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01/08/2008 12:40:56 PM · #1 |
I'm looking on some input on how to proceed on this.
In my free time, I'm a boy scout leader. In one of our age groups every child uses a booklet with tips and tricks, called the 'AvExpass'. I've only just seen the book cover of the new edition which has hit the shops in autumn (they are sold for 3€). For the cover, LGS, the scout organization, used one of my photographs without permission. No one had told me about it yet, so I guess I didn't get credit for it either. The photograph in question was taken during a camp for the camp newspaper, distributed for free to the children. I guess they just kept it in their archive and didn't bother to check who took the picture when they made the book.
Now, I'm really tempted to send them an invoice (it's the second time in two months someone printed my stuff without permission), but then I don't want to come across as aggressive. It's a non profit organization and I still wish to work with them in the future...
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01/08/2008 12:47:47 PM · #2 |
Depends on what you gave up when you let them use the image in the paper. If it did not include a grant of rights to re-use then you could send them an invoice. If you want to keep with them, you may just has to grin & bear it so to speak. I see "non-profit" a lot... and IMO it's just an excuse. Did they pay to have the book published or did the printer work for nothing? Who gets the money from the sales? Any of the organisation paid for their work?
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01/08/2008 12:49:35 PM · #3 |
Does this scouting organization ever pay for photo's to use in their publications? Obviously there must be some expense in having the booklets put together so they have some funding available.
I'd approach it from an information/educational standpoint and let them know that using a photo without permission is generally frowned upon and could present some legal difficulties for them (in general, not from you specifically) in the future. I would then see if you can come to terms for their next publication and get something in writing for terms to provide photos next time around.
Just kind of thinking out loud on this...
Good luck! :)
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01/08/2008 12:58:17 PM · #4 |
When I was in photojournalism, photos were often reused as "Staff Photos". Since you shot for the newsletter, they are simply keeping the photos as stock.
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01/08/2008 01:10:45 PM · #5 |
Robs, no I didn't give them any rights other than implicitly the right to publish them in that specific free newspaper as I was part of the PR team that put it together.
The publisher most certainly got paid for their work, the layouters and writers probably did it for free, it's an organization that's based mostly on volunteering.
glad2badad, they usually don't pay for the photographs, they just use stuff that gets sent in. They have used pictures of mine for their magazines in the past (which is fine as I sent them in for that purpose) but didn't give me credit for them, so I have already once complained and credit was given in the following issue. So you might say they have had a warning before.
fotomann_forever, I know what you mean with "Staff Photos". I work freelance for the country's major newspaper. The difference there being that between a a) newspaper and b) a book cover, and between a) getting paid for both the assignment and the re-print, and b) not being paid, not being asked, and not being told.
Right now I've asked them to send me the contact details of the person in charge of the publication. I don't know yet what to tell them. Right now I feel like sending them a 100€ invoice, as I'm growing tired of getting printed but not paid.
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01/08/2008 01:22:41 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by gloda:
as I'm growing tired of getting printed but not paid. |
Wish I had your problems. I have a hard time getting Walgreens to print my stuff and I have to pay them :-p
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01/08/2008 01:22:55 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by gloda:
The photograph in question was taken during a camp for the camp newspaper ... |
I think this is a key component to your question. At least under US copyright law, a photo taken while you were in the employ of another organization (even if working as a volunteer) would probably be considered a "work for hire" and as such, the copyright would be held by the organization, not the photographer. Of course, the law may be a little different in your location, but the principle may still apply.
Since you took it at their event, for the use of the organization, while performing other duties for them (not as a contractor hired specifically to take photos), they probably have the right to use it without payment.
I'd suggest that you express to them that you're proud they used your photo, but disappointed that you didn't get a photo credit, especially since they knew who took it. I don't think any money you'd get -- the stock fee for such a photo could range anywhere from $1-250 USD -- is worth ruining an otherwise good relationship. |
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01/08/2008 01:35:17 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by NstiG8tr:
Originally posted by gloda:
as I'm growing tired of getting printed but not paid. |
Wish I had your problems. I have a hard time getting Walgreens to print my stuff and I have to pay them :-p |
LOL! |
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01/08/2008 01:38:22 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
I'd suggest that you express to them that you're proud they used your photo, but disappointed that you didn't get a photo credit, especially since they knew who took it. I don't think any money you'd get -- the stock fee for such a photo could range anywhere from $1-250 USD -- is worth ruining an otherwise good relationship. |
Cool heads prevail. :) I think this is a good piece of advice; for anyone finding themselves in this scenario. |
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01/08/2008 01:42:37 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by NstiG8tr:
Originally posted by gloda:
as I'm growing tired of getting printed but not paid. |
Wish I had your problems. I have a hard time getting Walgreens to print my stuff and I have to pay them :-p |
Okay, I'm blaming you, NstiG8tr, for the coffee that just shot out my nose... |
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01/08/2008 01:46:10 PM · #11 |
| Yeah, it's a shame they didn't give you a photo credit. Not doing so just seems rude. Oh, well. I'm glad they liked the photo enough to use it! |
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01/08/2008 01:55:28 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by gloda:
I'm looking on some input on how to proceed on this. |
Hi Gilles - I hope you are well.
Unfortunately it is not easy to extract cash from NPOs - and you risk leaving quite a sour taste in your mouth if you try and push the matter for a few euros. I would definitely recommend picking up the phone to someone there and having a friendly chat - feel out what might be available if anything (future credit, money, future work etc) but I would not hope for too much. By phone you can adapt your approach on the fly to keep on the right side of them (impossible with written communications).
I would not press the copyright angle - it is just not worth getting high and mighty about rights for something like this.
In future, remember that if you want to make money from your images then the best way is to keep the high resolution originals private - practical solutions are more effective than legal ones with small matters like this.
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01/08/2008 01:56:24 PM · #13 |
If they had asked, would you have charged them? If so, it's probably fair to send an invioce, along with a letter explaining it.
If not, then I'd encourage you to consider a letter to the person in charge of the publication. In the letter, politely explain that while you are happy to work with organization to provide the use of your photos for free or at a discount, you do require that they contact you first to secure explicit permission, and to allow you the opportunity to negotiate terms, including proper credit, and, if appropriate, licensing fees. Consider also stating that you will not charge them for the use of your photograph this time, but that future use of your photos without permission will be billed at your full commercial rates for comparable use. Include an invoice with the letter, but mark it 'Donation - Paid in full'.
Just another avenue to consider.
~Terry
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01/08/2008 02:36:22 PM · #14 |
| GeneralE, Matthew and ClubJuggle, thanks for the advice, what you say seems reasonable to me. I guess I'll go for a friendly reminder that asking for permission is part of the game. They seem to have a general problem with this, the last magazine for instance copied entire pages from other books. |
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