A free study...er....study??? - DPChallenge Forums

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

06/08/2007 11:40:30 AM · #1

So I tried an experiment for this free study. I had a string of low scores and wanted to know if my editing was killing some of my photos. Also to see how much people relied on Photoshop skills in voting. So I entered a photo into the free study that wasn't edited....wait...I converted it to low res jpeg from raw and added a slight amount of contrast. And as you would expect it didn't do so well (although it did better than my religion score). So I decided to show what I entered into the free study and the first quick edit i did.

What I entered:

First edit:

I'd like to open this forum up:

1) comments on the differences and ideas of how you would have voted the edited version (good and bad welcome..I have tough skin as long as you aren't malicious).

2) how much photographers rely on photoshop as opposed to just photography?

3) How much voters expect photographers to use photoshop when they are voting?

Apple iPhone 5

06/08/2007 11:46:14 AM · #2

For me it's not the editing here that would influence my vote, it's the lighting and composition.

Okay, you've rescued it to some degree with post-processing. But it just seems a bit shadowy and dark. The centered composition is unusual... it gives a feeling of her being 'cramped' in-between the rock and the bush. Also, you've shot it from an angle that suggests an element of voyeurism (for want of a better word!)

All just in my opinion, of course.

UNTITLED

Canon EOS-20D

Tamron AF 18-200mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di II for Canon

06/08/2007 11:56:50 AM · #3

Your entry looks OOF, simply PP for that alone would have improved your score. Your PP version does look very nice, but I think for a greater improvement in score you might want to look at your composition. It's very difficult to get a centered photo that just looks right. When it doesn't look right people notice, they can't always put their finger on why, but they notice. I think your photo is really begging for an off-centered composition.

Don't fall into the trap that you have to use rules and guidelines, but just remember there is a reason they exist.

tjbel05

Nikon Z9

Nikon NIKKOR Z 70-200mm f/2.8 VR S

06/08/2007 12:01:22 PM · #4

The composition is what throws it off for me. The rock is very distracting, it takes away from the model. The lighting to the back right side is also a distraction. PP made the colors in the dress come out a little better, but the overall composition really doesnt generate any excitement for me.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

06/08/2007 12:08:15 PM · #5

The awkward composition is by far the biggest stumbling block here. That, alone, leaves the unedited version with a distinctly snapshotty feeling. The edited version is a measurable improvement. The darkening of the boulder, you see, actually improves the composition significantly, and the aggressive promotion of the shadows layers on a mood that's not present in the unedited version.

R.

kandykarml

Nikon D80

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

06/08/2007 02:19:08 PM · #6

IMHO, the thing that struck me right off the bat is your model has a look on her face that reminds of a teenager being forced to go to dinner with their parents when they'd rather be online chatting with their friends..

I personally didn't mind the composition but I felt if she was posed in a different manner and had an expression on her face that didn't look so snap shotty, then it would have been more pleasing to the eye..

Please dont misunderstand what I'm saying as an attack on the model.. She's obviously a very pretty girl and had a lovely dress on, and it seems to me this photo is what I would find "in between" real poses.. Just my take on it..

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Nikon

06/08/2007 02:25:06 PM · #7

First... beautiful model.

Second... post processing certainly helped it a bit.

Third... Composition is a bit awkward

I hope you don't mind but I did a simple re-crop and think it helps a bit.

ETA:

With a smidge of dodge and burn, you can move emphasis from the boulder to really shift it to the model.

(very quick and dirty edits)

Message edited by author 2007-06-08 14:29:57.

levyj413

Apple iPhone 15 Pro Max

06/08/2007 02:30:03 PM · #8

Heh, DowseDesigns, I would've cropped the other way, with her on the left and the leaves on the right. :)

The original is very soft. Remember that SLRs are MADE to be soft. The assumption is that people who buy them intend to post process.

Look at your settings; if you don't want to have to do as much processing, shoot in JPG and play with the contrast, sharpening, and other settings until you're getting something closer to the edited version right out of the camera.

As for scores, I would've voted the original 4 or 5, and the edited version 5 or 6. The composition, as others have said, was a problem along with the low contrast and focus.

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Nikon

06/08/2007 02:32:50 PM · #9

Originally posted by levyj413:

Heh, DowseDesigns, I would've cropped the other way, with her on the left and the leaves on the right. :)

Then she would've been leaning out of the frame. ;-P

levyj413

Apple iPhone 15 Pro Max

06/08/2007 02:36:25 PM · #10

Originally posted by DowseDesigns:

Then she would've been leaning out of the frame. ;-P

Good point.

Also, your lighting change really helps a lot! As a tip, I accomplish that kind of thing using soft light layers, which aren't permanent. You just paint white over what you want to brighten, black over what you want to darken, and adjust opacity so it looks right.

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Nikon

06/08/2007 02:38:29 PM · #11

Originally posted by levyj413:

Also, your lighting change really helps a lot! As a tip, I accomplish that kind of thing using soft light layers, which aren't permanent. You just paint white over what you want to brighten, black over what you want to darken, and adjust opacity so it looks right.

I've used that method, the one I used in the above example is similar but with an "Overlay" layer and the rest as you described.

levyj413

Apple iPhone 15 Pro Max

06/08/2007 02:39:57 PM · #12

Originally posted by DowseDesigns:

I've used that method, the one I used in the above example is similar but with an "Overlay" layer and the rest as you described.

Liar! You said it was dodge and burn. :) Yeah, overlay and soft light are very similar.

alexjack

Nikon D300

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G IF-ED

06/08/2007 02:41:16 PM · #13

Originally posted by DowseDesigns:

Originally posted by levyj413:
Heh, DowseDesigns, I would've cropped the other way, with her on the left and the leaves on the right. :)

Then she would've been leaning out of the frame. ;-P

Either crop works better than the original, but I think I prefer the wall/model vs the model/leaves. I agree with one of the other posts, it's important that you connect with the model, make her feel comfortable and expressing some emotion or the picture comes out pretty plain

(btw, keep working, your moving in the right direction)

Jack

bassbone

Nikon Z8

Nikon NIKKOR Z 24-120 f/4 S

06/08/2007 02:41:28 PM · #14

Originally posted by levyj413:

Originally posted by DowseDesigns:
I've used that method, the one I used in the above example is similar but with an "Overlay" layer and the rest as you described.

Liar! You said it was dodge and burn. :) Yeah, overlay and soft light are very similar.

06/08/2007 02:43:49 PM · #15

Originally posted by pccjrose:

OK boys - to your corners.....

My question to both of you, when using this paint thing, what type of paint do you use. When I tried acrylic, it wouldn't come off my monitor. Is tempera paint the one of choice?

Originally posted by levyj413:

Originally posted by DowseDesigns:
I've used that method, the one I used in the above example is similar but with an "Overlay" layer and the rest as you described.

Liar! You said it was dodge and burn. :) Yeah, overlay and soft light are very similar.

Watercolors.

06/11/2007 08:58:41 PM · #16

Sorry went on travel and missed half this conversation. Thanks for all those that commented. And I do not take any of the comments made as an attack. I like sparking discussions like this (if you ever seen any of my posts..lol.).

So I figure alot of people would complain about the composition. Everyone is stuck on the "thirds" rule and sometimes it's better to break out of the lines. Cropping the bushes out is nice, but it then takes her out of being in a remote location (for lack of a better word)....and the wall keeps her from being too far out of place (with her style of clothing). I wanted to keep her transitioned in a place not too civiled, but not too far gone. Dowsedesign, like your crop, but i would have came closer to cropping out the wall. Actually before I post the shot on the other sites I have I'll prolly crop out the edges of both the wall and the leaves where it's blurry there.

As for the look on the models face...you'd be surprised at how many times we've shot together and how playful we get. The thing is that we have so many playful shots, so many casual shots, and so many of every shot. We wanted more of a serious fashion shot. I'm actually surprised about the comments on her look. I thought she had the perfect look for this shot. Being a model myself, I think that is the perfect look for a fashion shot.

The focus could definetely be better...but too much unsharpen mask I think would have taken away the photo.

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8 VR DG IF-ED

06/12/2007 08:23:33 AM · #17

Oh no you ain't dying on me now..... BUMP!!!

Gatorguy

Nikon D700

06/12/2007 08:36:22 AM · #18

It seems to me that people gave you good suggestions and you are argueing for why you did what you did. All fine and well, but if the question is why voters might not care for something as much as you'd like, I think these suggestions were spot on.

If, on the other hand, you just want to be true to your vision, breaking rules, etc. etc., then why ask?

Dirt_Diver

Nikon D3s

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

06/12/2007 08:57:37 AM · #19

Originally posted by Gatorguy:

I don't think he is arguing with anyone about anything. I think he just wants more feed back to get a wide variety of information so he can compile it and turn him into a better photographer.

Canon EF 135mm f/2.0L USM

06/12/2007 09:01:26 AM · #20

Originally posted by Lowcivicman99:

I don't think he is arguing with anyone about anything. I think he just wants more feed back to get a wide variety of information so he can compile it and turn him into a better photographer.

I agree. I put in my $0.02 USD... anybody else?

lovethelight

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

06/12/2007 09:04:29 AM · #21

I edit ALOT. That is one of my favorite steps in the process but lately I have been makeing a conscious effort to be more careful when I shoot so I don't have to edit as much, especially when it comes to exposure. However, because a majority of my work is portraiture I take care to really clean up people's skin, which I feel is one thing that often shouldn't be avoided. Here are some examples of before afters of some shots:

06/12/2007 11:24:04 AM · #22

Originally posted by jclairemcphotos:

Wow those are nice. I try to clean up moles and scars and stuff like that, but don't go into much skin detail. I just discovered the heal brush about a week ago. Man that thing works miracles. I'm not that great at photoshop. I'm basically learning as I go. Actually everytime I shoot with this particular model (see original post) I learn a new editing technique. She was the first real model I shot with and the first one i shot with when i got my new camera....and when i got my new lens...lol.

Message edited by author 2007-06-12 11:27:59.