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06/24/2007 06:10:41 PM · #1 |
I've been wanting to get this off my chest for awhile now. Not a rant, just a point of view.
I frequently see posts from somebody who has just commented (or is just about to) on all the photos in a challenge. My first reaction is usually, "Good, you're helping folks improve." But then I see the comment they made on my photo, I wonder about the quality and thoughtfulness of the rest of their comments.
If I were to comment on a 600 entry Free Study, for example. I believe it would take me about 5 minutes per photo ... to see it, think of a helpful or constructive comment, type it in, correct my typos, and save the comment. 600 entries x 5 minutes = 3,000 minutes. That requires commenting 7 hours per day, every day the voting continues.
Based on some of the comments I've received from some of these 100%-ers, I'm pretty sure they didn't spend 5 minutes on their comment on my photo. Maybe they spent a minute, probably less. Even this takes a lot of time.
So let me offer a suggestion. Assuming these commentors actually spent a minute a photo ... I would rather they took the same amount of time, and gave 5 minute comments to 20% of the photos in the middle of the pack. Constructive comments that could help the photog go from a 5 to a 6, say.
If all the 100%-ers (and you know who you are) did this each time they felt a comment jag coming on, it would certainly raise the quality of photos here in DPC land.
What do you say we try it once?
The commentors can identify themselves here. Or maybe commentors could put a little tag in their comment, [5mc] say, signifying the 5 minute comment. And they and the commentees can relate their experiences here.
Or if you don't want to try it, at least, next time you get ready to comment 100%, make sure they are constructive 100%.
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06/24/2007 06:24:14 PM · #2 |
Are you sure this isnt a rant?
Firstly as I see it, their is two sides to this 100% commenting, one yes is for the photographer, the person who may just get a kick out of hearing that someone liked their photo, we are not all experts and giving out advice on lighting, noise or composition may not be with in our skill set. So giving out advice in that vein would be imposible.
Secondaly the commentators also get an advantage from going through this exercise, infact it is the best way to learn imo. Also the few extra seconds that someone took on your photo is a few more than over a hundred others didnt.
Perhaps getting a few comments on your photo that you can look at and say no more than, 'thats nice' are quite ok |
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06/24/2007 06:27:28 PM · #3 |
There is no rule that says comments need to be "constructive". Comments are usually simply comments. And I seriously doubt that anyone takes 5 minutes to write a comment, even a detailed constructive one.
If I have left a comment on one of your photos that you don't think is constructive, thoughtful or a quality comment, please let me know and I will gladly remove it so it doens't offend you any more than it already has.
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06/24/2007 06:31:06 PM · #4 |
Not tooting my own horn...and I completely understand where you are coming from DQ...but,I left not one comment that wasn't constructive...even if I didn't care for the photograph. If I didn't, I told them why and if I knew what to do to fix it (IMO), I mentioned that as well. Some of us have had to do this over the process of the entire week as it DOES take hours to go through, look at and constructively comment on each photograph.
You will not see "5", "don't like it", "Nice shot" from me in general. There were some that I thought were not so great and I had absolutely no idea what to do to fix them, but their negative space was good and I mentioned that. (Only a couple of photos.) Not what some would consider helpful, but when you just can't figure out how to make it more appealing, what do you do?
I agree that getting a couple of word comments doesn't help you improve, rather they are just a "blurb".. I, too, need to improve, so I am handing out what I hope to get from others.
Getting a "WOW, like this" or even "great shot" does help me as it confirms the other comments I get and let's me know that it appealed to someone.
Be happy that people spent the time to comment.
By the way, yours was wonderful!! (I have no clue which one was yours, rofl!!! You got a comment if it was in Neg. Space.) ;P
Message edited by author 2007-06-24 18:35:00. |
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06/24/2007 06:44:39 PM · #5 |
| So who are you to say if a comment I left on someone else's image was not constructive? |
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06/24/2007 06:46:10 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by KarenNfld:
There is no rule that says comments need to be "constructive". Comments are usually simply comments. And I seriously doubt that anyone takes 5 minutes to write a comment, even a detailed constructive one.
If I have left a comment on one of your photos that you don't think is constructive, thoughtful or a quality comment, please let me know and I will gladly remove it so it doens't offend you any more than it already has. |
No, there's no rule, and yes, not every comment *must* be a thoughtful, quality comment. However, to get *personally* offended that someone wants people to stop and think about how they are commenting, and maybe not rush into trying desperately to "comment 100%" and believe that it is some heroic deed.. is a little bit over-board, don't you think?
Personally, I agree whole-heartedly with the OP.
600 comments of "I love this" and "Great shot" and "I don't like it much" can't even *begin* to compare to 100 comments that go into at least *SOME* detail. If all a person *is* doing is leaving comments like the examples above, then please.. I would urge that person to let go of whatever false sense of accomplishment leaving 100% comments is giving you, and focus more on 40% comments that are 100% effective. |
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06/24/2007 06:49:43 PM · #7 |
Don't you think people bitching about comments is pushing people away?
Message edited by author 2007-06-24 18:50:54. |
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06/24/2007 06:49:47 PM · #8 |
Hmmmm!! Okay  Dr.Confuser, I have just gone through your last 50 comments...dating back to 12 April 2007. I started the Commenters Club on 7 June 2007. Since I started the Commenters Club, the following comments have been received by YOU and were given by the COMMENTERS within that club.
Are they really that bad...or as my OP on the Commmenters Club thread states...are you full of wind?
Please note...that over 7000 comments have been made in the last 4 weeks by 16 people. And of the 50 of your received comments, only 6 of them are from the Commenters Club members. So how about stop assuming and realise that the majority of those BAD comments (as you put it) are NOT from the Commenters Club members.
I think an apology is in order.
Now stop bitching and start showing us what you think should be classed as a good comment and make them yourself.
Also...I would like to add...that if you think it is easy giving great comments on ALL images...then think again...it isn't. But at least they have taken the time to comment. I think you will find that no members (as far as I am aware) took the easy route by Copy and Pasting comments. So instead of putting people down...how about you give them a pat on the back for trying to do something positive...!! Try it...you might like it!
 JudiBeautiful seen and captured. 7
Lowcivicman99It's pretty and the lighting is wonderufl. It could use a bit more sharpen and a touch up levels. Good luck
bassbonecool macro - good colors - i like the title
abrantonVery weird looking picture. Great colors & detail..frame is nice. Good job.
Lowcivicman99Sweet... I love dry ice. I bought some the other day to play around with the science challenge and I did some shots I didn't like, went to bed then work to come home ad find my ice was gone... hahhaa I forgot it had a 5 hour shelf life. hahah
pamelasueI'll second Kelly's opinion ... I think that the middle mannequin's face is too dark to really anchor the image ... overall I like it ... tones are fantastic
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06/24/2007 06:52:02 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by Artyste:
600 comments of "I love this" and "Great shot" and "I don't like it much" can't even *begin* to compare to 100 comments that go into at least *SOME* detail. If all a person *is* doing is leaving comments like the examples above, then please.. I would urge that person to let go of whatever false sense of accomplishment leaving 100% comments is giving you, and focus more on 40% comments that are 100% effective. |
Probably 50-60% of my comments are what I would consider constructive. And after I've left them I go back and look to see which ones are considered 'helpful', the percentage is kinda discouraging. Go back and look at the ones that are more intended to be funny or just 'nice lighting' or 'nice shot' or 'nicely composed' and the ratio is much higher. Now how does that fit in your grand scheme of things? If I've bothered to leave 'constructive' comments on so many shots, why should I be discouraged from leaving the rest of the comments? Why should anyone be discouraged from leaving any kind of comment? This is why I quit commenting so much so long ago...
Message edited by author 2007-06-24 18:53:36.
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06/24/2007 07:00:19 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by TooCool:
Originally posted by Artyste:
600 comments of "I love this" and "Great shot" and "I don't like it much" can't even *begin* to compare to 100 comments that go into at least *SOME* detail. If all a person *is* doing is leaving comments like the examples above, then please.. I would urge that person to let go of whatever false sense of accomplishment leaving 100% comments is giving you, and focus more on 40% comments that are 100% effective. |
Probably 50-60% of my comments are what I would consider constructive. And after I've left them I go back and look to see which ones are considered 'helpful', the percentage is kinda discouraging. Go back and look at the ones that are more intended to be funny or just 'nice lighting' or 'nice shot' or 'nicely composed' and the ratio is much higher. Now how does that fit in your grand scheme of things? If I've bothered to leave 'constructive' comments on so many shots, why should I be discouraged from leaving the rest of the comments? Why should anyone be discouraged from leaving any kind of comment? This is why I quit commenting so much so long ago... |
I'm not saying to *not* leave that type of comment.. Pete knows I do it all the time. I'm saying that it's *worth* stopping for a moment and considering what you comment and seeing whether or not you have become commenter in a "simple comment" rut. It can be both helpful for you as a commenter, and for the people you're commenting on.
That's all I'm saying. If you don't fall into the category of someone throwing down quick 'n' easy commenting *JUST* to get to some magical 100% mark, then it doesn't apply to you. If you *do* fall into it, by all means, continue the way you are if that's what you wish, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with trying something else that could be beneficial to everyone involved. |
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06/24/2007 07:12:11 PM · #11 |
If we were 'advertising' ourselves as doing something that we are not I believe you would have a right to complain. However all we are saying is that we have commented on 100% nothing more.
and what the hell is wrong with that?
Why would you want to stop people commenting? |
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06/24/2007 07:14:37 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by Shadowi6:
If we were 'advertising' ourselves as doing something that we are not I believe you would have a right to complain. However all we are saying is that we have commented on 100% nothing more.
and what the hell is wrong with that?
Why would you want to stop people commenting? |
Again, show me where anyone said "You can't comment anymore".
It was only a suggestion.. I believe suggestions are such that they can be listened to and applied, or ignored outright. No? If you don't wish to do it, don't? Something like that?
I can see how the wording of the OP could get some people's dander up.. but really, come on. :) |
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06/24/2007 07:17:05 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by Artyste:
Again, show me where anyone said "You can't comment anymore".
It was only a suggestion.. I believe suggestions are such that they can be listened to and applied, or ignored outright. No? If you don't wish to do it, don't? Something like that?
I can see how the wording of the OP could get some people's dander up.. but really, come on. :) |
No Artyste....the OP accused the incorrect members for making other members BAD comments on his photos. The members he spoke of DID NOT make bland comments on his photos as he states.
That is what got my dander up!
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06/24/2007 07:29:19 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by Judi:
Originally posted by Artyste:
Again, show me where anyone said "You can't comment anymore".
It was only a suggestion.. I believe suggestions are such that they can be listened to and applied, or ignored outright. No? If you don't wish to do it, don't? Something like that?
I can see how the wording of the OP could get some people's dander up.. but really, come on. :) |
No Artyste....the OP accused the incorrect members for making other members BAD comments on his photos. The members he spoke of DID NOT make bland comments on his photos as he states.
That is what got my dander up! |
If you read his post, that's not really what he says at all. He never once used the word "bad". He merely wondered, based on *his* feelings about the comments he was receiving, if there really was that much time being spent on all the photos due to trying to reach this magic 100% mark. Now, I agree that it was a bit dumb to just pin it all on "the 100%'ers"... but I can understand why. The nature of your goal leaves you open to concern... and to be truly honest, there are some members that fly through and aren't really leaving a lot of truly constructive commenting.. but c'est la vie.
To be truly honest, I *do* believe that some people taking part in this little 100% effort would be better served focusing on the type of comment they are giving, rather than the amount they are giving, and I for one think that something that could get people thinking about doing something a little different is a positive. Just needed to be worded so that it didn't come across so elitist and personal. |
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06/24/2007 07:40:12 PM · #15 |
No hard feelings and point taken Artyste. I will still encourage the members who are achieving their goals. Whilst most of them are doing their best to leave quality comments...I feel they deserve a pat on the back for attempting quite a daunting task. This feat really makes them step outside their comfort zone and leave comments on images that they would not normally comment on. And whilst a comment on such a photo may be stagnant...over time, as their confidence builds, these comments may become more constructive.
Whichever way you look at it...they are doing something positive for the community. I just wish more people would try it...! They too, might learn something.
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06/24/2007 07:48:43 PM · #16 |
| I did this once. Never again. I actually tried to give helpful comment on every photo, and it took me a week and was exhausting... |
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06/24/2007 08:00:09 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by jonr:
I did this once. Never again. I actually tried to give helpful comment on every photo, and it took me a week and was exhausting... |
Never is a long time! ;-)
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06/24/2007 08:32:15 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by jonr:
I did this once. Never again. I actually tried to give helpful comment on every photo, and it took me a week and was exhausting... |
But did you learn anything from it?
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06/24/2007 09:25:20 PM · #19 |
I confess, I leave "bad comments" sometimes. But, the way I figure it, it says "comments" not "in depth critiques."
"nice shot" is a comment. And after making some similar to that, let me translate
Nice shot = Not bad, but not earthshattering either. There are some things that are "okay" about this image, but there are some things that aren't. Actually, it may be kind of "boring," at least to me, but I recognize that others may see value in it.
That is why I have marked "nice shot" as helpful. I figure this is what they are telling me when they leave a "bad comment."
It is tedious and time consuming, but I did enjoy it. I'm on dialup, so I can assure you, at least two or three minutes is spent on each image, whether I want to or not.
a critique may take me five or ten minutes, but a comment, as I interpret it, usually should take less than a minute.
Message edited by author 2007-06-24 21:26:28. |
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06/24/2007 09:30:13 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by karmat:
I confess, I leave "bad comments" sometimes. But, the way I figure it, it says "comments" not "in depth critiques."
"nice shot" is a comment. And after making some similar to that, let me translate
Nice shot = Not bad, but not earthshattering either. There are some things that are "okay" about this image, but there are some things that aren't. Actually, it may be kind of "boring," at least to me, but I recognize that others may see value in it.
That is why I have marked "nice shot" as helpful. I figure this is what they are telling me when they leave a "bad comment."
It is tedious and time consuming, but I did enjoy it. I'm on dialup, so I can assure you, at least two or three minutes is spent on each image, whether I want to or not. |
And it is people like you that I do this for. You have gone out of your way to achieve a goal. You learnt from it. Would you have commented on all of those images if it hadn't have been for the Commenters Club? Would you have commented on those images that do nothing for you? Would you have been game to give honest critiques on other images? Would you have put yourself through countless hours on dial up to view and comment on every image in the challenge? And did you learn something from it?
You did this for a reason...and because of that...many benefited from you putting yourself through all of that and commenting.
I know we can't be expected to leave 100% outstanding, off this planet, helpful, informative comments. We are only human. But you tried your best...and that is all I ask.
So be proud girl....I am!
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06/24/2007 10:44:47 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by Shadowi6:
If we were 'advertising' ourselves as doing something that we are not I believe you would have a right to complain. However all we are saying is that we have commented on 100% nothing more.
and what the hell is wrong with that?
Why would you want to stop people commenting? |
Why the need to "advertise" in the first place?
Wanna cookie? |
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06/25/2007 02:47:06 AM · #22 |
I debated whether to let this thread die, but felt an apology might be in order.
I am a little surprised that my OP stirred up so many people. I never intended to step on any toes. Over the last 4-5 months, I saw a number of posts talking about commenting on all the photos and naturally went to look to see if I had received theirs. When I did, some were constructive, which is great, thank you. Many were not.
I never called anyone out for leaving "bad comments." I never named names. Never intentionally disrespected any photographer here or any initiative to increase comments. I never intended to insinuate anything about comments on other photographers' photos. I never intended to imply I never received constructive comments, because I do and I'm grateful.
But it did make me stop to think about comment volume and comment quality. All I intended to express was the hope that people making comments focus on giving constructive feedback and the feeling that the same time spent on fewer comments and directed to the middle of the pack, could make a big difference around here.
Thanks Artyste for defending my original post. Sorry Judi and others if I offended. It was not my intent. But I stand by my hope for constructive comments and believe there is a relationship between constructiveness and volume.
Now I can let the thread die in peace.
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06/25/2007 03:28:17 AM · #23 |
The gods had condemned Sisyphus to ceaselessly rolling a rock to the top of a mountain, whence the stone would fall back of its own weight. They had thought with some reason that there is no more dreadful punishment than futile and hopeless labor.
The Myth of Sysiphus
by Albert Camus |
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