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01/01/2004 04:38:57 PM · #51 |
Originally posted by Konador:
I think the camera skills will remain important. Composition, artistic imagination, lighting, a good eye, exposure, etc, will all remain vital parts of producing a photo. Also, there's nothing more satisfying than getting a perfect shot out of the camera :) Nobody wants to spend countless hours in photoshop polishing turds :)
I think what the rules will do if they become implemented, is even up the competition for people with lower-end cameras, as they can use editing to improve noise, etc. Neatimage chan be used now, yes, but not to a specific area of a photo, which is often needed. |
I don't see hardly anyone with low end cameras arguing for this though. It's mostly the DSLR and PROSUMER people that seem to be on the editing side!
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01/01/2004 05:11:10 PM · #52 |
"I think what the rules will do if they become implemented, is even up the competition for people with lower-end cameras, as they can use editing to improve noise, etc."
Thats where you are wrong.
What it will actually do is further the competition. The top of line cameras will PS a picture 100 times better then a medicore camera.
That being said, I can dodge, burn, clone and trasform the picture very well. And I have a great camera to do it with. I just think its a risky decision making everything a DR contest.
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01/01/2004 05:23:50 PM · #53 |
Why does it always have to be so black and white. Why can't we just get some challenges with editing and some without? That way we can practice both editing skills and photography skills. Everyone can make their choice in which challenges to participate. Wouldn't that be a reasonable compromise?
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01/01/2004 05:57:44 PM · #54 |
Seems simple to me....
1) Members Challenge - standard rules/standard weekly theme
2) Open Challenge - standard rules/standard weekly theme
3) Members Challenge - no theme, no editing rules
All 3 run weekly, having the #3 option starting on Thursdays
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01/01/2004 05:59:08 PM · #55 |
You will still have your challenges without the editing. Talk about thinking of oneself why is it that us oldies have to stay behind with you newbies or do we have to move on to another site to do that? Sorry but I love dpc and don't want to leave. Drew and Langdon are awesome and this is the best site out there. Thanks by the way, Drew and Langdon!
I can understand where you all are coming from, but you need to understand where us oldies are coming from. You can still learn to use your camera settings and work on composition, lighting and all that good stuff, but you also have the opportunity to use more editing. You would think one would be happy about that.
Originally posted by sn4psh07:
Originally posted by crabappl3:
I spent over a year here using the challenges to learn how to light, compose and 'properly' use my camera. I have won ribbons and have learned a lot. |
How nice then that you wish to deny others this same learning curve to satisfy yourself. Narrow mindedness or open mindedness???
Your words re-arranged like others do to me :) But still in context. Sorry but thats how I see what you said. |
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01/01/2004 06:13:14 PM · #56 |
Originally posted by sn4psh07:
Now that we are in January the rule set for December should change should it not? If this is the case, then may I present a possible option that may keep everybody happy: --
some people seem to like the new rules, other people do not -- so maybe we could have two challenges for members per week. One of these challenges could be with editing rules, the other without. To keep things simpler both challenges could be identical and members can submit to only one of the two.
It should not be too difficult to do, and I wonder if anybody else thinks that this could be helpful?
Looking forward to reading other people's opinions. |
Quote as to how I started this post hoping to satisfy all...
Sonifo you are dead right, hence my initial suggestion, after my previous suggestion (Pre-december) of rotating challenges was ignored. I don't think anyone should be held back and have suggested either multiple challenges or rotating challenges as a solution for this problem for some time.
We appear to agree deep down :) Just saying it spread out and differently.
edit -- added line after quote.
Message edited by author 2004-01-01 18:14:56. |
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01/01/2004 06:22:29 PM · #57 |
To sn4psh07:
hehehehe...well then take that. ;-)
Message edited by author 2004-01-01 18:22:49. |
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01/01/2004 06:41:29 PM · #58 |
Originally posted by PaulMdx:
The bottom line is I think DPC should be about actual camera use, rather than editing. There are plenty of sites for image editing, and none (that I know of) like DPC encouraging me to use my camera properly.
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Let's call it Digital Camera Challenge then from now on.
Photography is about the whole package, from camera gear to composition & exposure to developing & editing to presenting. It just doesn't stop at the camera level, not with analog photography, nor with digital photography.
Photography challenges are about maximizing all those aspects.
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01/01/2004 06:44:55 PM · #59 |
Originally posted by Azrifel:
Photography challenges are about maximizing all those aspects. |
And that's why DPC has thrived for almost two years with relatively minimal editing?
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01/01/2004 07:10:31 PM · #60 |
Originally posted by PaulMdx:
Originally posted by Azrifel:
Photography challenges are about maximizing all those aspects. |
And that's why DPC has thrived for almost two years with relatively minimal editing? |
It has thrived because it grew from setup to rule change.
For example: Have you any idea how much fuss (discussion, rules, disqualifications) we had about borders? They were illegal once -before we changed to the new DPC that you see now-, with the new dpc (as of 5 dec 2002) it could consist of two borderlines, each with its own single color and after that it was decided to let the border be free -any number of lines etc-.
That's editing too. A border can have such a big impact on how you perceive an image. A good border is not easy, I still don't know how to do it an I hate them.
But did the border changes hurt DPC? No way.
Did bordered images win all challenges? Nope.
Did bad borders hurt images? Yes they did. The photographers learned a lot from that.
What have borders to do with taking a good image with your camera? I say lets throw away the border rule, no borders anymore. It is in fact adding something to your image that has nothing do with it.
But, again but, borders did make a lot of images look better, many people learned how to add a border to their images and/or how to frame their prints. DPC would get worse if we took away the border the rule, at least, I feel that way.
The growth of DPC hasn't come without change. The border rules of the example surely has not attracted people like "lets go to dpc, because they allow free borders", but I hope you do get my point. It is also my opinion that adding a border is just as much editing as doing some dodging and burning or selective area sharpening (to avoid noise sharpening artifacts in the bokeh of cameras with cheap lenses).
Edit: I now see that I won my only ribbon when I used a border. :)
Message edited by author 2004-01-01 19:14:00.
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01/01/2004 07:30:17 PM · #61 |
I don't want to disagree too much - I think I've done enough of that already. I owe you a reply, however.
Originally posted by Azrifel:
For example: Have you any idea how much fuss (discussion, rules, disqualifications) we had about borders? .. |
I certainly remember. :-)
The thing with a border is, you're not actually changing the image itself. A border can't help my sloppy lighting, for instance. With editing, I don't need to sort it out, I can edit it in PS later!
Originally posted by Azrifel:
But did the border changes hurt DPC? No way.
...
The growth of DPC hasn't come without change. |
I hope that allowing editing also has a positive effect.
Originally posted by Azrifel:
Edit: I now see that I won my only ribbon when I used a border. :) |
Good shot it is too. :-) I like your accurate shot description.
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01/01/2004 07:36:30 PM · #62 |
Originally posted by PaulMdx:
Originally posted by Azrifel:
Edit: I now see that I won my only ribbon when I used a border. :) |
Good shot it is too. :-) I like your accurate shot description. |
Thanks.
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01/01/2004 08:17:50 PM · #63 |
Originally posted by Riggs:
"I think what the rules will do if they become implemented, is even up the competition for people with lower-end cameras, as they can use editing to improve noise, etc."
Thats where you are wrong.
What it will actually do is further the competition. The top of line cameras will PS a picture 100 times better then a medicore camera.
That being said, I can dodge, burn, clone and trasform the picture very well. And I have a great camera to do it with. I just think its a risky decision making everything a DR contest. |
Since when did cameras use photoshop? I didn't suddenly become a photoshop expert when I got my dSLR :P
Message edited by author 2004-01-01 20:18:32.
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01/01/2004 08:53:00 PM · #64 |
Originally posted by StevePax:
People who want unlimited editing are the only ones who are being open-minded. We accept everyone. You guys are the ones wanting to exclude stuff. |
This one cracked me up. I really did LOL.
That's like a home run hitting contest with aluminium bats. Barry Bonds would be open minded about it if Hank Aaron only had a wooden one. Thanks soooooo much for being sooooo open minded Barry.
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