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06/06/2007 04:34:55 PM · #1 |
Frisca,
You said,
"folks..I'm locking this thread. We're all going in circles. No one's mind has been changed, the discussion is going nowhere, and tempers are flaring."
Though I respect your view I do not believe this issue is going no where and is therefore dead.
I'm certain that I have have not answered all those that disagree with me and want to. I think they want answers and deserve them.
More discussion is needed, especially with those folks like  chimericvisions who has asked many questions but have not had ANY specific answers.
In fact... I think that is part of the problem.
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06/06/2007 04:37:33 PM · #2 |
Originally posted by 'stdavidson':
Frisca,
You said,
"folks..I'm locking this thread. We're all going in circles. No one's mind has been changed, the discussion is going nowhere, and tempers are flaring."
Though I respect your view I do not believe this issue is going no where and is therefore dead.
I'm certain that I have have not answered all those that disagree with me and want to. I think they want answers and deserve them.
More discussion is needed, especially with those folks like chimericvisions who has asked many questions but have not had ANY specific answers.
In fact... I think that is part of the problem. |
Any users who are confused about the rules regarding voting on images where the photographer is known to them are welcome to ask SC either in the forums or in a ticket if they feel they'd like to keep their questions private.
And if you need to address those who disagree, you are welcome to through the PM system. I still don't see the need for this thread to continue. |
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06/06/2007 04:41:42 PM · #3 |
| Actually, I don't think I asked anything. I just made statements. :P |
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06/06/2007 04:44:08 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by chimericvisions:
Actually, I don't think I asked anything. I just made statements. :P |
As did I. |
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06/06/2007 04:44:08 PM · #5 |
| i will leave this thread open for ANYONE who has questions. If the purpose of this thread goes off track, I will lock it and ask anyone who wishes to continue speaking with steve about this, to speak respectfully with him private, or to send a ticket to Site Council. |
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06/06/2007 04:45:24 PM · #6 |
Please allow them to ask questions and be answered... closing the other discussion screwed up my ability to answer their questions there.
Will that be allowed here? If not then close it right now.
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06/06/2007 04:49:18 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by chimericvisions:
Actually, I don't think I asked anything. I just made statements. :P |
Sorry.. thought you and others had quesions and concerns.
If you or no one else does then I will shut up and this discussion should be closed.
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06/06/2007 04:51:34 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by macrothing:
How do you know which entries belong to your 'friends'?
It was and is directed to 'stdavidson'.
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06/06/2007 04:53:42 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by macrothing:
Originally posted by macrothing:
How do you know which entries belong to your 'friends'?
It was and is directed to 'stdavidson'. |
If you think this has anything to do with "friends" then you are wrong and so am I for persisting the discussion.
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06/06/2007 04:58:10 PM · #10 |
| Steve, he did put "friends" in quotes. Similar to the thread title. |
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06/06/2007 04:59:27 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by 'stdavidson':
Iâm a âFriend Voterâ⦠|
My question was in the context of your original post.
I would still like to know, if you are willing to also 'share' that information, how you know which entries in Challenges belong to your friends/students/ones you have taken under your wing/favorites/those you admire/whatever. |
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06/06/2007 05:03:13 PM · #12 |
Something that needs to be said:
If you send your photo to 30 of your friends, that happen to be DPC members, before or during a challenge with the hopes that they will vote you higher, that is pretty obviously a conspiracy.
If I see a photo that looks like Steve's style and is of a subject I know Steve has access to, and Steve is my friend, I should not be afraid to vote it a high score. |
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06/06/2007 05:03:31 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by macrothing:
Originally posted by macrothing:
How do you know which entries belong to your 'friends'?
It was and is directed to 'stdavidson'. |
Ok, I'll answer it straight up and honest since it wasn't answered that way originally:
People on DPC share entries with other people on DPC they know sometimes. It happens. It's not against the rules, but it's discouraged as a general non-rule. It's really not a negative thing as long as the people you are sharing with have ability and/or ethical strength either a) vote on that image the way they would any other image based on its own merit (This does not mean you *can't* vote it high, it just means voting it consistent with every other photo you're voting on in the challenge) or b) not vote on the image based on the fact that they know who's it is to begin with.
That's how people know a photograph is from a certain user. It is shared with them. Of course, the user might not be a real friend, but 'friend' in this instance is of course used as a buzz-word to encompass the general idea.
The other way is that you simply recognize a very strong editing/photographic style.
Message edited by author 2007-06-06 17:04:46. |
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06/06/2007 05:11:28 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by Artyste:
Originally posted by macrothing:
Originally posted by macrothing:
How do you know which entries belong to your 'friends'?
It was and is directed to 'stdavidson'. |
Ok, I'll answer it straight up and honest since it wasn't answered that way originally:
People on DPC share entries with other people on DPC they know sometimes. It happens. It's not against the rules, but it's discouraged as a general non-rule. It's really not a negative thing as long as the people you are sharing with have ability and/or ethical strength either a) vote on that image the way they would any other image based on its own merit (This does not mean you *can't* vote it high, it just means voting it consistent with every other photo you're voting on in the challenge) or b) not vote on the image based on the fact that they know who's it is to begin with.
That's how people know a photograph is from a certain user. It is shared with them. Of course, the user might not be a real friend, but 'friend' in this instance is of course used as a buzz-word to encompass the general idea.
The other way is that you simply recognize a very strong editing/photographic style. |
...and people go on outings together and recognize photos, or people live in the same area and recognize locations, or people live together and they see the photo... |
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06/06/2007 05:11:38 PM · #15 |
Simply responding to the original post....
Every concept you purported as wrong is in fact wrong and contrary to the goals of a site like this. I never vote on an image if I feel I recognize the photographer, the image, the setting, etc. It is wrong because even for those whose intentions are good, they will in fact be biased. I take an extremely cautious perspective, but I think you understand where I am coming from.
But you are advocating "friend voting" and that is not only ridiculous, but clearly grounds for 'suspension'. One of the objectives of DPC is in objectivity itself. Anonymity is valued because you are seeking to reward the best image in a given challenge, regardless of the "person" behind the image.
I enjoy your work Steve, but you have made an irresponsible post and one that is ill-conceived. I would encourage the SC to do their job. If you admit to cheating, you seal your own punishment.
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06/06/2007 05:12:43 PM · #16 |
| As stated in the other thread (sorry, I forget by whom) this seems to be a tool for attention. With the opening of this thread it seems to have been made true. PLEASE lock this thread as well. There is no discussion left, only bantering with one user stating their opinion and the OP disagreeing with it with the same, repeatedly the same, lame, unsubstantiated, and BIASED interpretation of a rule the general population of DPC seems to understand quite well. |
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06/06/2007 05:13:43 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
...and people go on outings together and recognize photos, or people live in the same area and recognize locations, or people live together and they see the photo... |
Well, this is true to a lesser extent, as in these cases there isn't always a *true* knowledge that the photo in question is from a specific user. (although that holds true with styles as well, as there are plenty of people that can mimic very well known styles effectively).
*EDIT* oops, that last one about living together and seeing photos is definitely true. lol
Message edited by author 2007-06-06 17:15:12. |
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06/06/2007 05:19:21 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by CEJ:
As stated in the other thread (sorry, I forget by whom) this seems to be a tool for attention. With the opening of this thread it seems to have been made true. PLEASE lock this thread as well. There is no discussion left, only bantering with one user stating their opinion and the OP disagreeing with it with the same, repeatedly the same, lame, unsubstantiated, and BIASED interpretation of a rule the general population of DPC seems to understand quite well. |
Oh really? I didn't read all the pages, just the original post. Did just about everybody disagree with him? My concern is if these actions will be tolerated and allowed to continue....
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06/06/2007 05:21:36 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by Artyste:
*EDIT* oops, that last one about living together and seeing photos is definitely true. lol |
Damn cats. I *told* them not to vote on my images. Sad thing is they always vote low on them.... |
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06/06/2007 05:22:17 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
Originally posted by Artyste:
*EDIT* oops, that last one about living together and seeing photos is definitely true. lol |
Damn cats. I *told* them not to vote on my images. Sad thing is they always vote low on them.... |
cause they are not in enough of them:) |
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06/06/2007 05:23:02 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by Cutter:
I didn't read all the pages, just the original post. Did just about everybody disagree with him? |
read the thread...yes, everyone disagreed. |
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06/06/2007 05:23:04 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by Cutter:
Did just about everybody disagree with him? My concern is if these actions will be tolerated and allowed to continue.... |
Yes and no, respectively. |
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06/06/2007 05:23:37 PM · #23 |
I asked a question about 3 hours ago and haven't received an answer.
Steve,
If you don't have an answer that's fine, but ignoring questions does not make them go away.
By asking the same question over and over again will not make the answer change to what you want it to be. |
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06/06/2007 05:27:38 PM · #24 |
I got this email from the SC just now...
"Dear Steve,
With the utmost regret, you have very clearly drawn to our attention
that you have been engaging in "friend voting," that is, consistently
voting abnormally high on the images of at least one other user in a
manner that is not consistent with your normal voting scale. In addition,
you have been receiving abnormally high votes from at least one other
user. Attempts to abuse the voting system in this manner are strictly
prohibited and as a result, you will be suspended from entering and voting
on challenges for a period of one month. This will begin today and end
on July 5, 2007.
After that point, we welcome your continued participation at DPC with
the understanding that you are to vote fairly on every image or refrain
from voting on images that you feel you cannot assess based on the
merits of the photo alone. In addition, you will use caution when sharing
your challenge images with other DPC voters, keeping in mind that any
sort of vote solicitation is strictly prohibited. Thank you for your
cooperation.
Please note, the voting we question is not giving your opinion on a
photo, but rather, that the votes indicate that you vote for the
photographer rather than for the image on a consistent and abnormal basis.
Your posts in the forums border the disruptive as they are not
fostering debate, but rather, advocate a flagrant disregard for the rules and
disrespect for this site, its honest users and the Site Council. We're
beyond disappointed. Please consider this a friendly warning. It is not
our desire to restrict your forum priviledges.
Please reply to this message if you have any questions.
Sincerely,
DPC Site Council"
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06/06/2007 05:29:56 PM · #25 |
I find this whole line of reasoning so disturbing.
Disecting rules for loopholes, statistical analysis, mentorship... unbelievable really. Where this suddenly came from I haven't a clue but I will add a cent or two.
It's been discussed so many times how little an effect one high score has on an average scoring image. UNLESS you Steve disclose your vote to your 'mentee' they have no way of knowing your generosity. So you tell them and they feel good, and you feel good and we all spread out the rubber sheets and pass the olive oil.
What's the benefit in developement? Zero. Nothing... and to insist that this is a realistic way of helping someone along insults the inteligence. Instead of searching for loopholes in very self evident rules, consider the intent. I suspect it'll be a cold day in hell before those penalized get any restitution. Just a guess of course. |
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