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09/24/2007 06:21:47 AM · #1 |
Hi guys,
I need to call upon the awesome collective brainpower of this forum for a few niggling problems I have. Allow me to explain:
I am now official photographer for a wrestling organisation called GPW and I'm doing pretty well. Taken about 800 pics so far and mostly pretty good. The guy wants to use these pics for posters, flyers, leaflets and all things paper based, plus with a view to make a yeabook sometime in the future once there is enough material from a wide enough time period. Now, the guy who runs this is a good friend of mine so i'm not bothered about being paid for it just yet because that will come with the increase in gate receipts and whilst nothing has been written and signed I trust the guy not to dick me over since I own whatever copyright exists since they are my pictures.
But, can I legally go around printing these pictures of the wrestlers and staff for use in fliers? Do I need them to sign a release clause stating they are willing to be pictured and printed and also to allow the pictures to be part of my personal portfolio?
Also, in a nutshell how do copyrights work? Do I own the rights to every picture since I took it and without me it would not exist?
I'm new to all this and have no idea about the quagmires and pitfalls of legal entanglement in this kind of arena. I want to do everything I can for this promotion but I need to get all the boxes ticked before I can do anything with it, and above all I do not want any of my work published anywhere without my prior agreement.
Any advice you can offer of any kind would be gratefully received as I know you are more knowledgable than I.
Thanks for your time,
Tez |
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09/24/2007 06:35:31 AM · #2 |
Originally posted by Tez:
I trust the guy not to dick me over since I own whatever copyright exists since they are my pictures. |
No. In business, trust nobody.
You can take that advise or leave it, but I've got 20 years experience of being screwed over. :) |
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09/24/2007 06:37:58 AM · #3 |
| Noted with thanks. So protecting my own ass is the name of the game... how does one do that? |
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09/24/2007 08:59:45 AM · #4 |
Originally posted by Tez:
Noted with thanks. So protecting my own ass is the name of the game... how does one do that? |
You write up a contract that say who is allowed to do what with the images. Basically, they will want the right to use the images for posters, fliers, whatever, promoting the wrestling organization and events. You want the rights to use the images for self-promotion.
You own the copyright to the images themselves, but they still control the use of their likeness.
Doing business with a friend without a written agreement is a good recipe for ruining a friendship. |
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09/24/2007 09:22:46 AM · #5 |
Thanks for the reply, any advice I can get is great, so thank you both.
In a contract do I need each individual wrestler to sign the contract saying I can use their likeness for my own ends?
Also, do you know where I can obtain a template from and just input the details I need? I don't want to write a document and have it hold no weight if push comes to shove as I have never had any experience with the legal side of all this. And is there another law for people under 18 as 1 or 2 of the guys are 16 or 17.
Sorry for all the questions but this is a big opportunity for continued work and I want to make it go right.
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09/24/2007 10:36:42 AM · #6 |
What are you shooting? Team pics, head shots, ads, etc or action-only or a combination?
Each wrestler agrees to something when the join the league and compete - a release of liability in case of injury if nothing else. So ask the league what papers the wrestler sign and what they say, if anything.
A ticket to a sporting event (or any other thing) has small print on it - the small print that keeps 'professional looking cameras' out :D amongst other things. What 'rules' does the league/org have, or the venues they compete in?
What is your agreement with the league/guy? Are you shooting for him, the league itself (one team, all teams, etc), parents/participants or what? Are you selling images to the parents/participants either onsite or on the web after? If you're selling images, do you pay a 'vendor fee' to the league? IF you shoot for the league, what do YOU get (pay, rights to sell images you take to the participants, etc).
Do you have exclusive rights/access to selling images or can anyone do it, or can the league let in another photographer to do it?
Answer those questions and we can go further.
Photo uses: Basically fall into 2 categories - editorial and commercial. Editorial is newspaper type stuff and no release is ever needed. Commercial is pretty much everything else and a release IS needed. Most players won't complain to have their pics used on the team's materials (programs, yearbooks, tickets, posters, etc) or for you to use them for your own promotion (framed images are never a problem - a billboard may be.). To sell t-shirts or the like you absolutely need a release.
If you need a contract go pay a lawyer.
First, that's the only legal thing to do (only lawyers can practice law although you can fill out a contract's blank lines). Second, if you ever NEED a contract it's cause someone broke the agreement and then the first thing either party does is run to a lawyer with contract in hand yelling 'HELP!'. It's too late then to discover you're homemade, found on the web, brother's advice contract isn't worth the paper it's printed on.
If it's not worth $100 or so to get a contract then the job probably isn't worth doing to begin with.
Message edited by author 2007-09-24 10:39:57.
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09/24/2007 11:04:55 AM · #7 |
If you really think this wrestling endeavor is going to be big, the best money you can spend is to have a lawyer draw up the contract for you. Doing business on a handshake just doesn't cut it. Make sure that you are not considered an at-will employee and that the photos are considered to be your property, not the property of the guy you may turn out to be working for.
If there's a law school near where you live, they may have a legal clinic that will help you at a much reduced rate. (Most of them seem to only do landlord-tenant and child support though.)
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09/24/2007 11:08:25 AM · #8 |
I think its kind of a crazy thing - because if you are employed by him, then dont the rights of the image expressly belong to the company, and therefore he can use them however he wants? I am going to assume that there is probably something in the fighters contracts as well that grants the rights to to be photographed, video taped, etc.
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09/24/2007 11:18:43 AM · #9 |
Thanks for the reply. I'll go through your post point-by-point if that's cool.
I'm shooting a mixture of everything. I go to the shows and the training and shoot what happens- individual shots, the dressing room stuff, the action shots, group shots... everything pretty much.
I am unaware that any of the guys signed any paperwork when they joined- its a weekend pursuit for a lot of them and not a career. I do know the manager has an insurance agreement with the training hall he uses and he has signed that, but beyond that I dont think anyone put pen to paper and signed a contract of any sort.
As for the venue the monthly shows are at: their rules seem pretty relaxed- i went there and met the manager their and told him I would be photographing for the organisation and he wasnt too bothered- they get plenty of parents snapping their kids having a good time but I'm the only 'pro' there per se.
As for the agreement- well, we've been friends a while and are both fans of WWE etc. I saw he had a company going through a friend of mine, contacted him to see if he needed any decent stuff doing and sent him the link to my profile page here. He said he liked it and could i go down. I went, took some pics, showed him what I had done and he loved them all. Beyond that I have been to one of their monthly shows and another training session and taken pics at both events. So it began on the premise of me 'helping him out', but since my pics are good enough for him to use in any capacity he deems fit I need some sort of remuneration setup to cover my expenses and above all, my work. So we have not come to any agreement regarding rates etc because my work has not been printed or used anywhere yet so i think I need a bit more thinking time.
I have exclusive rights only in the sense that he told me he wants me to be the photographer since i am reliable and pretty good at doing it, but again, nothing is concrete and/or signed for stating this.
As for the uses: well they will appear in newspapers to boost awareness as well as on signed 6x4s, posters, t-shirts and all the merchandising stuff you would associate with a wrestling organisation- DVD covers, big foam hands and all those things.
And to the kind others who took the time to help: I'm not technically employed by him since i'm not taking a wage- i suppose it is mutually benificial in the way that I get exposure (and hopefully some cash) and he gets damned good pictures.
The company at the moment barely makes enough money to break even and the manager himself takes nothing from it (he has a day job) so I didn't bullrush getting to numbers. But we both predict a sharp rise in sales of merchandise once my stuff hits the floor which is where the legal mumbo-jumbo would be apparent.
Sorry to bother you with all this, I feel as if i'm wasting your time but thank you all a great deal for writing what you have.
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