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DPChallenge Forums >> General Discussion >> Snake ID please! Warning Graphic Content
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Showing posts 26 - 38 of 38, (reverse)
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08/10/2007 11:40:06 AM · #26
Originally posted by kenskid:

By your own work you show that venom is injected. Seems Webster put in broadly : material that is poisonous. Notice the word BROADLY. I feel webster put that in to make EVERYONE correct in layman's conversation on poison vs venom.

Webster's definition is much like the kids soccer match or baseball game where "we don't keep score, because we are all winners"...

Originally posted by Gatorguy:

Originally posted by drewbixcube:

I don't mean to be a dick, but it's venomous...not poisonous. As far as ID...that is about as close as I will get to a snake, so I'm no help.


Sorry, but venom is just a further refinement describing the type of poison it is, irregardless of the delivery method. Venom is a type of poison. Formaldehyde does not become venom if someone injects it into your arm. Venom does not change to poison if you swallow it and it is absorbed into your system via open ulsers. Both the people who refer to it as venom and the people who call it poison are correct. Herpetology 101.

From Merrium Webster:
Main Entry: 1ven·om
Pronunciation: \ˈve-nəm\
Function: noun

1: poisonous matter normally secreted by some animals (as snakes, scorpions, or bees) and transmitted to prey or an enemy chiefly by biting or stinging; broadly : material that is poisonous
2: ill will, malevolence

Yes, you are being a dick ;)


I guess you're not understanding what I'm writing. The act of injection (the delivery) is NOT what defines a poison as venom.
All venom is poison. Not all poison is venom.
venom = poison that is produced by venomous animals.

I am very involved in the field of herpetology and one of my associates is a nationally recognised toxicologist specializing in snake venom. We have also had this discussion and agree that venom is a type of poison and that someone referring to a snake as poisonous is not wrong.

I frequently have this argument with lay people. Same as the one where people say tortoises are not turtles, when in fact, they are.

Message edited by author 2007-08-10 11:59:04.
08/10/2007 11:51:46 AM · #27
Oh, brother. They're called poisonous snakes everywhere, so why worry about being so picky?

Now, getting back to the snake at hand: Ken, did you take any pictures closer up, particularly of the head? My understanding is that, to avoid further argument, I'll call "thems that sticks ya with sharp pointy hollow thangs that dumps crud into ya that hurts a lot and might even kill ya" snakes have very well-defined, triangular heads, while the ones that don't, don't.

Looking at the big pic of the banded watersnake, it seems like it has alternating triangles in its stripes, while the one you showed seemed to have straight sides to its stripes. But I don't know male vs. female, and it's hard to see much detail in the only pic you provided.
08/10/2007 11:53:52 AM · #28
LOL @ the arguments that pop up here.
08/10/2007 11:57:17 AM · #29
Originally posted by rswank:


Pretty funny that a definition is quoted while using the non-word "irregardless ".


OK, fair enough - regardless. Even though (as I'm sure you know) it's use is controversial in modern language.

If being the resident grammar police is what floats your boat, please enjoy yourself at my expense, you will find plenty of opportunities.

But what's REALLY funny is the attempted ad hominem attack. Cheap and unwarranted.
08/10/2007 12:16:09 PM · #30
Originally posted by Gatorguy:

From Merrium Webster:
Main Entry: 1ven·om
Pronunciation: \ˈve-nəm\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English venim, from Anglo-French, from Vulgar Latin *venimen, alteration of Latin venenum magic charm, drug, poison; akin to Latin venus love, charm — more at win
Date: 13th century
1: poisonous matter normally secreted by some animals (as snakes, scorpions, or bees) and transmitted to prey or an enemy chiefly by biting or stinging; broadly : material that is poisonous
2: ill will, malevolence

Ah, yes...venom is a poison, but that is venom the noun...I was speaking of venomous and poisonous the adjectives. Snakes are not poisonous; you can eat them without becoming ill. They are venomous; if they transmit their poisonous venom to your body, you will become ill. Lead is poisonous, not venomous (if you eat lead based paint you will become ill). I was simply calling out a common nomenclature mishap...like Canadian Geese, it's Canada Geese, unless they have passports proving they indeed are citizens of Canada :p

Originally posted by Gatorguy:

Yes, you are being a dick ;)

Now I am :p
08/10/2007 12:18:14 PM · #31
So, certain species of frogs are poisonous, because you can't eat them without getting ill or dying. But, they don't inject poison, so they are not venomous. Makes sense to me.

Message edited by author 2007-08-10 13:17:26.
08/10/2007 12:19:27 PM · #32
Bingo, bango, bongo!

Message edited by author 2007-08-13 10:12:46.
08/10/2007 03:49:06 PM · #33
Originally posted by Gatorguy:

Originally posted by rswank:


Pretty funny that a definition is quoted while using the non-word "irregardless ".


OK, fair enough - regardless. Even though (as I'm sure you know) it's use is controversial in modern language.

If being the resident grammar police is what floats your boat, please enjoy yourself at my expense, you will find plenty of opportunities.

But what's REALLY funny is the attempted ad hominem attack. Cheap and unwarranted.


"If being the resident grammar police is what floats your boat"
Not at all.
I just thought it was funny that you get all technical with posting a definition complete punctuation etc. and use "irregardless".
You are cracking me up getting all defensive.
I'm sorry if you take my one sentence post a "cheap and unwarranted attack".
That also made me chuckle, so thanks for making me smile! :D
08/10/2007 04:43:31 PM · #34
Originally posted by rswank:

Originally posted by Gatorguy:

Originally posted by rswank:


Pretty funny that a definition is quoted while using the non-word "irregardless ".


OK, fair enough - regardless. Even though (as I'm sure you know) it's use is controversial in modern language.

If being the resident grammar police is what floats your boat, please enjoy yourself at my expense, you will find plenty of opportunities.

But what's REALLY funny is the attempted ad hominem attack. Cheap and unwarranted.


"If being the resident grammar police is what floats your boat"
Not at all.
I just thought it was funny that you get all technical with posting a definition complete punctuation etc. and use "irregardless".
You are cracking me up getting all defensive.
I'm sorry if you take my one sentence post a "cheap and unwarranted attack".
That also made me chuckle, so thanks for making me smile! :D


If posting a definition directly from a dictionary to help someone understand a point is "all technical" then OK, guilty as charged. I'm guessing anytime anyone includes sources to support an arguement it is also "all technical" to you. To each his own, I guess.

Defensive - not even close. But I have to say, I can't for the life of me figure out your stake in this, or why in the world you would even want to throw your two-cents in.

Why is it that my simply trying to help someone brings out the wrath of the internet chest-beaters?

You are apparently easily amused. Glad I could help. I guess.

I'm done with this.

Message edited by author 2007-08-10 16:56:08.
08/10/2007 05:22:39 PM · #35
So, did we ever figure out what kind of snake it was????
08/10/2007 05:26:51 PM · #36
I'm leaning towards Diamondback Watersnake.

Originally posted by vxpra:

So, did we ever figure out what kind of snake it was????
08/10/2007 08:12:32 PM · #37
Originally posted by kenskid:

I'm leaning towards Diamondback Watersnake.

Originally posted by vxpra:

So, did we ever figure out what kind of snake it was????


It's definitely a diamondback or southern water snake. The top of the body (if I'm seeing it correctly) does have the features of a diamondback more than the latter. Either way, it's definitely not a cottonmouth or any type of pit viper for that matter.

Water snakes are the meanest damned snakes on the planet. I have never seen one with any type of decent demeanor. Hard to pick one up without getting a good bite.

This is a shame.

Message edited by author 2007-08-11 00:54:57.
08/19/2007 12:56:30 PM · #38
It is not a cottonmouth/water moccasin. Large moccasins retain little of the pattern visible when they are juveniles. It is possibly a diamondback watersnake - non-venomous. A shame it was run over.

See links:
//www.kingsnake.com/louisiana/species_diamondback_water_snake.htm
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