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DPChallenge Forums >> Hardware and Software >> Using strobes with a 580EXII
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 11/01/2007 11:16:16 AM · #1
I've just been playing with the 580EXII as a master with the 430EX as slave and it's working great.

I then wanted to add a couple of Elinchrom (or any make really) strobe heads into the mix but I couldn't get it to work together.

I have the 580 and 430 on Manual to try and eliminate the pre-flash that I think is screwing everything up.

Here's what i'm trying and the results i'm getting:

580 on camera and 430 as slave backlight: Works perfectly

580 on camera, 430 slave backlight, Strobe head from side: Dark image

580 on camera, strobe to side: Dark Image

I assume this is because the pre flash is triggering the strobe, this is then affecting the metering and the strobe then isn't charged/triggered for the actual shot flash.

But I don't see why this is happening with the mode set to Manual as I didn't think this would need a pre-flash or do any metering?

I'm using a Canon 5D with no Flash Exposure compensation set in camera or on the flash guns.

Any ideas?

Message edited by author 2007-11-01 11:16:41.
 11/01/2007 12:33:05 PM · #2
So many ways this can go wrong. Have you tried metering each light? Do they all fire when you trip the shutter?

The small flash units may be firing with the strobe, but they are so underpowered compared to the strobe that their effect is insignificant.

Also, when using multiple flash units as Master/slave, they communicate, not by IR light, but by visible light and that may be what's triggering your strobe as well.

Is the slave trigger on your strobe set up as a digital slave? i.e. set to ignore the pre-flash? You might need to use a different slave on your strobe.

Try setting up the two flash units as you would when they work together and connect the strobe unit with a sync cable to the sync terminal on your camera.

11/01/2007 12:45:01 PM · #3
Don't Canon flashes use some sort of pre-flash to wirelessly trigger the flashes?

I suspect this is the issue. You might try getting some of the Cactus wireless triggers.
 11/01/2007 12:57:04 PM · #4
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Don't Canon flashes use some sort of pre-flash to wirelessly trigger the flashes?

I suspect this is the issue.


They do, and I suspect it may be the reason, but the OP had the same issue when using only the 580 and the strobe. Which should not happen unless the 580 was left in Master mode.
11/01/2007 01:04:36 PM · #5
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

I suspect this is the issue. You might try getting some of the Cactus wireless triggers.


yap, i'm using two cactus receivers with metz flashes to trigger my 200ws elinchrom strobe and it works perfect.

are you using them in bright light? because if so, the surrounding light might be too bright for the strobe to "notice" the flash from your slave(s).
also maybe try to use a sync cable with the strobe and see if that will result in both the slaves and the strobes to be fired. if not, then the sync time might be an issue, but what what di i know, i'm not using canon flashes... ;-)
 11/01/2007 01:16:32 PM · #6
Hi All,

thanks for the replies, I just tried it with the sync cable and switched off the optical slave on the strobe and it worked fine.

As soon as I then switch the optical slave back on I get the problem where only the flash gun is registering.

So it's definitely a preflash triggering the strobe too early for the shutter, but why am I getting a pre flash if my flash guns are in Manual mode?

Also in answer to Spazmo99's point, switching the 580exII out of Master mode also fixed the problem when only using that.

So I guess that the pre flash is to send the details to the other flash guns? Is there not a way to use this in complete manual mode and just trigger the other guns on the actual shutter flash?

11/01/2007 01:17:38 PM · #7
The only time I did this, I had the slave sensors turned off, with a pocket wizard transmitter plugged into the camera's sync port, with the Canon 580EX on top. That way, the 580 fired the Canon slaves, and the PW fired the strobes.

I used the PW's to avoid the pre-flash problem.
11/01/2007 01:17:39 PM · #8
The canon flashes use IR to fire the slave from the master. The preflash is used in ETTL to determine flash power. Unless I totally misunderstand the system. :D

The preflash will fire your strobes I have had that issue when using mine. I have since bought a wireless system to fire my strobes and have gotten the 580EXII and a sync cable and use it with it in manual mode.

MattO

ETA I'm going to attempt to use the wireless trigger system to fire the strobes and have the 580EXII fire my 580EXI with the master slave system. Not sure if it will or not, but this weekend I'm going to try.



Message edited by author 2007-11-01 13:19:42.
 11/01/2007 01:27:17 PM · #9
It sounds like that should work ok, it's only when the strobe are being triggered optically.

I was just hoping that the canon speedlites could just fire in fully manual mode but I guess they still transmit the power settings in the first pre flash or something?

Never mind thanks for the help and the work around
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