The K?D, what will it be like? - DPChallenge Forums

06/05/2007 03:52:20 PM · #1

Just want to start a dialogue to get your impressions of what a K?D might be like when it comes out. This would be an up scale DSLR and not an entree level camera. It will happen. This we know. But I would love to see who comes closest to the reality when it does happen.

06/05/2007 03:58:21 PM · #2

Well i was hoping for a K1D, but as option put it.... Hoya states they are not after the big boys and are going to focus on the mid level. Creating products with features unique to their level.

Message edited by author 2007-06-05 15:58:30.

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

06/05/2007 04:08:17 PM · #3

I think we will have a K200D or K20D, it will be aimed between the K100D and K10D. Probably a cut down K10D but retaining the weather/dust sealing and anti shake. It will be priced midway between both previous models. It will have the sharpness alogrithm sorted so that it matches K100D sharpness in out of camera photos.

There, that's my head on the line!

Message edited by author 2007-06-05 16:08:40.

Neil

Fujifilm X-T30

06/05/2007 04:43:46 PM · #4

I'd rather see them focus on some new ultrasonic focus zoom lenses!

I'd love to see an 18-200 superzoom better than the Nikon 18-200VR for a lot less money.
(And unlike the Sigma and Tamron, ultrasonic internal focus).

Think of what a cash cow that Nikon lens has been. And Pentax doesn't even need to add VR!

Or a 10-80mm F2.8 USM lens. What a killer that would be!

06/05/2007 04:46:13 PM · #5

A non Pentaxian has invaded this space....

IM KIDDING. Im a nikon fan but im going all pentax. My K1000, will be here next week. My *ist Qd 35mm AF should have it in a month and my K10d is coming soon after!

Message edited by author 2007-06-05 16:50:40.

06/05/2007 04:57:04 PM · #6

I was going to buy the K10D, but there were a few issues with sharpness, which were not present with the K100D, this was why I bought the K100D.

However, when these problems are resolved, I will upgrade. I had the Canon 30D, and the K10D was shown to be more than equal to it, barring the above mentioned issue. This is an issue I believe the Canon 30D also has, but they always state that their cameras always err on the soft side, so that users can alter their photos using PP. This was the cop out that confirmed my change from Canon to Pentax. I want my photo as sharp as possible, I also want the colours as accurate as possible. What Canon were saying was they couldn't be bothered!

I am sticking with Pentax now, the K100D will not be sold when I upgrade, it is simply too good a camera for that.

06/05/2007 05:01:29 PM · #7

You have been mentioning a sharpening algorithim. Are we discussing its JPEG sharpness? If not then i wouldnt be worried a damn bit. The Canon 400D supposidly isnt quite as sharp as some of the others either.

But all cameras in raw will be soft. Some dSLR's dont put out a sharp jpeg either but in the fact that theyre not designed to shoot jpeg.

I have read about the K10D's sharpness issue and i have also read about some other sensor problems on sites unlike dpreview which dont seem to have gone into it. Those problems bother me more then sharpness. I forgot already but it had something todo with pixel mapping.

06/05/2007 05:07:57 PM · #8

Originally posted by RainMotorsports:

The issue with the K10D is not that RAW is soft, cos that can be manipulated with PP, it is the edge sharpness in jpeg. This cannot be adjusted out with PS etc.

I will wait a while :)

06/05/2007 05:10:40 PM · #9

Originally posted by formerlee:

The issue with the K10D is not that RAW is soft, cos that can be manipulated with PP, it is the edge sharpness in jpeg. This cannot be adjusted out with PS etc.

I will wait a while :)

Well witht hat i wouldnt give a shit you want jpegs get an S5 IS lol.

I know I know. Yeah techinicaly they should be able to do a firmware update depending on how much of the jpeg processing is done by software.

06/05/2007 05:15:13 PM · #10

Originally posted by formerlee:

Did you say sharpness problems..Well have a look at this shot done with the 16-45 Lens shotin RAW. I have had Art Directors ask if I shot these in 6x7 100 iso Provia. Sharpness? No, not a problem:
//anashcreation.com/thenashgallery/BenjaminKanarek/judaismecloseup?full=1

Message edited by author 2007-06-05 17:17:07.

Sigma 35mm f/1.4 DG HSM for Canon

06/05/2007 05:18:24 PM · #11

Originally posted by RainMotorsports:

Originally posted by formerlee:

The issue with the K10D is not that RAW is soft, cos that can be manipulated with PP, it is the edge sharpness in jpeg. This cannot be adjusted out with PS etc.

I will wait a while :)

Well witht hat i wouldnt give a shit you want jpegs get an S5 IS lol.

I know I know. Yeah techinicaly they should be able to do a firmware update depending on how much of the jpeg processing is done by software.

So, you don't want a camera that is costing you more money to be as good as baby brother?? If I am paying more for a camera, it has to be better than what I have!! LOL?? Make a bitchy comment and add smileys! That doesn't work with me. Snidey comments show sarcasism missed you by a few miles.

Ubersteiny

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

06/05/2007 05:31:56 PM · #12

KD?

i totally thought this was about Kraft Dinner.

definitly disappointing...
But my girlfriend did make me KD for lunch today!

06/05/2007 05:55:52 PM · #13

Originally posted by benjikan:

Originally posted by formerlee:
I was going to buy the K10D, but there were a few issues with sharpness, which were not present with the K100D, this was why I bought the K100D.

However, when these problems are resolved, I will upgrade. I had the Canon 30D, and the K10D was shown to be more than equal to it, barring the above mentioned issue. This is an issue I believe the Canon 30D also has, but they always state that their cameras always err on the soft side, so that users can alter their photos using PP. This was the cop out that confirmed my change from Canon to Pentax. I want my photo as sharp as possible, I also want the colours as accurate as possible. What Canon were saying was they couldn't be bothered!

I am sticking with Pentax now, the K100D will not be sold when I upgrade, it is simply too good a camera for that.

Did you say sharpness problems..Well have a look at this shot done with the 16-45 Lens shotin RAW. I have had Art Directors ask if I shot these in 6x7 100 iso Provia. Sharpness? No, not a problem:
//anashcreation.com/thenashgallery/BenjaminKanarek/judaismecloseup?full=1

I don't doubt you, but reviews state that at 100% there is softness on edges. I can't say one way or the other if this is true, but I have always used review sites before buying any equipment. So, if they say that the K10D is not as sharp as a K100D, do I believe them?

Photos shot in RAW do not show this softness on the edges, this is clearly stated in the reviews. But, if I want to use jpeg, this same softness should not be evident in a 100% shot. It isn't in the K100D shots. It is a problem with the K10D, not a major one, but still a problem which shouldn't be there in an up market camera.

This is the main reason I will think hard before spending my money. It is very tempting nonetheless as the K10D is a great camera. I will wait and see what comes next from Pentax, but will not rule out a K10D in the near future.

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

06/05/2007 06:01:35 PM · #14

Originally posted by formerlee:

Originally posted by benjikan:

Originally posted by formerlee:
I was going to buy the K10D, but there were a few issues with sharpness, which were not present with the K100D, this was why I bought the K100D.

However, when these problems are resolved, I will upgrade. I had the Canon 30D, and the K10D was shown to be more than equal to it, barring the above mentioned issue. This is an issue I believe the Canon 30D also has, but they always state that their cameras always err on the soft side, so that users can alter their photos using PP. This was the cop out that confirmed my change from Canon to Pentax. I want my photo as sharp as possible, I also want the colours as accurate as possible. What Canon were saying was they couldn't be bothered!

I am sticking with Pentax now, the K100D will not be sold when I upgrade, it is simply too good a camera for that.

Did you say sharpness problems..Well have a look at this shot done with the 16-45 Lens shotin RAW. I have had Art Directors ask if I shot these in 6x7 100 iso Provia. Sharpness? No, not a problem:
//anashcreation.com/thenashgallery/BenjaminKanarek/judaismecloseup?full=1

I don't doubt you, but reviews state that at 100% there is softness on edges. I can't say one way or the other if this is true, but I have always used review sites before buying any equipment. So, if they say that the K10D is not as sharp as a K100D, do I believe them?

Photos shot in RAW do not show this softness on the edges, this is clearly stated in the reviews. But, if I want to use jpeg, this same softness should not be evident in a 100% shot. It isn't in the K100D shots. It is a problem with the K10D, not a major one, but still a problem which shouldn't be there in an up market camera.

This is the main reason I will think hard before spending my money. It is very tempting nonetheless as the K10D is a great camera. I will wait and see what comes next from Pentax, but will not rule out a K10D in the near future.

This is what I keep telling anyone that has a problem with jpgs being soft in high(ish) level cameras.. if you're going to shoot jpg with *ANY* kind of consistency, stay away from upper-level cameras. The K10D is designed for higher level shooters.. shooters that know how to take advantage of RAW and will use it more often than not.

The fact that you got a K100D because you knew you'd be shooting jpg often enough is awesome. Kudos on that. I'm so tired of very amateur people buying cameras like the K10D, and then writing scathing reviews because they have no idea how to handle the camera properly or use it to its potential.

Anyway, just a little venting. lol.

violinist123

Canon EOS-6D

06/05/2007 06:08:30 PM · #15

I don't understand the rant at all. The one time I shot jpg with my 30D (a minimal edit challenge), I experimented with the jpeg settings. If you bury the sharpness setting to the right, it produces disgustingly (over)sharp images. Did you change the settings? Canons DEFAULT setting is on the soft side. That isn't all the thing is capable of.

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

06/05/2007 06:20:02 PM · #16

Originally posted by routerguy666:

Who is it, exactly, you're responding to? *EDIT* Oh.. nevermind, finally found the relevant post. hehe.

Message edited by author 2007-06-05 18:20:37.

violinist123

Canon EOS-6D

06/05/2007 06:21:03 PM · #17

You? Formerlee? Seemed like a group rant going on there. I'm not understanding the complaint.

06/05/2007 06:23:10 PM · #18

Originally posted by routerguy666:

You? Formerlee? Seemed like a group rant going on there. I'm not understanding the complaint.

Well, I'm just bitching that it seems people have to find *something* to bitch about instead of learning to use any camera to its full potential and feel the need to 100% crop pixel peep instead of focusing on actual photography...

blows my mind.

06/05/2007 06:27:02 PM · #19

Originally posted by routerguy666:

You? Formerlee? Seemed like a group rant going on there. I'm not understanding the complaint.

His complaint is that his JPEG wouldnt be as sharp with thew supposedly better camera.

As i tried to say youll find many upper level dSLR's dont produce great JPEG's, and they dont have to and they shouldn't have to.

I think Artyste did a better job but... JPEG shooters are JPEG shooters and they buy D40's and stuff (Not a knock id get one but it doesn't fit my hand!). On that note sharpening jpegs to an extreme amplify artifacts so if your gonna shoot jpegs you need them to be somewhat sharp.

The K10D is no ferrari, but heres my analogy "You cant expect a ferrari to clutch well in traffic, does that make your civic a better car?" And the answer to that is for you maybe the answer is yes.

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

06/05/2007 06:41:21 PM · #20

Originally posted by noisemaker:

KD?

i totally thought this was about Kraft Dinner.

definitly disappointing...
But my girlfriend did make me KD for lunch today!

...You might consider a career as a stand up comic.

Message edited by author 2007-06-05 20:08:15.

option

Nikon D200

06/05/2007 11:26:54 PM · #21

Not the K10D jpeg issue again...

As routerguy stated, the fix is easy. The K10D has very neutral DEFAULT jpeg settings. Default setting that are extremely easy to correct, in camera.

06/06/2007 03:56:00 AM · #22

Originally posted by option:

Not the K10D jpeg issue again...

As routerguy stated, the fix is easy. The K10D has very neutral DEFAULT jpeg settings. Default setting that are extremely easy to correct, in camera.

I only shoot RAW so cannot relate to this apparent problem. I would just adjust the in camera settings to compensate for any JPEG over-under exposure issues or USM ones. Simple as that. This IS NOT a point and shoot. It is a DSLR. If you need a P&S that is the way to go.

06/06/2007 02:15:07 PM · #23

Originally posted by routerguy666:

You? Formerlee? Seemed like a group rant going on there. I'm not understanding the complaint.

The complaint was simply stated. I am not saying I prefer jpeg to RAW, I use both. What I am saying is that you would expect the higher priced camera to perform better than its cheaper baby brother in all areas.

The K10D jpeg does not sharpen properly using PP, this is a fact, whether or not I use jpeg. There seems to be a lot of bitchy posts here as to whether anyone who uses jpeg at any time should be using P&S.

It is not a simple case of compensation with USM or the like. It is a design error by Pentax which has not been addressed. Without naming names here, one poster is by his own definition a Pro? How many pros use Pentax?? Another poster is stating he uses a K10D, when it hasn't even arrived yet.

The original question was what would the new K?D be like, I said what I thought and hoped, and get a tirade of insults as to my ability to own or use a DSLR!! Let's just hope Pentax sort out the problem before the next version is released.

06/06/2007 02:35:23 PM · #24

Originally posted by formerlee:

Originally posted by routerguy666:
You? Formerlee? Seemed like a group rant going on there. I'm not understanding the complaint.

The complaint was simply stated. I am not saying I prefer jpeg to RAW, I use both. What I am saying is that you would expect the higher priced camera to perform better than its cheaper baby brother in all areas.

The K10D jpeg does not sharpen properly using PP, this is a fact, whether or not I use jpeg. There seems to be a lot of bitchy posts here as to whether anyone who uses jpeg at any time should be using P&S.

It is not a simple case of compensation with USM or the like. It is a design error by Pentax which has not been addressed. Without naming names here, one poster is by his own definition a Pro? How many pros use Pentax?? Another poster is stating he uses a K10D, when it hasn't even arrived yet.

The original question was what would the new K?D be like, I said what I thought and hoped, and get a tirade of insults as to my ability to own or use a DSLR!! Let's just hope Pentax sort out the problem before the next version is released.

I use a K10D. Jpegs are sharpen up just FINE. Better than fine in fact.

No, I would *not* expect the higher end camera to perform "better" than it's cheaper baby brother in an area that it isn't designed to perform *in*. Your problem is that you expect the K10D to be held to the same demographic as lower-end cameras. This is simply not true. The K10D is targeted at a completely different level of photographer than the K100D is. Fact.

The myth is that there *is* a problem. One can't simply go on reviews alone. I've, quite frankly, *never* had a problem with sharpening JPGs correctly out of the K10D when I've needed to. Neither has my friend that actually owns the camera, and she *only* shoots jpeg with it.

As for the original post... It seemed to me that you cared less about what the new camera would be actually like, than you did about it having to fix problems that most people don't believe exist in the current model.

Message edited by author 2007-06-06 14:40:37.