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05/22/2007 09:45:50 AM · #26 |
One of the reasons I posed this question had more to do with meditation and being aware of your awareness. In bringing this idea forward, my intent was to give the artist "photographer" greater insight in to the creative process and the importance of the decision to capture an image and what it represents.
Ben
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05/22/2007 10:13:27 AM · #27 |
| My thought process is "I wonder how bad this one will bomb?" ;-) |
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05/22/2007 10:27:53 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by tooohip:
My thought process is "I wonder how bad this one will bomb?" ;-) |
Oh come on..You're setting yourself up for failure by planting that seed in to your mind set...Stop that!!! If you say it will, it will. Read "Unlimited Power" by Anthony ROBBINS and "Evolutions End" by Joseph Chilton Pearce and you'll understand the importance of inner dialogue. I know, I have to fight those demons every day as many of us do. Set your sites and take the step towards accomplishing those goals. We are often our worse enemies. Believe in yourself. Love your self. Have respect for your self. Those ideals are the foundations needed to succeed in any endeavor.
Ben
Message edited by author 2007-05-22 10:29:49.
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05/22/2007 10:41:14 AM · #29 |
I do a lot of drive-by shootings where there is obviously no planning. I see it, it excites me, I shoot it. I suppose you'd call those candids.
Then I will see something that looks great to my eye and when I take a photo of it, it is not all that, even with editing. Those are the misjudgments. But of course, sometimes it works out well, too.
There is the scene/story that develops in my head. When I create it, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't work as well as it looked in my head, and sometimes the setup is too elaborate and I am missing means, expertise, time and chutzpah.
As you can tell, I'm still in a hit-or-miss phase as far as the thought process goes. |
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05/22/2007 10:59:24 AM · #30 |
My more successful images have come about in this fashion:
1) I think about the concept, theme, or storyboard in advance. I use this information to select the location and time of day.
2) I get the technical details (aperture, shutter speed, ISO, lens selection) close once I am on location but before I really start to look through the viewfinder.
3) Once the camera is up I try see the entire image in the viewfinder (sometimes hard with glasses) and react rather than analyze. I may adjust my exposure up or down a stop or two, but I don't make drastic changes.
My most disappointing images come when I try to make the image happen rather than reacting to it. The subtleties and nuance that make for interesting images are lost when I assert my own thinking over what is already happening naturally.
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05/22/2007 04:57:58 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by Nusbaum:
My more successful images have come about in this fashion:
1) I think about the concept, theme, or storyboard in advance. I use this information to select the location and time of day.
2) I get the technical details (aperture, shutter speed, ISO, lens selection) close once I am on location but before I really start to look through the viewfinder.
3) Once the camera is up I try see the entire image in the viewfinder (sometimes hard with glasses) and react rather than analyze. I may adjust my exposure up or down a stop or two, but I don't make drastic changes.
My most disappointing images come when I try to make the image happen rather than reacting to it. The subtleties and nuance that make for interesting images are lost when I assert my own thinking over what is already happening naturally. |
The sign of a truly intuitive artist I think...
Ben
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05/22/2007 05:06:16 PM · #32 |
I don't meditate before shooting. I have an image in my mind before shooting. I have practised Zazen for many years when I need to clear my mind or focus on something, but with photography I am allowing the camera to focus for me.
The image I take is not the image I visualise. But what I see in my mind is perfection, even my camera cannot capture the perfection I see. |
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05/22/2007 05:09:33 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by Nusbaum:
My more successful images have come about in this fashion:
1) I think about the concept, theme, or storyboard in advance. I use this information to select the location and time of day.
2) I get the technical details (aperture, shutter speed, ISO, lens selection) close once I am on location but before I really start to look through the viewfinder.
3) Once the camera is up I try see the entire image in the viewfinder (sometimes hard with glasses) and react rather than analyze. I may adjust my exposure up or down a stop or two, but I don't make drastic changes.
My most disappointing images come when I try to make the image happen rather than reacting to it. The subtleties and nuance that make for interesting images are lost when I assert my own thinking over what is already happening naturally. |
When I have a plan in mind, which is perhaps not as often as it should be, I tend to follow this formula......
Except that I usually start it, get through it--then look at my shots and realize that they really didn't have the impact I wanted them to have. Scrap the whole thing and find something else at the spur of the moment which ends up working MUCH better!
So, I guess for me sometimes it helps to plan out an idea and have it go horribly wrong :-) Then I've freed myself up from that idea and can let the camera feel what needs to be shot....does that make sense? |
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05/22/2007 05:21:43 PM · #34 |
wheres the sun? which building and streets will it hit? which will it miss? which direction should i walk? do i want lots of people or just a few? what music is going to make me "feel it"? how long have i got untill those bloody clouds cover the sun? am i feeling confident? should i get a beer? wide angle for these streets im about to walk down? can i hear anything about to happen? what angle are the shodows coming in at? is that person going to...click..
Message edited by author 2007-05-22 18:01:07. |
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05/22/2007 05:29:04 PM · #35 |
step 1 point.
step 2 click click click click click click
step 3 go home
step 4 delete delete delete - hey! one's in focus! - delete delete |
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05/22/2007 05:32:03 PM · #36 |
It tends to start with an idea or concept. Then I think about what would express the concept visually. By the time it comes to shooting, I tend to have a reasonably clear idea of what I want in my mind, I choose a right location, I vaguely go through the settings I'll use, etc.
And then magic things happen - when people model for you, they bring in their own interpretation of things along, and they move, and do spontaneous things, and the image in your head is brought to life and steps out away and beyond your control.
And then you shoot, and shoot, and shoot, and hope some of the shots capture the essence of the concept you were going for in the first place.
Other thoughts that tend to arise:
- Ooh, now what could I set on fire?
- How much paraffin do I have left?
- Work, auto focus, work! *prays to the gods of P&S cameras*
- Hmm, wouldn't a cup of tea be nice around this time. |
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05/22/2007 06:01:45 PM · #37 |
| A lot of my shots are ones I happen across. I do a lot of driving and often come across great scenes and shots. Needless to say, I usually add about 1/2 hours to my estimated travel time to get where I need to be on time). That being said I do sometimes have a pciture in my head and I will be on the lookout for that. One time I wanted a picture of a dirt road leading into a sunset and it took me about 3 weeks and 2000kms of travelling time to come across the right scene at the right time (sunset). So sometimes my thought process begins way before the photo, other times I just spot a shot and take it. At that time I basically think about composition and settings, and whether I can shoot it differently to apply it to a challenge. |
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05/22/2007 07:25:56 PM · #38 |
I plan for everything, and then I shoot the unexpected. Life is organic. Shooting should be too.
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05/22/2007 07:31:44 PM · #39 |
| For me the finished product is what I see first. Then I try to think of how I'm going to achieve it. Changes are made because I can't get the effect I want or technically it just isn't working. But I've noticed that the closer I get to the image I can see in my mind the better the photo scores. |
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05/22/2007 08:22:50 PM · #40 |
| I used to get a shot in my head, and then go shoot. I found that the images that look the best were all the ones that were diffrent from the ones that were in my head. So I give up and just shoot as I go. Which is probably why I can't get over a 5.1 lately. |
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05/22/2007 09:05:30 PM · #41 |
benjikan is right on so many different levels. Those of you looking for insight into a working professional's process would do well to give this topic much thought.
My process is different for every project - simply because each project has a different timeline and a multitude of different requirements for completion.
Generally, I dont think about the technicals until I've met with the lead producer for the project. Sometimes they have a theme picked out and sometimes its left completely up to me. If there is no set theme, then I have to decide how I want to approach the project based on the type of media, timelines, and market.
ONCE WE HAVE DECIDED THE THEME - that is when I look at how I want to go about shooting it. I have to decide how I want the final product to look and based upon my creative vision, it rapidly becomes apparent what I'm going to need to do and what I'm going to need to have on the set or location to get the job done.
So, back to the point, the technicalities of lighting, aperture, etc., are all completely based on how I want the end product to look. I set up the location and make a few tests to make sure that my settings are in the ballpark, but after that, I dont think about specific settings. Once I am actually shooting, I'm only looking at what I am seeing through the viewfinder and reacting to whatever I find there.
As Benjikan suggested earlier in the thread, if you are forcing yourself to think about the technicals while shooting, then you are possibly losing much of the creative process and decreasing the chances of getting a really candid and honest image. Granted, it takes practice to get to the point where you dont have to think about the camera anymore, but ideally, the camera should just become an extension of yourself.
To the OP: great topic and thank you for adding a professional viewpoint to this site.
Message edited by author 2007-05-22 23:21:35. |
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05/22/2007 11:14:33 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by benjikan:
Before doing a shoot, what are the processes you go through before making the decision to press the shutter? Have you ever thought about it? I ask this question, as I have come to realize that after over 25 years, I forget that I am holding a camera when shooting and only become cognizant of the fact when I put it down...
Ben |
Good, the kids are getting a bath. Do I have time to get the tripod or should I do without? What was my setup? Oh wait, that'll take too much time. "Yes honey, I'm busy fixing the thing-a-ma-bob! I'll be up in a minute!" Hurry, and shoot it before someone starts crying. Yeah, I got it. I'll download it at work and work on it. |
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05/22/2007 11:39:54 PM · #43 |
I mostly use the camera as an excuse to get my but out the door:
Where do I want to go on a day that looks like this?
When I see something that catches my eye I look at it through the viewfinder and see if it still interests me. If it does I think about what specifically I can show - something someone else might not notice on there own.
I have ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder, Hyperactivity, Minimal Brain Dysfunction, technical names dating back to 1974) with a tendency to hyperfocus, so I get drawn in to details and tend to miss the big picture.
I am currently working on backgrounds, stray objects at the "unimportant" edges of the frame. How much can an image support before it collapses on itself. Can I frame an image that won't need any cropping? (no! mostly not.) I like macro with low DOF, only the subject in focus. No destractions.
My thought process the last few outings. More self involved thah goal oriented (product oriented). |
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05/23/2007 01:25:10 AM · #44 |
I hate to admit it but I got my highest score on a photo I submgitted here, using my less expensive Sony DSC-707. I just turned over 10,000 clicks, many deleted shots with my Nikon D200.
The Sony could instantly go down to ground level or as high as I can reach. At each level, the lens pivots Up-Down, about 60-70 degrees. And I can still see what's in the viewfinder.
I like unusual, unconventional angles. Even with my 90-degree anglefinder adapter, and my ballhead tripod,I can't achieve such versatility, and instantaneous movements aswith the Sony.
Yes, there was learning curve, and for a while it seemed to really stifle my spontaneous creativity. The raw files, mega pixels, and better glass, is incomparable. It has allowed me to crop tighter and learn more Post-Processing techniques.
Cameras can convey feelings, messages, and stories, through photos.
I've heard many great photographers, use there gut feelings, and emotions to compose, and select elements. I concentrate a lot on Composition, Elements selected-and-eliminated, Distance and Angles of each subject. Then try several moods, by varying exposures/speeds. That allows for more choices of colors in post-processing.
Many times I use the what I call the Scattersho/Buckshot, methods,a.k.a. as bracketing. And also an abundance of variations in compositions. I think that out of a large variety I'm bound to find a few Excellent ones.
I say be like the inocent eyes of a baby, an go from there, but don't cry if at first you don't walk. |
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05/23/2007 08:41:34 AM · #45 |
When I started in 1980, I didn't have discernment a vocabulary or even a notion of which questions to ask, as these concepts didn't exist in my paradigm. As time went on, I learned how to be discerning and with this capacity I could make statements with more finesse and elegance, elegance being in the scientific domain i.e. "(of a scientific theory or solution to a problem) pleasingly ingenious and simple : the grand unified theory is compact and elegant in mathematical terms."
I specifically remember the day or the epiphany when after putting down the camera to take a break that I realized that I was not aware of holding the camera throughout the whole process and that vehicle was meaningless to the intended outcome other than it being an interface. That is all it is really. A physical interface able to capture a limited amount of information on a two dimensional plain.
With this notion well ensconced in my mind set, I felt empowered to do anything I so desired without having to be encumbered by the "Technique"..I would often freak out my assistants when popping the flash and squinting my eyes to increase the contrast or augment the perceptible differences between the shadows and highlights, I would say for example f11 at 100 iso...I would generally be right on or within a third of a stop. Why? After over a million shutter releases and flash pops, you can get the results easily with such a small variation of about seven to eight stops. Once the technique is mastered, you can really fly and be intuitive. Thinking about the shot renders a different result than intuiting an image. Both can be striking, but I believe the one that will become a classic will be the one that captured a universal truth.
Ben
Message edited by author 2007-05-23 09:23:07.
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05/23/2007 03:39:42 PM · #46 |
One of the hardest parts for me is figuring out how to articulate the thought process. It can get difficult finding the right words to communicate a concept or emotion. Maybe it stems from my own desire to understand people better.
And lately I've had an incredible urge to see the world, meet new people, and expand beyond my limited locality. Starting out, I never would've thought that the deeper I got into photography, the more I'd learn about others and myself. It's fascinating.
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05/23/2007 03:55:40 PM · #47 |
Hmmm...I tend to plant the challenge in my mind then think, how can I best do this? Do I already own props or have access to same? If I have to buy props or trvel, how much $$$ involved? Then I think how I want to shoot it.
In my earlier days here my shots tended to find me - ir for Gold last year I was rcking my brain (sorry, A key unpredictble) for something tht wsn't jewellery. I ws driving to client's plce pst fields of soy etc when one single field of sunflowers burst into view. I pulled over and shot.
But plnning to do a shoot can be fun too, ie I enjoyed staging my PEAS! shot - mking little Peaple, getting cocktail umbrella, cutting beach mt out of craft foam, making sand with brown and white sugar - then shooting on a hot sunny day.
Hope tis helps! |
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05/23/2007 04:45:15 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by m2iw:
benjikan is right on so many different levels. Those of you looking for insight into a working professional's process would do well to give this topic much thought.
My process is different for every project - simply because each project has a different timeline and a multitude of different requirements for completion.
Generally, I dont think about the technicals until I've met with the lead producer for the project. Sometimes they have a theme picked out and sometimes its left completely up to me. If there is no set theme, then I have to decide how I want to approach the project based on the type of media, timelines, and market.
ONCE WE HAVE DECIDED THE THEME - that is when I look at how I want to go about shooting it. I have to decide how I want the final product to look and based upon my creative vision, it rapidly becomes apparent what I'm going to need to do and what I'm going to need to have on the set or location to get the job done.
So, back to the point, the technicalities of lighting, aperture, etc., are all completely based on how I want the end product to look. I set up the location and make a few tests to make sure that my settings are in the ballpark, but after that, I dont think about specific settings. Once I am actually shooting, I'm only looking at what I am seeing through the viewfinder and reacting to whatever I find there.
As Benjikan suggested earlier in the thread, if you are forcing yourself to think about the technicals while shooting, then you are possibly losing much of the creative process and decreasing the chances of getting a really candid and honest image. Granted, it takes practice to get to the point where you dont have to think about the camera anymore, but ideally, the camera should just become an extension of yourself.
To the OP: great topic and thank you for adding a professional viewpoint to this site. |
Thank you so much for your illumiating input. I appreciate you taking the time to articulate the process from your own unique paradigm...
Ben |
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05/23/2007 05:49:23 PM · #49 |
As a hobbyst for three years, DPChallenge is my only client. If it were a real client they would dump me in a heartbeat as almost everything I enter is last minute with ideas only half realized. When I do have the time to shoot properly for a challenge I brainstorm several ideas and once I have formulated my own idea and how I want the end result to be I go and shoot.
When I shoot for myself, which is most of the time the idea usually remains in the abstract and more times than not when shooting the moment redirecting me into a new direction.
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05/23/2007 06:00:03 PM · #50 |
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