at 13/14 with his girlfriend "because its been so drilled into [his] head that it is okay to."

Hmm...

Look - I would want my daughter or my son -- my niece, nephew, sister, brother, neighbor's son or daughter, etc. -- to make informed, responsible decisions about their lives. That also means about their sex lives.* I wouldn't want them to feel forced or coerced into rushing decisions that they weren't ready for, but don't want them to feel unnecessary guilt or shame for participating responsibly in one of the best aspects of the human condition. If I had a daughter or a son that was seriously thinking about having sex at 13 I would be worried, because that does seem to be too early for such an adult interaction. On the other hand, if I had a daughter or son that was seriously thinking about getting married to someone that they had never had sex with I would also be worried, because sexual compatibility is a large part of the long-term compatibility of a couple more generally. (Not the whole thing, no. But a big part, yes.)

Is there too much sex in media and culture - probably. But I'm more worried about the -- already mentioned -- dysfunctional attitudes that Western society generally and U.S. society specifically hold in regard to human sexuality. The A&F pictures? = The least of our problems.

*Sorry, people teenagers have sex lives. Unmarried people have sex lives. It's natural, normal and healthy. Get over it.

Krystle

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

02/03/2008 07:05:54 PM · #65

Originally posted by fixedintime:

The cited article mentions two photos. From the description I suspect that they were more concerned with the one that is not shown in the link.

That description was: "The other image is of a woman who is topless and whose "breast is displayed with her hand covering just the nipple portion," Bernstein said. "You could still pretty much see the rest of the breast.""

I could not find any image at the company web site that matched that description, nor could I find it at any of the new releases on the incident.

this is the other image mentioned i think or at least it's one of the ones they have displayed in the store by us. sorry if someone else already posted it.

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

02/03/2008 07:14:15 PM · #66

Originally posted by Krystle:

Originally posted by fixedintime:
The cited article mentions two photos. From the description I suspect that they were more concerned with the one that is not shown in the link.

That description was: "The other image is of a woman who is topless and whose "breast is displayed with her hand covering just the nipple portion," Bernstein said. "You could still pretty much see the rest of the breast.""

I could not find any image at the company web site that matched that description, nor could I find it at any of the new releases on the incident.

this is the other image mentioned i think or at least it's one of the ones they have displayed in the store by us. sorry if someone else already posted it.

It does not fit the description of the news article...

The other image is of a woman who is topless and whose "breast is displayed with her hand covering just the nipple portion," Bernstein said. "You could still pretty much see the rest of the breast."

citymars

Canon EF 135mm f/2.0L USM

02/03/2008 07:48:37 PM · #67

Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:

Abercrombie and Fitch have used photos that have (in public) pushed the line of decency (in a very bad way).

That's a subjective stance on the subject to begin with. As for the risque photos themselves, well, I agree there should be standards, but my question is, were the photos in the window and/or visible from the mall, or were they only visible from inside the store? If the latter, and parents are worried about these values, then they should just now allow their kids to shop in A&F.

David Newland

Canon EOS-1D Mark III

02/03/2008 07:56:21 PM · #68

To be offended by the human form is to be offended of yourself.

elru21

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

02/03/2008 08:03:54 PM · #69

I don't think people (young people included) have to be told that sex is good. I think we just know sex is good, starting pretty early in puberty. It's biological. We're wired that way. I think kids need to be told that sex is a huge responsibility and all the consequences that go with it. Depending on your religious beliefs, that enters the picture, too. That's parents' job, not the media.

I think the media is just a big reflection of what we as a society respond to, not the other way around. I mean, I don't think we think about sex so much becuase the media influences us to. I think the media is filled with sexy imagery becuase we naturally think about sex so much. And, teenagers definitely think about sex alot, too. It was awhile ago, but I remember that much.

My kids are little, so maybe I'll feel differently when they are older. Just my $.02. An interesting discussion.

Liza

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

02/03/2008 08:05:51 PM · #70

** Warning: This post has been hidden as it may content mature content. Click here to show the post.

chromeydome

Nikon D7000

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

02/03/2008 08:08:07 PM · #71

Originally posted by David Newland:

To be offended by the human form is to be offended of yourself.

Hmmm... There is a reason most nude photographs are of attractive models---most of the rest of us do have offensive human forms!! I won't show you mine if you won't show me yours.

:~)

desertoddity

Nikon D300s

02/03/2008 08:09:51 PM · #72

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by David Newland:
To be offended by the human form is to be offended of yourself.

I'm happy I have a well functioning anus, but I don't think you want to see it... ;)

ya never know, though :D

i'm reading these two statements out of context, i think, so i really don't know what i'm talking about. carry on.

fotomann_forever

02/03/2008 08:12:13 PM · #73

Originally posted by elru21:

I think the media is just a big reflection of what we as a society respond to, not the other way around. I mean, I don't think we think about sex so much becuase the media influences us to. I think the media is filled with sexy imagery becuase we naturally think about sex so much. And, teenagers definitely think about sex alot, too. It was awhile ago, but I remember that much.

Exactly! Art (and therefore media) imitates life.

chromeydome

Nikon D7000

02/03/2008 08:15:11 PM · #74

Originally posted by elru21:

Yea, I remember--and they say men have a sexual thought every few secon--uh, what was the topic again?

citymars