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08/20/2007 02:14:52 PM · #126 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by ajdelaware:
You are whacky. WHACKY!
You obviously have no sales experience, would that be a pretty correct assumption?
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I might be a bit whacky, but not when it comes to ethical behavior.
Your assumption about my sales experience is incorrect.
Fortunately, lying was not tolerated where I worked in sales.
It's salespeople that lie about things that give the profession a black eye. |
You are definitely confusing the issue.
Lying by making promises you can't keep, or by giving false expectations is different by far.
If I promised them 5 hours worth of shooting on top of the line equipment, and I am only there for 4 hours worth a shittly poitn and shoot - thats a black eye.
If I tell them that I gave Bride X a different rate because that day was in the off season, or we were running a pormotion that month, etc, then how is that bad?
The way a lot of you guys talk is that once you establish a rate, thats the rate you are stuck with for the rest of your career. |
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08/20/2007 02:41:12 PM · #127 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
The bride who got a "deal" does not live in a vacuum. She's going to tell all of her friends about how you usually charge $1000, but only charged her $500. Do you think they will want to pay $1000 for something she got for $500? What about the brides you've already booked for $1000? Do you think they'll be happy about paying $1000 for the same thing she paid $500 to get? Good luck with that. |
When the car you just bought goes on sale the next week for $2000 less than you contracted for, do you go back to the dealership and demand a refund of the "excess" amount you paid?
As technology changes and the pool of skiller workers grows, the worth of some skills will erode. D***, that's Captialism and the free market at work. Perhaps you'd prefer State Socialism or a feudal Guild system, where the number of providers and their prices are strictly controlled by the government?
BTW: This argument is entirely analogous to the Macro-stock vs Micro-stock one ... |
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08/20/2007 02:45:42 PM · #128 |
And when a bride asks you why you are charging her more then the big mouth bride, is it better to tell her "She didnt want to pay my regular fee so I gave her a discount" or to make up a good excuse like there was a special promotion that month, it was during the off season, or something similar to that?
If you opt for the first, then yeah, good luck not getting suck with the same rate you charged the first bride.
Message edited by author 2007-08-20 14:46:19. |
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08/20/2007 02:50:07 PM · #129 |
Originally posted by ajdelaware:
And when a bride asks you why you are charging her more then the big mouth bride, is it better to tell her "She didnt want to pay my regular fee so I gave her a discount" or to make up a good excuse like there was a special promotion that month, it was during the off season, or something similar to that?
If you opt for the first, then yeah, good luck not getting suck with the same rate you charged the first bride. |
If you give in to someone who doesn't want to pay your fee rather than walk away then maybe you need to rethink your rates or come up with a legit reason for applying a discount. Be consistent with the excuses. Bad press travels faster than good every time. |
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08/20/2007 02:52:23 PM · #130 |
I agree, if you constantly have to revamp your rates, then you should adjust. I also don't believe that any price list is firm. People like to think they are getting a deal, so let them bargain with you. A sale doesn't start until someone says "no".
But as I said previously, giving someone a discount because you don't have another job that day is better then sitting at home and not making any money that day because you refuse to bend.
Message edited by author 2007-08-20 14:53:20. |
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08/20/2007 03:01:29 PM · #131 |
To sum everything up:
Go take pictures and charge whatever you want. If you think you are ready, go for it. If you don't think you are ready don't go for it. If the bride and groom like em, thumbs up, if they don't like them, thats a bitch. Don't change your prices, unless you want to, then change your prices. Don't shoot unless you have the best glass thats available, unless you don't have it, if thats the case, go shoot anyway. Always ask for advice, but do not ask for advice always, and always follow that advice unless you dont want to, then thats ok too. Anybody see what Im saying? |
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08/20/2007 03:08:44 PM · #132 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
When the car you just bought goes on sale the next week for $2000 less than you contracted for, do you go back to the dealership and demand a refund of the "excess" amount you paid?
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I haven't bought a new car.....ever. They're overpriced.
I do know that if I buy a shirt or other item from a store and it goes on sale the next week, I can go back with my receipt and collect the difference.
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08/20/2007 03:16:15 PM · #133 |
| Well shit Spaz, why dont you just go write a how to book already, you obviously have an answer for everything that gets said, and its obvious that the only way to do it is yours. I can't wait to get my hands on the book, obviously if I do it your way, Ill become a millionaire with a used car. |
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08/20/2007 03:17:13 PM · #134 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
I do know that if I buy a shirt or other item from a store and it goes on sale the next week, I can go back with my receipt and collect the difference. |
Really? WOW. I'm, ummm, impressed. :-)
But, how about the price of gas to get back to the store or your time, are you really getting money back or is it just a principle thing? Am I thread-jacking my own thread?
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08/20/2007 03:18:52 PM · #135 |
| I love internet arguments, cause in the end, we are all losers anyway. |
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08/20/2007 03:21:44 PM · #136 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
I do know that if I buy a shirt or other item from a store and it goes on sale the next week, I can go back with my receipt and collect the difference. |
Really? WOW. I'm, ummm, impressed. :-)
But, how about the price of gas to get back to the store or your time, are you really getting money back or is it just a principle thing? Am I thread-jacking my own thread? |
Haha. What about the price of gas, if you buy on monday and it goes down on tuesday, do you drive back to demand the difference? |
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08/20/2007 03:22:47 PM · #137 |
Originally posted by ajdelaware:
I love internet arguments, cause in the end, we are all losers anyway. |
To be VERY un-PC... "Arguing on the Internet is like running in the Special Olympics... you may win, but you're still retarded." I know I'm gonna catch hell for that one, but I read it off a t-shirt.
BTW, I'm special... hehe
Edit: to correct a tard moment in grammar.
Message edited by author 2007-08-20 15:23:39.
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08/20/2007 03:24:44 PM · #138 |
I have a crappy attitude about my crappy attitude...
Stick it!
:-P
Message edited by author 2007-08-20 15:26:39. |
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08/20/2007 03:25:33 PM · #139 |
I can't help but weight in on this since I've been on the side of "friend photographer" and broke bride and groom :) When my wife and I were married 15 years ago we were what society might call "poor". Our wedding cost $25.00 and that was for the certificate. We had a beautiful wedding that was 100% done by friends and family. The setting was a pool bank in North Texas on the land I grew up on...flowers were wild that we picked ourselves, cake by mom, ceremony performed by my Uncle, music was provided by mom,dad and two great friends, Laurie's wedding dress was hand made by her grandmother, the reception was a fish fry done by some very dear friends. We couldn't afford invitations so if you knew we were getting married then you were invited..otherwise you weren't :) The photographer? You guessed it "the Uncle"...bless his heart he really did try :) We have 3 good pictures and a handful of snap shots. Sure I would love to have had a $10,000 photographer, or even a $500.00 or shoot even a $50.00 photographer! My dad always says "$5.00 isn't much money unless you don't have $5.00!"
Fast forward 13 years and I'm asked to photograph a friend's wedding. They can't afford much, the wedding is in our church (no cost), music is done by family, reception by family, etc. etc...I know that either I do the pictures and perhaps get a few good snapshots or they get another friend/relative to do it because they don't have the money. I of course did the wedding for them and they were very happy with the pictures. I spent hours and hours looking at magazines, surfing the Internet, and I did post to a forum asking questions and got BLASTED (not on DPC). I have done a total of 3 weddings for the same friends and for some reason they keep asking me to do it again :) I didn't charge anything, but they all gave me gifts for which I was greatly appreciative. I have turned down several weddings since (word of mouth) because personally I don't feel like I can deliver 100% guaranteed (mainly because I don't have backup equipment), but I wouldn't hesitate to do a $500.00 wedding for someone I knew really well and they knew what to expect from my photos (and I would borrow a 2nd body).
I know I've rambled on without saying much, but I just wanted to give my perspective. Sometimes "snapshot" documentary photographs can be a good thing for us "poor" folk. I would love it if every bride could have magazine quality artistic shots of her wedding (especially mine!), but here in the real world that just "aint gonna happen."
Great rant btw Leroy!
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08/20/2007 03:27:03 PM · #140 |
Originally posted by ajdelaware:
Well shit Spaz, why dont you just go write a how to book already, you obviously have an answer for everything that gets said, and its obvious that the only way to do it is yours. I can't wait to get my hands on the book, obviously if I do it your way, Ill become a millionaire with a used car. |
You, and everyone else, are free to do anything you want, anyway you want. Just don't complain when it doesn't work out or you get indicted for lying about things to your customers. |
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08/20/2007 03:30:28 PM · #141 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
I do know that if I buy a shirt or other item from a store and it goes on sale the next week, I can go back with my receipt and collect the difference. |
Really? WOW. I'm, ummm, impressed. :-)
But, how about the price of gas to get back to the store or your time, are you really getting money back or is it just a principle thing? Am I thread-jacking my own thread? |
It depends, it's probably not worth it for $1, but it sure is for a $300 price drop on a TV. Maybe you would rather eat the $300? |
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08/20/2007 03:31:49 PM · #142 |
I've had my own, non-photography business for just over five years now. You photographers are a bizzarre group.
1. On several occassions, different clients have paid me more than my going rate. At their insistence! And it's not chump-change either. I figure they want to stay higher on my priority list, and they feel it's worth it. The difference is that these are businesses, not people and families.
2. If I had no client on day X, and had an emergency call to work, my price would remain the same, or even be higher if it was next or same-day. Certainly not go down.
3. I hate salesmen. When I speak to clients I put myself in their shoes. I can't imagine being anything but totally honest! The extra energy and wear-and-tear it must take on someone's conscience to spin a web of lies, holy crap! In the end, all you have is your own integrity.
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08/20/2007 03:38:20 PM · #143 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
It depends, it's probably not worth it for $1, but it sure is for a $300 price drop on a TV. Maybe you would rather eat the $300? |
I would probably eat the $300. Going out of my way to give some poor underpaid customer service worker grief over something that is out of their control, just doesn't rank very high on my to-do list.
I don't expect anyone to pay for my lack of foresight.
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08/20/2007 03:40:02 PM · #144 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Originally posted by ajdelaware:
I love internet arguments, cause in the end, we are all losers anyway. |
To be VERY un-PC... "Arguing on the Internet is like running in the Special Olympics... you may win, but you're still retarded." I know I'm gonna catch hell for that one, but I read it off a t-shirt.
BTW, I'm special... hehe
Edit: to correct a tard moment in grammar. |
I was gonna say it, but I didn't want anyone to get their pink panties in a bunch.
AND SPAZ - indicted? Do you live in some crazy made up land?! |
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08/20/2007 03:40:39 PM · #145 |
| In America, you can seriously demand the price difference back if the item is reduced? |
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08/20/2007 03:44:50 PM · #146 |
Originally posted by SaraR:
In America, you can seriously demand the price difference back if the item is reduced? |
New one to me too :-)
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08/20/2007 03:45:17 PM · #147 |
After reading through the rant, (this one and many others on the topic of craigslist.com photography and similar) I can't help noticing that the photographers consider themselves special, above other professions, for some reason.
If you happen to have a problem with your PC, how often do you ask a friend before hiring an engineer/IT consultant to fix your problem? And that friend has probably had a computer a year longer than you did, or perhaps he has a dual-core machine with the latest Vista stuff on it. And maybe he has an answer for you - maybe your computer will work to your satisfaction after you apply his registry fix... then again, maybe not.
How is it different? Should I feel insulted that there are 1000s of people offering advice on how to network your two PCs at home, how to organize files, which wireless router to buy etc. In all those cases, your setup will work, and you will be happy. You may or may not get the optimal performance, but you would not care because you got it cheap.
Try any other profession/service, having a catering done by local pizza hut versus Renaissance or Four Seasons does not put either out of business.
The notion that having a bunch of low cost/low quality service people of any profession out there jeopardizes the business for the really good ones, is just false. If you are good, there will always be a job for you... you may just have to increase the budget for advertising to differentiate yourself from the others. |
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08/20/2007 03:47:21 PM · #148 |
And about my "lie to them" comment. I think im being slightly misinterpreted.
Don't lie to them about what you plan on delivering.
Don't tell them one price and then charge them more later.
Don't cancel a job because "your dog ate your camera"
These are horrible things to do to a person.
To tell them that you gave so and so this rate for a reason other then "I felt like it", that is hardly a bad thing, that is quite normal because its really none of their business why you charged who you charged what you charged.
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08/20/2007 03:48:23 PM · #149 |
Originally posted by SaraR:
In America, you can seriously demand the price difference back if the item is reduced? |
If it's within the store's return period, yes.
They'll just give you the difference to avoid you returning the item, then purchasing the same thing, new, at the lower price. That winds up costing the store even more since they have to deal with returning the original purchase. |
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08/20/2007 03:48:30 PM · #150 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Originally posted by SaraR:
In America, you can seriously demand the price difference back if the item is reduced? |
New one to me too :-) |
Some stores offer "price-matching" -- I think stores which sell matresses and auto parts are among the leaders in this field.
"If you find the same item advartised for a lower price within 30 days we'll refund the difference plus 5%" is a common line ... the trick is that, since many manufacturers make specific models only for certain retailers, you will never find the "identical" item at another store. |
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