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DPChallenge Forums >> Business of Photography >> How to publish a book, model releases, etc...
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 05/09/2007 08:01:42 PM · #1
So I have a book idea for the future. I know my photo skills are not up to par YET and I would need years of images and work but I wanted to start collecting or at least praciticing for it.

I saw a previous post about publishing a book that didn't get many replies Thread Here and I wanted to give another shot at this topic.

Anyone know anything about publishing a book and what it takes?

Another big thing is my idea involved PEOPLE. Obviously I need model releases but I don't know how to work it if I ONE DAY plan to use them for a book for profit. Would you suggest I have to pay them up front or perhaps put in some sort of clause that they will recieve payment if I do make money off of the images?

Dunno. Basically have an idea and don't know where to go with it and would love to be pointed in the right direction.

Thanks!

Message edited by author 2007-05-09 20:02:22.
 05/09/2007 08:12:11 PM · #2
Monica,

If you publish a book, I would like to get your autograph.
 05/09/2007 08:21:49 PM · #3
Originally posted by American_Horse:
Monica,

If you publish a book, I would like to get your autograph.


hah. I realize it is a lofty goal.
 05/09/2007 08:51:48 PM · #4
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Originally posted by American_Horse:
Monica,

If you publish a book, I would like to get your autograph.


hah. I realize it is a lofty goal.


The loftier the goal, the more exciting the autograph.

Make me a happy,happily married, mid height, over weight, foo man choo mustache wearing, cop looking, half breed, average photographer, and get me my autograph.

Message edited by author 2007-05-09 21:30:23.
 05/10/2007 03:24:12 PM · #5
hmmm... no one knows huh?

I did some reasearch after posting this and didn't come up with anything that great... except for the fact that I could only find 10 books somewhat with my idea, and only 4 of them my exact idea... and those didn't look that great even... lol.

But other than that it was hard to find info on publishing. I did find one publisher that accepts submissions, the other one or 2 I looked at didn't.
 05/10/2007 03:37:00 PM · #6
I'll bite. I have been involved in publishing licensing for a long time.

First, the majority of brand name US publishers in the USA (call that mostly NYC which is the publishing capital) do not accept unsolicited submissions from authors. They accept submissions from author's agents and even when they spot a person they want a book from, the editor will require that person to get an agent.

Secondly, all the best literary agents are well oversubscribed and do not accept unsolicited submissions. They will ask you to get a reader's review and some professional editing work done first. You have to lever doors open sometimes and contact all sorts of people in order to get a foot in the door.

If you're not alive to reality yet and still insist on dreaming up a book, then you must either be mad or talented.

You'd do very well to fully research the market for your potential book first and find out how others in a like genre have done with regard to sales. Try searching Amazon's lists etc for all sorts of information you can compile and see how such books have been sold, via what channels, via what promotions etc. Once you understand who the book will appeal to and how much money it can make, where it will sell and how it can be promoted, you will have a better sense of whether this is a realistic project.

If it is, can you create it yourself? If not, then come up with the co-author or whatever needed. If you need third party rights cleared, you will have to contact each of the rights holders (of photos for example) and get clearance, at least tentatively, in advance of submissions. One-time fees for one printing are usual. Re-clearance of rights for subsequent printings is usual. You might be able to cut deals to reduce the time and money outlay on such items, but you might well have to be flexible. Having dealt with several top photographers in this country on rights usage, I can say it is sometimes a tough deal to make (especially coming in from the outside). But, as in all things, if you know what you want, you can save wasting people's time (which is money) and make a deal easier. Few things are given away free here...

Publishing with local regional publishers might be easier - but less exposure too and possibly less money. More approachable possibly.

Books don't make a lot of money. Very often they are regarded as publicity tools which help the creator to make money via other means - selling services, getting clients etc...

0.02 cents.

edited for clarity

Message edited by author 2007-05-10 15:41:14.
 05/10/2007 03:59:38 PM · #7
Monica, pineappleis right to a certain extent. Some years ago, I went through a writing phase and ended up with 13 novels. Being really new to the idea of publishing, I sent a full manuscript out to a publisher, it came back stating they were fully committed for the the near future and rejected it. After a few attempts like this, I gained a bit more info and began sending out a synopsis and sample chapters. Plenty of rejections later, I decided that I didn't want to be solely responsible for the decline of the rain forests, and shelved the novels, which I still have some 15 years later.

You will have a job getting an agent until you have published something, but you will have a job getting something published without an agent, Catch 22.

I can only suggest you start writing and gathering photos for the book, then when you have a good sample, starting touting it around publishers, many now take submissions(even unsolicited) on CD-ROM, but I warn you, they sit at the bottom of the pile for a long time. However, a few people have sent in unsolicited material and been lucky and are now published. So, if it's your dream and you really want it, do it and fight for it every inch of the way!!

Good Luck with it, Steve

Message edited by author 2007-05-10 16:00:41.
 05/10/2007 04:02:33 PM · #8
Or get famous and publishers will come to you. :P
 05/10/2007 04:34:48 PM · #9
Or publish it (and market it) yourself. That would be a smart way to go. If it is your money you're laying on the line, you will be pretty darn sure to research how you can make a profit from it. There are some reasonable possibilities out there with regard to self-publishing. You might well have to hire an editor though, as well as a page layout designer...

Formerlee is also right (to a certain extent). As I remember, John Grisham was rejected at least 13 times before he found a publisher.... and Rowling's agent (who I know) sold her first book over the transom, so-to-speak. There are exceptions to every rule.

Message edited by author 2007-05-10 16:37:24.
 05/10/2007 04:55:23 PM · #10
Originally posted by pineapple:
If you're not alive to reality yet and still insist on dreaming up a book, then you must either be mad or talented.



ouch! on the contrary I'm very realistic. I understand it's next to impossible. I still want to go ahead with the project and my make own personal collection, which was the point to begin with.... BUT I wanted to know what to do each step of the way (ie model releases) so I could be PREPARED in case I ever decided to make that leap.

That being said, as I stated, I found a few books doing what I want and if the cover is supposed to be representative of their best images I was not impressed.

I FEEL you SHOULD be highly talented to get a book published... BUT many... many books I see all the time are not very impressive or profound or anything of that sort. How does that happen is my question?

Any other avenues you suggest? Magazines? Newsletters? Etc?

I read up on self publishing and most every place I read said it was a terrible idea and you'd end up losing a lot of money. But since I don't have any money to lose in the first place I won't have to worry because I won't be doing it! lol.
 05/10/2007 05:14:20 PM · #11
Yep, I agree with you, Monica, vanity publishing is not the way to go. If your book is good enough, a publisher will take it on, so just keep at it. You could pour thousands into getting it published yourself, but just how many of your tables have wonky legs?? A few hundred sales and another few hundred stuck in the loft could bring the house down instead of raising the roof!!

Just do what you feel is right, you may be lucky or you may not, but at least you will have done what you wanted and proved to the world that you could do it. Who knows, 10 years down the line someone may pick up your forgotten project and WHAM! you are published and famous.:))
 05/10/2007 05:46:49 PM · #12
Another DPC member asked me some related questions which I PM'd a response as below. The question related to "when can I sell a book, before it is written? or after?" Might be some useful info there:

==

It's hard to sell a work by an unpublished author before it is finished. If, for instance, you have some samples of writing work done for a magazine, newspaper, literary journal, or some such media, then you could use that to reference your writing skills and the type of audience you currently reach. If you have nothing, then it's starting from the beginning.

The best thing to do before writing any work with commercial intent is to draw up a proposal for a potential buyer in which you explain who the readers will be, who will be interested in buying the idea, why it is unique, why it is better than other such works, and what other such works there are already published (or published in the past) and how they have been marketed and sold (well or not so well). Write the proposal for a buyer - then pretend you're the potential buying editor and look at it from a hard business point of view. If you can do that, you will have managed to do what a lot of first time authors cannot do.

If you can write a hard core proposal that sells ice to eskimos, then consider bundling it with a synopsis of the work/story, a sample of chapter 1 (perhaps) and a later chapter and send to an agent.

Agents you can find from a publishing directory or go to the Frankfurt Bookfair web site and search for agents or the BookExpo America website and do the same. Most agents have web sites and their they explain the submissions process. they're very picky and tend not to be terribly helpful about writing technique etc. That info you have to source from an editor. There are editors and editors. So good, some expensive, some provide useful reports, some not.

You then have to query the editor.

By writing a business proposal for the book before you write it, you might tend to get off on the right footing... and avoid writing something which has no viable economic market.

Hopes this helps. If you don't mind I will post this in the thread.... to save me writing again...
==
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