Crappy attitude about wedding photography

08/20/2007 11:44:58 AM · #104

Originally posted by Jmnuggy:

Seriously attacking my spelling in a forum, this isn't 8th grade english. Besides that, you need to type quick to stay involved in this thread, no time for proofreading. HA HA.

Just messin' with ya... And yes, I know things get a little hectic sometimes in the threads. :-)

BTW, English is capitalized ;-)

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

08/20/2007 11:45:37 AM · #105

Originally posted by LoudDog:

So basically this is the micro-stock argument. Hobby shooters doing weddings cuts in on business and lowers prices, so the wedding photographers discourage the hobby shooters from doing it. Got it.

In a nutshell, yes.

Spork99

OM System OM-1

08/20/2007 11:50:26 AM · #106

Originally posted by Jmnuggy:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by ajdelaware:

Originally posted by BeeCee:
I just don't understand why it has to be all about the almighty dollar and squeezing every possible one out of everyone.

It doesnt. While being in business, of course the ultimate goal is to make a buck, but discretion is also key. If I normally charge $1000 (example) for a shoot, but I have a saturday that I cant fill on my schedule, if someone comes along and offers me a job for $500 that day, why not take it?! Its $500 that I would not have had otherwise. Right?

Because now you've devalued your services and you're now the $500 photogarpher and not the $1000 photographer you want to be and have sold yourself to be.

The bride who got a "deal" does not live in a vacuum. She's going to tell all of her friends about how you usually charge $1000, but only charged her $500. Do you think they will want to pay $1000 for something she got for $500? What about the brides you've already booked for $1000? Do you think they'll be happy about paying $1000 for the same thing she paid $500 to get? Good luck with that.

That is completely off base. he didn't devalue himself at all, he made a sale when there wouldn't normally have been one. Wedding venues offer discounted prices for Fridays and Sundays, are they devalueing themselves?

If he gets word of mouth advertising that it was a $500 gig instead of $1000, thats fine. I would just tell the next couple that they booked on a day that typically gets less traffic and made an offer, but unfortunately for the day you request, I have other offers so my price needs to stay at $1000. At least the phone rang.

The phone rang because the people calling are looking for the $500 "deal"

NVPhoto

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

08/20/2007 11:51:23 AM · #107

BeeCee,

Don't get me wrong here. I take emergency or last minute jobs for cheap prices. I did a wedding for $300 and 3 cases of beer. They booked me on a weds for a saturday gig. I had nothing going on and now my beer for Sunday was free.

When I book a normal wedding ie. 3-6 months in advance, I try to get all the money I can. Signing a contract is a happy agreement in which the couple believes they are getting a value for their dollar and Im happy becuase Im getting a good dollar for my services. I have no problem turning down the cheap weddings when they are booked so far in advance. I do this because I know I can book something more profitable given that much time.

NVPhoto

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

08/20/2007 11:55:37 AM · #108

Spaz,

It doesn't matter why someone calls looking for someones services, it just matters that they did. If I get someone on the line I have an opportunity to sell them. If they think they are automatically getting a $500 deal, they are mistaken. It is a no brainer to take a gig on short notice for a deal. That day was not going to get booked otherwise. I would much rather take $500 in my hand and a few calls looking for cheap weddings than nothing at all. Why would you assume after a cheap gig that the only calls I will get will be for more cheap gigs? Word of mouth is not the only way I generate calls. Very narrow minded thinking if you ask me. You like to disagree with me anyways on all things so I wouldn't expect this to be any different.

08/20/2007 11:56:18 AM · #109

Originally posted by Jmnuggy:

I have no problem turning down the cheap weddings when they are booked so far in advance. I do this because I know I can book something more profitable given that much time.

Me either, one because I know I will book another gig and two if it's far in advance I know they will find someone to shoot at the price they can afford. I also have no issue with turning them down if I feel they are just being cheap (but really could afford it), ie. don't expect me to shoot for cheap if you're driving a BMW.

Message edited by author 2007-08-20 11:57:10.

Melethia

Canon EOS-80D

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

08/20/2007 12:03:33 PM · #110

The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog.

But there's no "s".... where did the "s" go?

SaraR

Sony Alpha a7R III

Sony FE 24-70mm f/2.8 GM

08/20/2007 12:05:51 PM · #111

Originally posted by Melethia:

The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog.

But there's no "s".... where did the "s" go?

jumps,not jumped ;Â¬P

KaDi

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

08/20/2007 12:09:22 PM · #112

Originally posted by SaraR:

Originally posted by Melethia:
The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog.

But there's no "s".... where did the "s" go?

jumps,not jumped ;Â¬P

Now things are getting "tense"!
=O

Melethia

Canon EOS-80D

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

08/20/2007 12:10:19 PM · #113

Ah! Yes! Thanks. Was wondering about that. And thanks for your comment on my lovely 5.5 landscape entry as well. I do appreciate the score is about right for this crowd, but I'm also pleased that a few people like it. :-)

We now return you to whatever it was being discussed.

Canon EOS-20D

08/20/2007 12:13:09 PM · #114

In the end, advice is advice. If you don't like it, don't take it. If you ask for it, expect people to give it, not just tell you what you want to hear. Consider the source - if the person giving the advice is leading the sort of life you want to model yourself after, weight their advice more heavily. If they just enjoy acting like an expert on the internet with nothing to back it up, ignore it. If you're ready to quit your "dream" because you don't like the response one person gave you in a forum, you might question your own dedication. But really, it's all free and there for the taking or leaving so just do as you please and get on with it.

Melethia

Canon EOS-80D

08/20/2007 12:19:23 PM · #115

mk!!! Hi!

OK, now I will really quite threadjacking. Or quit, even.

Message edited by author 2007-08-20 12:19:42.

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

08/20/2007 12:30:37 PM · #116

My quick 0.02:

1) I've seen people get defensive about wedding photography on EVERY site I've been to. First, they are properly defending the bride and groom. Second, they are properly defending their own image and reputation. Lots of bad photogs makes it harder for the good ones to work.

2) IF you are going to shoot weddings my only requirements (IMO) are as follows:
A) Don't oversell yourself. If this is your first wedding, you tell them it's your first wedding.
B) Don't overcharge. If this is your first wedding, don't go online and ask what other photogs charge expecting you can get the same. Your charge reflects experience and skill. Even if you have skill, but no experience, I don't think you deserve as much.

08/20/2007 12:41:52 PM · #117

Spaz -

I think what you are missing is the fact that it is sales. Sales is bullshitting. You can be the best photog int he world, but if you suck at sales, you can sit at home with your really good pictures and dream.

A lot of the photogs ive met do not have any idea about sales in a broader sense of the word.

Yes, if I give Bride X a lower rate then other brides, then it may come to bite me in the ass later, but it will only bite me in the ass if I can't justify it to the future clients.

Or you can just flat out lie. There is nothing wrong with lying in sales. Nobody gets hurt by it. Its not hurting anyone, its the business. The key is to be smart about it, lie about things that can't be verified...how many inquiries you got for that date, personal circumstances, youre over head, etc.

Essentially we are all out to make the most money we can...thats why anyone goes into business.

But if its a matter of sitting on my ass cause I priced myself out of a situation and make nothing, or out shooting a wedding for $X then I usually charge, I am going to take the 2nd option.

Its not that I don't believe in myself to charge whatever, its because Some money is better then no money. I believe in my sales skills enough to be able to justify it to future clients if it comes up and to anyone else that asks.

And also, if youre phone is ringing off the hook because they heard about the great deal you gave someone, thats AWESOME. AMAZING. Because now you have these people who possibly wouldn't have called you otherwise, and they are giving you the chance to sell them. Yes they want the $500 package you sold their cousins roommates aunt, but you know what, you tell them about the strength of that package (never shoot down your own product) but play up the next package (if you don't have a "published" price sheet and package list, they never know), and talk about how you had so many great photos and how hard it was to pick the X amount for the $500 package. Little upsell techniques will help you get that higher price.

Message edited by author 2007-08-20 12:46:30.

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

08/20/2007 12:45:53 PM · #118

(PS I LOVE SALES TALK)

Message edited by author 2007-08-20 12:46:22.

Spork99

OM System OM-1

08/20/2007 01:00:08 PM · #119

Originally posted by ajdelaware:

Or you can just flat out lie. There is nothing wrong with lying in sales. Nobody gets hurt by it. Its not hurting anyone, its the business.

Well, it's good to know where you stand on ethics.

Nothing like starting out a business relationship based on lies.

Canon EF 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO IS USM

08/20/2007 01:05:52 PM · #120

You are whacky. WHACKY!

You obviously have no sales experience, would that be a pretty correct assumption?

I think all photogs should get a sales job at some point in their life. 2 years worth for me, and I could probably sell photos to a blind man now.

Nothing is ever set in stone, EVER. Prices are starting points, its up to you which way they are going to go from there, and its really a matter of how much bullshit you can sling.

cpanaioti

Canon EOS-40D

08/20/2007 01:17:07 PM · #121

I smell a used car salesman in our midst.

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

08/20/2007 01:30:10 PM · #122

Originally posted by mk:

Really good advice. Perhaps some of the best advice ever given at DPC :-)

Spork99

OM System OM-1

08/20/2007 01:37:54 PM · #123

Originally posted by ajdelaware:

You are whacky. WHACKY!

You obviously have no sales experience, would that be a pretty correct assumption?

I might be a bit whacky, but not when it comes to ethical behavior.

Your assumption about my sales experience is incorrect.

Fortunately, lying was not tolerated where I worked in sales.

It's salespeople that lie about things that give the profession a black eye.

08/20/2007 01:43:10 PM · #124

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