Score 5.99 or lower and want a critique? 04/28/07

05/02/2007 02:43:57 PM · #26

Originally posted by hihosilver:

Positives:
Sterling technical quality, including the blue color cast, is the strength of this image. Would make a good stock picture for telecommunications. The mottled lighting on the ATT building and reflections off the buildings add nice viewer interest to the composition.

Technicals:
Overall technical quality is top notch, particularly given this is done under basic rules. Sharpness is perfect, color processing excellent, framing left to right, top to bottom is just right.

Telecommunications tower MAY be titled slightly counterclockwise to the vertical, but is probably unnoticeable to most viewers.

The Challenge:
Nicely meets the challenge topic, particularly since the lighting on the tower differs from the rest of the image and better highlights its rule of thirds positioning.

At 5.87 it scored about .3 above the challenge average and almost .5 above the DPC average score given to all images in all challenges. That means voters think this image is above average but nothing special.

I scored this image a 10 and would do it again any day of the week and twice on Sundays. The reason is simple, when looking at an image like this the last question I always ask is, "Is there anything wrong with this picture?" If the answer to that question is "No" or a resounding "No" as it is for this image then it gets a "10" from me. "10" means "good" and this is certainly a "good" image. It has no significant faults and is very well post processed.

Suggestions:
No suggestions except perhaps a slight clockwise rotation of the ATT tower.

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Editorial: Leveling the Horizon
Looking at this image raises the question just what leveling the horizon really means. Perception combined with reality are your best guides. Obviously there is no actual horizon to level here and camera angle and lenses used both play a huge roll in perception of leveling.

Looking at this image we can see that on the left side the "vertical" lines tilt inward and on the the right side they tilt inward to. That is impossible and due to distortion introduced by the lens.

So what to do? In advanced rules you can correct for the lens distortion, but in basic you can't. In this case you have to make a decision based on the individual image and how it looks when you try. Given the challenge topic and main subject then making the telecommunications tower vertical is worth considering. That will mean a slight clockwise rotation to make the tower "striaght".

Overall it will matter little with this particular image but worth keeping in mind for the future.

End Editorial
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05/02/2007 03:19:29 PM · #27

Originally posted by bubeltrubel:

Positives:
Nice composition of two well positioned insects standing on a folded over grass blade. The curve of the grass blade adds pleasant visual interest to the image.

Technicals:
Like most images in the challenge it has center framing which is understandable. There are several major technical flaws in this image. 1-The noise in the soft background is a major distraction. 2-The yellow blob to the upper right that is slightly overexposed distracts from the insects and draws the eye away. 3-The sharpening haloing around the insects is another major distraction.

The Challenge:
Meets the challenge well with multiple insects.

It scored 5.92 in a challenge that averaged a score given of 5.7. Both are significantly above the average score given at DPC which is just under 5.4. The higher average is likely because voters were rewarding minimal editing compositions with higher than normal scores. In addition to that, voters felt yours was even better.

This is unusual for me but I scored your image lower than the group. I gave your image a 5. That is bad. It means I would be failing it if it were an assigment that I graded. Under normal conditions it is HIGHLY unusual for me to score an image lower than the group. My norm is to score 2 or more points HIGHER than the group average.

Because I only take about 1/2 second to vote I can and do make mistakes sometimes. However, after a much closer review, I find the vote I gave was not a mistake this time.

Suggestions:
Addressing the three main technical issues I identified above would improve it dramatically. Because it is minimal editing no sharpening and/or applying less in-camera sharpening would take care of most of the noise and haloing issues. You would have to reshoot to remove the yellow blob. If you could compose the image off center it would also be an improvement, perhaps by rotating the camera slightly to the right to have the grass blade coming into the frame even moreso that it already is.

smardaz

05/02/2007 03:26:07 PM · #28

05/02/2007 04:03:30 PM · #29

Originally posted by dcb300:

Oh, Diane, you are killing me... just killing me!

Positives??????:
I have a rule that if there isn't anything positive I can say about an image then I shouldn't say anything at all. That is the case with this image. But you have asked and we talked about your photography and I know you want to do better, so I will just tell it like it is.

Technicals:
Outside that there are no seriously over or underexposed areas in the picture, there is little that is technically good about it. Color noise is a problem, sharpness is off and much needed post processing looks to be non-existent. The choice of subject and arrangement are probably boring or amature-ish looking to most voters. The digits aren't even properly arranged.

The Challenge:
More bad news. This complete fails to meet the challenge. You'll need instruction to learn more about the rule of thirds. Hopefully you can get into a Photoshop 101 class or get other mentoring to learn about it.

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The Rule of Thirds Example:
My entry in the rule of thirds challenge scored HORRIBLY, but it is a better example of rule of thirds than most of the other entries:

Notice that the center of the clover is offset to the lower left side. If you measured it accurately you will see that the centerpoint of the clover is exactly 1/3rd the way across the image from the left edge to the right and also 1/3rd the way up from the bottom to the top. That is called the lower left rule of thirds intersection point and is a very powerful compositional tool. There are three other equally powerful rule of thirds intersection points you could use in your compositions.

What makes this particularly strong for the rule of thirds is the clover's leaves accurately branch in an eye catching set of spokes from the lower left rule of thirds intersection point and the clover is the main subject of the composition.

End Example
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Suggestions:
Through mentoring DPCers will be able to help you to work on your photography for more satisfying submissions in future challenges. :)

Message edited by author 2007-05-02 16:04:32.

05/02/2007 04:16:58 PM · #30

Originally posted by smardaz:

Hmmmmm.. I see you are #12 in line so you only get a quick comment. :(

First... I have GOT to get to Snoqualmie Pass and I'm DYING to photograph Snoqualmie Falls which is the second highest rated waterfall in the Pacific Northwest.

Cutting to the chase... this is a terrific, terrific backdrop but needs a main subject... a boat with people in it or birds or nice foreground vegetation or combination of things to act as a main subject. Do that and it will get a higher score.

Pentax FA 77mm f/1.8 Limited AF

05/02/2007 04:32:51 PM · #31

Originally posted by jprhea25:

...Taking photographs for the "unwashed masses" (as one of my instructors used to refer to them as) might put food on the table but it dose little to feed the soul. *grin*

That may be true but if you believe in your craft and want to connect to your audience in a meaningful, lasting way then you need to get your hands "dirty".

Originally posted by jprhea25:

For the record I noticed voting seemed a little off when I first signed up on DPC. ...

[b]I admit I fell into the "5-6 is average" range of voting myself at first.
Now I approach voting from a 100 point scale, which makes 50-60 an "F-D" on the grading scale (and I see very few "F"s in most of these challenges) and I know very few people who would accept getting a "D" or an "F" as an acceptable grade. I have started giving photos a letter grade first and then voting with an appropriate number

For the record your new grading scale EXACTLY matches mine.

However, in the beginning I made 10s of thousands of votes specifically geared to exactly match how everyone else votes before I got "religion", so now my overall average score given is low and does not reflect my current philosophy.

eamurdock

Pentax KP

05/02/2007 05:51:26 PM · #32

Steve -

thanks for the great advice, as always... I was delighted to get in on the action this time!

I'm interested to see how my shooting style doesn't fit the DPC voting ideals, which is ok (my symmetry entry, which I like a lot and will continue to, is currently getting hammered at 5.37); but it adds another wrinkle to my shooting - learning how to shoot for the audience, in addition to myself. So while I don't always feel the need to do that, I think it's good to have that little bit of pressure pushing me in another direction.

jprhea25

Nikon D80

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 18-135mm f/3.5- 5.6G ED DX

05/02/2007 06:32:04 PM · #33

Originally posted by jprhea25:

...Taking photographs for the "unwashed masses" (as one of my instructors used to refer to them as) might put food on the table but it dose little to feed the soul. *grin*

Originally posted by stdavidson:

That may be true but if you believe in your craft and want to connect to your audience in a meaningful, lasting way then you need to get your hands "dirty".

Agreed, but getting dirty for them and getting dirty for my own self expression is the difference between craft and art I guess.

Originally posted by stdavidson:

Cool, thanks again.

I think it's funny that my current entry in the Pi II challenge is scoring around a 3.9
Granted this a last minute inspiration that I snapped hurriedly before I lost what light was available, but I would have given it alt least a 5. ;-)

hihosilver

Nikon D200

Nikon AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 28-70mm f/2.8D IF-ED

05/02/2007 10:58:55 PM · #34

Steve, Dear...

Thank you SO MUCH for your generous critique. (I hope you put that $100 bill I gave you to good use?!!! j/k...Hehehe!)

Truly, you amaze me with every single one of your critiques. I will certainly learn to adjust my perspective and straighten up those lines!
::Flips open CS2 study guide::

Quite simply, you are the BEST!

teto

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

Canon EF 35-80mm f/4.0-5.6 III

05/02/2007 11:14:12 PM · #35

//dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=501963

Message edited by author 2007-05-02 23:22:09.

Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM

05/02/2007 11:36:43 PM · #36

You are #13 in line so only get a comment and not a real critique. :(

For doing nothing to it but sharpening it is a nice composition. Light and shadow look good. The DOF is enough to make a soft background but not so much that those nice flowers get lost. Unfortunately your sharpening created some digital "jaggies" and haloing around the ball. You can't do this in basic but under advanced rules you could either mask out and/or clone out those effects and still retain the nice sharpness of the rest of the image.

Kliopatra

Acer CR-6530

05/03/2007 05:53:51 PM · #37

Originally posted by Kliopatra:

//dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=497693
please critique my first entry photo,thanks

I'm disappointed stdavidson, U skiped my photo and critique other photo, Why?

Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM

05/03/2007 06:23:35 PM · #38

Originally posted by Kliopatra:

Originally posted by Kliopatra:

//dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=497693
please critique my first entry photo,thanks

I'm disappointed stdavidson, U skiped my photo and critique other photo, Why?

Whoa! Bummer! Bad Steve... Bad, Bad Steve!

I have no idea why I skipped yours. I take them in the order of entry and yours simply got missed.

I can't now but will complete your critique later tonight so you will have it tomorrow.

Please accept my appologies.

Message edited by author 2007-05-03 18:25:48.

Kliopatra

Acer CR-6530

05/03/2007 06:52:50 PM · #39

I'm disappointed stdavidson, U skiped my photo and critique other photo, Why? [/quote]
Whoa! Bummer! Bad Steve... Bad, Bad Steve!

I have no idea why I skipped yours. I take them in the order of entry and yours simply got missed.

I can't now but will complete your critique later tonight so you will have it tomorrow.

Please accept my appologies. [/quote]

Appologies accepted, Thanks for ur effort

05/04/2007 11:18:42 AM · #40

Originally posted by Kliopatra:

please critique my first entry photo,thanks

Welcome to DPC, kliopatra from Egypt! Hope you have a great time at DPC and learn a lot.

Positives:
The reflection of clouds and grasses in the calm water surrounded by lily pads is the the best part of this image. Showing the expanse of lily pads is good as well.

Technicals:
Generally speaking the technical quality of this image needs work. On a sharpness sensitive LCD monitor it is slightly over sharpened and shows some "jaggies" along the edges of the blades of grass but no haloing.

It is taken from a "snapshot" perspective, the green color is weak and the image lacks a central theme and a specific object for the viewer to look at and focus on. It leaves the viewer asking, "What else is there?". Your image is like a nice background without a subject.

The Challenge:
This particular landscape challenge operated under expert rules and because of that voters had a higher level of expectation for technical quality than other challenges and that hurt your image in scoring. Yours is also not a classic landscape vista and some voters probably faulted you for that as well.

You scored 5.1 which is about .6 below the average score given for the challenge. That means voters felt it was below average. I agreed and gave your image a 6 which to me means below average but not a complete falure. I tend to score higher than the group, that is all. I agree with the group assessment.

Suggestions:
There is lots you can do to improve this image but will probably require reshooting. The main thing is perspective and composition. You might consider a much closer up picture to the grasses and lily pads taken from a shallower angle, say 15 degrees or less to the horizontal, maybe even show some sky. Then compose the picture such that one of the grasses and/or lily pads become dominent objects in the composition and serve to attract more viewer attention. Be sure to retain the nice refections you have in your submission. Darkening the greens may be more pleasing and attractive to the eye and adding some dodge and burn to give it more depth and adding a subtle darkening vignette around the whole composition might look nice.

You might want to study some of the top finishing images in challenges to get an idea what viewers like. If you live in Giza where this picture was taken then I'm sure you can find a lot of great landscape subjects to photograph.

Good luck and have fun!