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08/16/2007 03:39:23 PM · #51 |
I agree with all of the above. I have an MDA, Masters of Deceptive Arts and a BSG, Bachelors of Sale Gimmicks.
No it's not really a gimmick, it is a real product. I do agree that the idea is nice. And also that SC should initiate it and have the profits go to some Freshman in Photography Majors. |
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08/16/2007 03:53:29 PM · #52 |
"And also that SC should initiate it and have the profits go to some Freshman in Photography Majors."
What a coincidence, I start classes in September.
arthur_sullivan@msmary.edu is my paypal account, feel free to buy my school books <3 |
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08/16/2007 04:01:12 PM · #53 |
I think (with all do respect) people should perhaps lean back and take a breather. So your making a book thats awesome im down with it. As for all the rest simply comes down to this if a photographer agrees, be it a smart move or otherwise, then go nuts! thats just my 2 cents. I say good luck with all your endevors! Personally if you wanted my pieces (lol which Im sure you dont! haha) I would simple say either yes or no, if yes Id fax you a contract if your cool with it, Then I am loving it! haha have a good day all!
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08/16/2007 04:15:08 PM · #54 |
i think this photographer is a genius! ALL his shots should be in the book as far I'm concerned....
(sorry i had to make this post before Art Roflmao did) |
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08/16/2007 04:24:59 PM · #55 |
Originally posted by smardaz:
i think this photographer is a genius! ALL his shots should be in the book as far I'm concerned....
(sorry i had to make this post before Art Roflmao did) |
Oh I see what you did there. Is this one of those new humor jokes that I read about last week in Readers Digest? |
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08/16/2007 04:49:02 PM · #56 |
Originally posted by chinpaca:
...and grigrigirl, holy cow, cool down. You've obviously never seen a book published in Heritage Makers, and if you had any idea of what the purpose was, you'd just go on your merry way...
...This is a typical reponse from someone who does not want people to be able to publish their own books...
...Comission is 20%. If you are familiar with publishing, then you know that book stores are ordering in the thousands and millions of copies, and so that accounts for the lower prices on books.....69.95 for a 1 off is awesome. I've stated my purpose. If you have legitimate questions or concerns, please post them in the thread. If you just want to attack, take a kick boxing class or something...
Chinpaca |
I have been watching this thread for a while and remained quiet until now. You have complained in a later post about people not being respectful and using "slash and burn tactics on someone's character". And yet YOU (a newcomer to DPC) replied earlier with personal attacks to some very legitimate concerns that  grigrigirl (a well-respected DPC old-timer) and others had about this project. There was no full disclosure of your personal financial interests in this project from the get go and they only came about after grigrigirl asked about it. Call me a cynic but you are not helping your cause in fostering any trust in you or your project.
Message edited by author 2007-08-16 16:52:48.
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08/16/2007 04:53:06 PM · #57 |
I think we are all missing the point and the most important thing in this thread:
"And also that SC should initiate it and have the profits go to some Freshman in Photography Majors."
What a coincidence, I start classes in September.
arthur_sullivan@msmary.edu is my paypal account, feel free to buy my school books <3
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08/16/2007 04:57:39 PM · #58 |
I'm struck by the strong opinions in this thread. Seems to me that it is between Chinpaca and individual photographers. If they want their pics in the book then say yes. If they don't then say no. If they want a contract then sign a contract. If they want a lawyer then get a lawyer. I personally feel like all of the hostility towards Chinpaca was/is uncalled for. If anyone else out there feels like a book should be created for some other purpose or charity or celebration then you are free to make your own book. Otherwise, a book between Chinpaca and DPC photographers is none of your business even if you are a member of DPC (unless you area potential photographer with a picture in the book).
Originally posted by grigrigirl:
I have received a PM that my image has been selected for the best of book. I would like to publicly decline the right for my image to be used.
I would also like people to be informed about the choices they make. I dont come out of hiding very often, but after more research, I have formed the following argument...
1) poor quality albums. The talent and beauty of the best of the best dpc entries deserve high end, high quality presentation. Not something that looks cheaper than what we can order on shutterfly. After looking at the book publisher website, I do not see how this book can be worth $70. Do you even pay that much in a book store? How many pages will this book have in it for $70..what is the print quality? The printing process? You are using resized images from the web? WHAT???
2) Exactly what is this publishing company? The business model reminds me of a pyramid scheme. You have to purchase a membership and then purchase points to create a book. The website does not give info on the price of points or an ultimate price on the cost of books. In order to do this, you must become a member through a representative. They also encourage you to become your very own representative and sell this book publishing gimmick to others. I imagine if you want to succeed, you will need to attend a lot of trade shows etc...with sample books. I cant even find specs on the website about paper quality. It is one thing to have to prove your a professional photographer in order to use certain labs and album companies. Your company is not of professional quality..at all.
3) blanket statement of giving the right to have the image printed in your book and the photographer receives credit. Alright, now you have the right to make sample books for trade shows.
4) Argument that you deserve to be paid for your design time. Yes, this could be true...BUT...you would probably design an album for your own use at a trade show anyway. And then you get to make money off of the photographers that buy the book for an over inflated price. If we can go to shutterfly and buy a book for $20 to $50 RETAIL to consumers. What exactly IS your cost? Seems like a heap of profit to me if you get enough orders...plus the fact that your books will be soooo much better looking with great photography printed within. You could probably distract potential book buyers and future representatives from the books actual lack of quality in materials by dazzling them with pretty images.
5) you are not a very active member of the site. I find it hard to believe you are doing this for the warm fuzzy feelings. This is a community of well meaning people who are open and willing to help each other learn. And yes, I do feel that you are trying to exploit them. I am well aware of how the world turns by now.
6) Sorry fellow DPC peeps...I am not trying to rain on your parade..at all. I just whole heartedly feel there is such a better way to do this. A way that will make you the photographer look better as well!
I think the SC could hire out the book project, handle it themselves or get fellow dpc'ers to donate their time to create a yearly best of book of professional quality, with image details, photographer credits etc. Make the book available for purchase to the public at large. Cover your cost for design time, materials etc and then donate any profit to a different cause each year. Perhaps people can vote on the charity to be used each year. Something like this needs to be handled by people that we can all trust. It should be a site project...a site celebration..and even a way to do a little good in the world while getting more exposure for the photographers. For a book like this, I would certainly pay. I would be willing to have my images in it, i would be willing to pay a high end price and i would feel good about doing it. No selfish motives involved. Something that is created with a desire to help not only this community, but to better the world in whatever teeny tiny ripples we can manage to spread by beautiful works of art and charitable contributions. |
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08/16/2007 05:08:20 PM · #59 |
Originally posted by 2hoo:
I'm struck by the strong opinions in this thread. Seems to me that it is between Chinpaca and individual photographers. If they want their pics in the book then say yes. If they don't then say no. If they want a contract then sign a contract. If they want a lawyer then get a lawyer. I personally feel like all of the hostility towards Chinpaca was/is uncalled for. If anyone else out there feels like a book should be created for some other purpose or charity or celebration then you are free to make your own book. Otherwise, a book between Chinpaca and DPC photographers is none of your business even if you are a member of DPC (unless you area potential photographer with a picture in the book).
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Perhaps you should read the original post.
Originally posted by Chinpaca:
Does any one have any issues with this? I think it'll be awesome. |
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08/16/2007 05:19:55 PM · #60 |
Originally posted by keegbow:
Originally posted by 2hoo:
I'm struck by the strong opinions in this thread. Seems to me that it is between Chinpaca and individual photographers. If they want their pics in the book then say yes. If they don't then say no. If they want a contract then sign a contract. If they want a lawyer then get a lawyer. I personally feel like all of the hostility towards Chinpaca was/is uncalled for. If anyone else out there feels like a book should be created for some other purpose or charity or celebration then you are free to make your own book. Otherwise, a book between Chinpaca and DPC photographers is none of your business even if you are a member of DPC (unless you area potential photographer with a picture in the book).
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Perhaps you should read the original post.
Originally posted by Chinpaca:
Does any one have any issues with this? I think it'll be awesome. |
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THANK YOU!
The OP initiated a dialogue by writing this and that's exactly what she got despite our perception of what's been posted since then.
Message edited by author 2007-08-16 17:26:56.
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08/16/2007 05:33:52 PM · #61 |
| I've read the original post and subsequent posts. I stand by what I said. It seems many posts are more along personal attacks than "issues" |
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08/16/2007 05:56:50 PM · #62 |
Originally posted by 2hoo:
I've read the original post and subsequent posts. I stand by what I said. It seems many posts are more along personal attacks than "issues" |
If there is any personal attacks then I believe SC will deal with it or if you like you should report the post.
Basically it comes down to the semantics of your definition of what constitutes an âissueâ.
I see no problem with any member contributing to the thread as was encouraged in the original post.
This is not a discussion that is solely the domain of potential contributors to the book as you have suggested.
I think we need to agree to disagree.
edit: spelling
Message edited by author 2007-08-16 17:59:45. |
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08/16/2007 06:47:58 PM · #63 |
i told ya. with 5 beers behind :-)
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08/16/2007 08:28:59 PM · #64 |
I don't have a problem with people stating their issues. Grigrigirl did not just "state her issues", but went on to trash both the publisher, and me. I took offense. There's no need. I felt that she was coming on pretty hot, and that it was inappropriate. Not the stating of her issues, but of her heat. Oh BTW--docotrnick, you're suppose to note that you added the bold text when you quoted my post.
How long do you have to be here before you are off the newbie list? I've been here for well over a year! :) How long has DPC been around?
I am really tired of time irreplacable being wasted. The genuine issues I accept, and as stated earlier, I will get that practicum and, well, what would be the right term for it, article of protection? I'm not sure, as I've never done a book like this. I usually work with the regular joe, and their pictures are from the 70's and earlier, so yah, I do alot of resizing for my 86 year old clients.
This thread has been a definate learning experience. I absolutely welcome issues that would be involved with this project. Being an "old timer" doesn't give anyone the excuse to be rude. Once again, stating an issue and going after character are two different things. When I say I am tired, I really mean it today. I am tired. Sleepy. I have major projects that I am behind on because whenever I come to my computer the
past two days I come straight here to see what's going on (yes, my own idiocy revealed!), then take too much time reading, or now posting, and reading, and re-reading my post to make sure I'm not sounding incoherant, which is how I feel today.
So, no more comments from me about the "issue" issue. If you have a new issue, bring it up! But please remember and respect that this topic is not about "issues", but actually a place for people to post their favorites, that they would like to see in a book.
Off to the shower and to feed my poor hungry children!
Chin
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08/16/2007 09:10:50 PM · #65 |
I think the only issue in this thread is that an idea that originally started off at Chin making a book for her coffee table, to deciding to make this book available to DPC, and all along leaving out that she will profit off of it. I think that is and was the only issue.
I dont understand why she would want to profit off of it when she was making the damn book anyway for herself, its not like its going to be extra work on her part to make it for other people.
And again...
arthur_sullivan@msmary.edu - thats where you guys can paypal some of the $70 you were gonna use to buy that book, so I can buy school books, so I can beat anyone on here with knowledge. |
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08/16/2007 09:25:37 PM · #66 |
Originally posted by chinpaca:
Oh BTW--docotrnick, you're suppose to note that you added the bold text when you quoted my post. |
Is this a rule written somewhere? If so I'm guilty of breaking it QUITE often. Oh and I did not add the bold part above. |
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08/16/2007 09:29:25 PM · #67 |
Originally posted by _eug:
Originally posted by chinpaca:
Oh BTW--docotrnick, you're suppose to note that you added the bold text when you quoted my post. |
Is this a rule written somewhere? If so I'm guilty of breaking it QUITE often. Oh and I did not add the bold part above. |
That's a pretty standard rule in any kind of writing.
A reader is going to attribute anything between the quote tags to the quoted author. Changing emphasis can be misleading, so if you do it, an (emphasis added) or (emphasis mine) note immediately following the quote is standard.
~Terry
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08/16/2007 09:33:17 PM · #68 |
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Originally posted by _eug:
Is this a rule written somewhere? If so I'm guilty of breaking it QUITE often. |
That's a pretty standard rule in any kind of writing.
A reader is going to attribute anything between the quote tags to the quoted author. Changing emphasis can be misleading, so if you do it, an (emphasis added) or (emphasis mine) note immediately following the quote is standard. |
Huh. I often use it and see it used to point to something specific that is being addressed. Oh well. |
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08/16/2007 10:22:47 PM · #69 |
This is the only blue ive tagged as a fav so far  by naomik
that one or anything by  scalvertdeserves to be in there |
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08/17/2007 12:30:14 AM · #70 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
I'm confused now. 4th popular picture on the site and I didn't get asked :( |
4th? Perhaps you're a little out of touch there, Gordon. hehehe
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08/17/2007 12:34:31 AM · #71 |
Originally posted by Mr_Pants:
Originally posted by Gordon:
I'm confused now. 4th popular picture on the site and I didn't get asked :( |
4th? Perhaps you're a little out of touch there, Gordon. hehehe |
i think he is talking about how many favs it has not the score. :) |
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08/17/2007 12:35:45 AM · #72 |
Originally posted by jdannels:
Originally posted by Mr_Pants:
Originally posted by Gordon:
I'm confused now. 4th popular picture on the site and I didn't get asked :( |
4th? Perhaps you're a little out of touch there, Gordon. hehehe |
i think he is talking about how many favs it has not the score. :) |
Oh bother, there goes my little bit of amusement, then.
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08/17/2007 03:12:29 AM · #73 |
I've been asked to allow one of my images to be published in this book. I have to decline on a number of grounds:
1. Once published in this way the image may be ineligible for further use in competition or may reduce the commercial saleability of the image at a future date.
2. The image is already published elsewhere and further publication may infringe the publication rights.
3. The Heritage Makers outfit is a North American organisation and doesn't appear to make its books available world wide, I only see shipping to US on the website. I'm based in the UK.
4. I haven't seen any evidence or discussion about the copyright terms, usage terms or any other 'publication rights' normally associated with a publication of a photograph. This worries me A LOT! (emphasis added by me).
So unfortunately none of my images will be appearing in this publication. Sorry, but thank you for the nomination.
Message edited by author 2007-08-17 03:14:47.
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08/17/2007 06:52:55 AM · #74 |
Site Council has decided to lock this thread, and place forum discussion of this project "on hold".
Historically, we have allowed latitude for established participants to advertise charitable events and photography-related products on the forums. Likewise, we have a great deal of respect for photographers' ownership of their photographs, and their rights to license them (or not) as they see fit.
We continue to stand behind those philosophies, but feel that in order for these philosophies to be effective, there needs to be a level of transparency sufficient to allow all stakeholders to make a fully informed decision whether to participate. For similar past projects, this need for transparency has not been an issue. In this case, however, we believe that some vital information has not been freely released.
This message and thread-locking should not be taken as a statement as to whether this is, or is not, a worthwhile project in which to participate. We believe that is a decision to be made individually be each potential participant for himself or herself. We offer no opinion as to whether anyone should release their photographs for this purpose, nor to whether anyone should purchase the book. This lock should not be taken as a condemnation of the project itself, nor should an eventual decision to allow it to continue be considered an endorsement.
That said, we do expressly reserve the right to disallow the use of DPChallenge to further this project at any time, for any reason. Most likely, we would do this only if it became evident that participants were not being provided fair and accurate information.
~Terry
On behalf of Site Council
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